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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s like a fire, when it’s small you can stamp it out but when it really gets raging in a community the only way it’s going to stop is when it burns itself out.

Yeah, the following maps are taken from a BBC article  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51858987

We're supposedly lagging Italy,  and this is already a week old, but the virus was clearly out of control in Lombardy

image.png.18cadd33e5663b5490db3287171265bf.png

image.png.aeb82289bfe0c755f79cf24b938def20.png

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Just now, Van wink said:

It’s not about young or old or vulnerable or sick or stupid, it’s about our community, and that’s what I see, community spirit growing and strengthening. Some good will come of this, eventually.

I think it will lead to changes and there has been some great community spirit and altruism. But,  starting in the cities, I see real problems ahead. 

There are many, many elderly who will not help themselves. One is the PM's father. But overall, this is disproportionately damaging to the young in every sense but medical and there will be a backlash. 

I hate intergenerational issues, but they have become the new form of bigotry. 

Coronavirus measures risk stoking them. 

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Not sure if Wetherspoon's Tim Martin's comments earlier today were red rag to a bull, or if he had forewarning of what was coming, but pubs, cafes and restaurants to close overnight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51981653

With the supermarkets having big issues with food availability, places that still did food needed to be part of the solution.

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Interesting and highlights that just maybe the figures being quoted are just a little misleading.

The protection for the nhs is of course a required to prevent massive numbers of critical care at the same time, but with the massive financial and stress related consequences is this really going to prevent that many deaths of those really fragile?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

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8 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

Not sure if Wetherspoon's Tim Martin's comments earlier today were red rag to a bull, or if he had forewarning of what was coming, but pubs, cafes and restaurants to close overnight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51981653

With the supermarkets having big issues with food availability, places that still did food needed to be part of the solution.

Fake news. There is no problem with food availability. There is only some delays and disruption due to unnecessary panic buying not assisted by irresponsible comments on social media. 

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42 minutes ago, Indy said:

Interesting and highlights that just maybe the figures being quoted are just a little misleading.

The protection for the nhs is of course a required to prevent massive numbers of critical care at the same time, but with the massive financial and stress related consequences is this really going to prevent that many deaths of those really fragile?



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

I fully agree with measures to stop the health service being overwhelmed but even in the worst case scenario with no measures deaths would be less than the normal average death rate. the majority of whom are frail with underlying health problems so some will have died in any case. It is very serious but it should also be seen in context. 

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Is it just me that finds Sky’s reporting from Italy slightly tacky ? I’m sure they would say they’re just showing us how it is but Sky reporters always seem to make it a bit about them don’t they ?

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9 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

Not sure if Wetherspoon's Tim Martin's comments earlier today were red rag to a bull, or if he had forewarning of what was coming, but pubs, cafes and restaurants to close overnight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51981653

With the supermarkets having big issues with food availability, places that still did food needed to be part of the solution.

A couple of pubs near me are now doing a takeaway service. Although a sunday roast from a polystyrene box is not as appealing as sitting in a cosy boozer, their service is welcome.

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1 hour ago, T said:

I fully agree with measures to stop the health service being overwhelmed but even in the worst case scenario with no measures deaths would be less than the normal average death rate. the majority of whom are frail with underlying health problems so some will have died in any case. It is very serious but it should also be seen in context. 

As a soulless economist only interested in the financial side of life it’s no surprise to see you take this stance.

Context is a great thing if if doesn’t affect someone near and dear to you.

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47 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

As a soulless economist only interested in the financial side of life it’s no surprise to see you take this stance.

Context is a great thing if if doesn’t affect someone near and dear to you.

i fully understand your sentiment when I read an FT headline which focuses on the economic rather than human impact but economic impacts also have human impacts  Economic impacts ultimately determine the resources available for food accommodation and healthcare  

Im sure most of us will have experienced death at sometime Some of it tragic as I have experienced. It is very tough. . It is also a harsh reality of the human condition. Over half a million people die in the UK every year.  There is war and disease constantly around the world. We as a society make decisions about the amount that we are willing to spend on healthcare and the elderly all the time. Ultimately it is economic activity that pays for healthcare. 
 

Im living in a disaster zone in lock down and fully support the measures but grocery disruption  are not necessary and caused by foolish inconsiderate behaviour People do die all the time without other people caring what is happening in the rest of the world. And the world has decided that economic activity is necessary to feed and house themselves. Yes it is tough but it is also reality. These are the decisions government and society has to make all the time but just because they are unpleasant does not mean they are not necessary. It is just reality and it doesn’t go away because people don’t like it. 

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With up to 80pc. expected to get this long term at some point we are all going to experience this personally. Vast majority will not even notice or mild. Many hospitalised and some very sadly before their time. 

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Critical care beds per 100,000 population:

Italy 12.5

Germany 29.2

Europe average 11.5

Britain 6.6

Says it all really.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:

Not sure if Wetherspoon's Tim Martin's comments earlier today were red rag to a bull, or if he had forewarning of what was coming, but pubs, cafes and restaurants to close overnight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51981653

With the supermarkets having big issues with food availability, places that still did food needed to be part of the solution.

Are they issueing food now ?

Who get's a big issue, the man stood next to the supwr market selling a magazine ?

The supermarkets have to much control over us

I was offered a bag for lfe a few months back

how do they know how long I am going to live ?

I did try to get an extra sturdy one, ...you never know

every little helpsi

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Critical care beds per 100,000 population:

Italy 12.5

Germany 29.2

Europe average 11.5

Britain 6.6

Says it all really.

 

 

 

 

I've always been quite proud of the NHS. But a GP friend of mine pointed out to me last week that France, Germany and Italy have better health systems. He asked why no other countries have copied the NHS. Hmmm. 

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Posted (edited)

My dad died in 2002, about a month before Christmas.  He'd just turned 77, had advanced cancer and winter was upon us.  A chest infection of some kind did for him.  I was very sad and still miss him, but quite honestly it was a happy release.  I daresay that many of those taken by the virus are in a similar situation.  Handwringing is really not appropriate.

 

Edited by benchwarmer

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9 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I've always been quite proud of the NHS. But a GP friend of mine pointed out to me last week that France, Germany and Italy have better health systems. He asked why no other countries have copied the NHS. Hmmm. 

I love the NHS as it has saved and helped so many people, myself included, and when you are properly ill it is second to none but it has problems, some fixable, some down to human error but a lot to do with political interference.

1. A party gets into power, brings in new ways of doing things and before the NHS can implement them, the government changes and the new lot bring in another way of doing things.

Have an all party long term plan and stick to it. Only change things if really necessary.

2. Have a strict problem reporting regime like the airline industry. No covering up mistakes and accidents so they can't happen again.

3. People want a first class service but only want to pay a third class fee. Think about how much private health care would cost you if the NHS goes. Properly fund it.

4. Some people need to stop misusing it.

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5 hours ago, T said:

Fake news. There is no problem with food availability. There is only some delays and disruption due to unnecessary panic buying not assisted by irresponsible comments on social media. 

And phrases like 'Lockdown' ..an overdramatic soundbite, looks great in headlines but is just the kind of word to get the public panic buying. People with any experience of crisis management should choose their words more carefully. 

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Fair comment. The official translation of what I’m living under is curfew and disaster zone and state of emergency but strict movement controls would be a better translation of the reality.
 

My point was however you term it is that I’m living under stricter restrictions than the UK but. im still able to shop and work normally.  Places with stricter controls than the UK are still functioning fine in respect of essentials and therefore people can be reassured that panic buying is not necessary. in fact the BBC is just reporting that countries with stricter movement controls are not seeing the panic buying seen in the UK consistent with my personal experience and what is the news. It’s interesting why the UK are experiencing more unnecessary panic buying than other countries with stricter controls. Please be reassured  that countries further ahead in the curve are still functioning fine on the essentials. 

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absolutely useless

just back from Sainsburys -only wanted milk, shelves pretty much cleared

watched a couple put through about 8 packets of ground coffee, checked as I went to get milk, they must have taken what was left

I asked the woman looking after the tills what checks they were doing on bulk buying

none it would seem, as 'someone has to buy it' 🙄

but they have put yellow and black warning tape on the floor around the tills so people can stand a yard apart when queueing...................though not outside, as they were queueing at around 20 mins before they opened this morning

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I've always been quite proud of the NHS. But a GP friend of mine pointed out to me last week that France, Germany and Italy have better health systems. He asked why no other countries have copied the NHS. Hmmm. 

But aren't we told (with quite boring regularity) by politicians of all persuasion that .............'the NHS is the envy of the world'!!!  

I've always found it strange that no-one ever takes issue or remotely challenges this sweeping generalization. The NHS is a political football with every politician competing with each other to lavish praise on the institution.     

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

I love the NHS as it has saved and helped so many people, myself included, and when you are properly ill it is second to none but it has problems, some fixable, some down to human error but a lot to do with political interference.

1. A party gets into power, brings in new ways of doing things and before the NHS can implement them, the government changes and the new lot bring in another way of doing things.

Have an all party long term plan and stick to it. Only change things if really necessary.

2. Have a strict problem reporting regime like the airline industry. No covering up mistakes and accidents so they can't happen again.

3. People want a first class service but only want to pay a third class fee. Think about how much private health care would cost you if the NHS goes. Properly fund it.

4. Some people need to stop misusing it.

I should perhaps have said that I'm still quite proud of it. The only person I know who works in NHS admin says that side of it could be a lot better but you're probably right, it's just not funded sufficiently. Which is stupid because if you put 5p on tax to pay for it I doubt there would be much of an argument 

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I suspect as I’m also guilty people don’t really appreciate UK institutions like the NHS and the BBC. which are providing far  better information than elsewhere unless they have lived elsewhere.

When it comes to healthcare provision some countries spend  more and get more. US being the exception where great healthcare is available but only if you can afford it and it is poor value for money.  Personally I’m happy living somewhere where I pay more taxes but there are better services  I suspect this crisis may also change the UK attitude to the level of social provision  

The level of panic buying in the UK is a poor reflection on UK society though. It is selfish and not rational. 

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

absolutely useless

just back from Sainsburys -only wanted milk, shelves pretty much cleared

watched a couple put through about 8 packets of ground coffee, checked as I went to get milk, they must have taken what was left

I asked the woman looking after the tills what checks they were doing on bulk buying

none it would seem, as 'someone has to buy it' 🙄

but they have put yellow and black warning tape on the floor around the tills so people can stand a yard apart when queueing...................though not outside, as they were queueing at around 20 mins before they opened this morning

First world problem 

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Italians deaths continue to rise per day, 793 today, 4825 total.

Though New York Time article said average age of Italian death is 78.5

image.png.3122beb076efc8c36dee5cf146f9caba.png

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1 hour ago, Uncle Fred said:

First world problem 

which must be comforting if you are an NHS worker, someone old, or vunerable

any concern they have about greddy barsra ds grabbing everything, idiots thinking it's a fancy dress so time to put on a mask of  santisers being taken can reassure themselves that it's ok

because it is a first world problem

 

it is not

as shortages will mean the wealthier countries will be able to outbid the poorer countries for healthcare equipment - just as that shytehawk Trump tried with regard to the German company working on a vaccine

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3 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Italians deaths continue to rise per day, 793 today, 4825 total.

Though New York Time article said average age of Italian death is 78.5

image.png.3122beb076efc8c36dee5cf146f9caba.png

 

Is this table correct?

Only 111 new cases in the UK is very good news

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5 minutes ago, Molly Windley said:

 

Is this table correct?

Only 111 new cases in the UK is very good news

No it isn't correct 

Screenshot_20200321-175139_Chrome.thumb.jpg.a339e9cf7b4292902333c711ed4b05c9.jpg

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Molly Windley said:

 

Is this table correct?

Only 111 new cases in the UK is very good news

do we really needs tables, or an update on scores

has it not occured to some that there is almost certainly some on here who are extrememly vunerable, due to existing health conditions

are these numbers any help to their well being - or a way to calm down things

to lessen the panic

if not here's something you could play as you read them out

"greetingfs pop pickers.....we have the deaths from the 3rd Saturday in the month

and up from number 12 we have Korea with a huge leap of 327 deaths over night.

,down to number nine is Spain with only 294 and a non mover is the UK with excatly 260 the same as yesterday....."

 

Edited by Bill

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7 minutes ago, Bill said:

do we really needs tables, or an update on scores

has it not occured to some that there is almost certainly some on here who are extrememly vunerable, due to existing health conditions

are these numbers any help to their well being - or a way to calm down things

to lessen the panic

if not here's something you could play as you read them out

"greetingfs pop pickers.....we have the deaths from the 3rd Saturday in the month

and up from number 12 we have Korea with a huge leap of 327 deaths over night.

,down to number nine is Spain with only 294 and a non mover is the UK with excatly 260 the same as yesterday....."

 

I like to be informed of what is happening from home and others like to expose themselves and multiple others to the possibility of spreading the virus for the sake of a pint of milk

 

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