Corona Virus main thread

[ron obvious 1,499]

This woman is absolutely brilliant:

 

 

[ricardo 7,345]

National

54,095 -  75

rate of decrease of  5.2%           1.22 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             865.3

N & N Patients

01-02-2022                                  56 31-01-2022 53 30-01-2022 52 29-01-2022 59                 Vax    1st Dose           13,929                91.2% done                               Norwich numbers   79.4%        Booster rate 56.5%      2nd Dose          27,148                 84.5% done                                                                 74%                                                         Booster    36,338    total          37,529,824                65.3%      In Hospital 03-02-2022                                      14,634 02-02-2022 14,849 01-02-2022 15,265 31-01-2022 15,734 30-01-2022 15,384

Edited February 6, 2022 by ricardo

[KernowCanary 214]

England has recorded only 49,533 cases today; down from 57,377 yesterday, but most importantly 59,559 last Sunday, seeing how it’s better practice to compare the same days like for like from the previous week.

THIS IS THE LOWEST CASE TOTAL IN ENGLAND SINCE 13 DECEMBER WHEN OMICRON TOOK OFF.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60259302

I always had the suspicion that our government would use this to score political points and that maybe some of the EU countries may bite back.

In a way I'm glad things transpired the way they did as I bet it hugely helped our uptake amongst our most vulnerable population when you had the likes of the Daily Express getting all nationalistic in favour of our vaccine. Thankfully all before the typical neofascist right wing conspiracists got hold of them as happened in America where their uptake is absolutely shocking for what should be a highly educated modern society.

I do suspect that if we didn't have a home grown vaccine, things could have looked a hell of a lot different for Boris and co. I honestly think that saved his bacon after a disastrous 2020.

[ricardo 7,345]

19 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60259302

I always had the suspicion that our government would use this to score political points and that maybe some of the EU countries may bite back.

In a way I'm glad things transpired the way they did as I bet it hugely helped our uptake amongst our most vulnerable population when you had the likes of the Daily Express getting all nationalistic in favour of our vaccine. Thankfully all before the typical neofascist right wing conspiracists got hold of them as happened in America where their uptake is absolutely shocking for what should be a highly educated modern society.

I do suspect that if we didn't have a home grown vaccine, things could have looked a hell of a lot different for Boris and co. I honestly think that saved his bacon after a disastrous 2020.

 

But before European regulators made their decision, Germany decided it should not be given to those over 65. While in France, President Macron, called the vaccine "quasi-ineffective" in the elderly.

But just hours later, the European Medicines Agency approved the jab for adults of all ages.

Both Germany and France would reverse their decisions, but the reputation of the vaccine had been damaged. Some doctors in France had to throw away doses because nobody was turning up to get the jab.

 

I wonder what the human cost of this was.

[Well b back 3,190]

44 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

But before European regulators made their decision, Germany decided it should not be given to those over 65. While in France, President Macron, called the vaccine "quasi-ineffective" in the elderly.

But just hours later, the European Medicines Agency approved the jab for adults of all ages.

Both Germany and France would reverse their decisions, but the reputation of the vaccine had been damaged. Some doctors in France had to throw away doses because nobody was turning up to get the jab.

 

I wonder what the human cost of this was.

Astra Zeneca say 100’s of thousands and the problems started ( according to AZ ) as it was called by the usual suspects ‘ The British ‘ vaccine when it was meant to save the world. So destroying the reputation of the vaccine was done on nationalistic and political grounds all around the world.

[Well b back 3,190]

"I think bad behaviour from scientists and from politicians has probably killed hundreds of thousands of people - and that they cannot be proud of."

He adds: "I don't think it made relations with Europe any easier that it was promoted as the British vaccine."

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

But before European regulators made their decision, Germany decided it should not be given to those over 65. While in France, President Macron, called the vaccine "quasi-ineffective" in the elderly.

But just hours later, the European Medicines Agency approved the jab for adults of all ages.

Both Germany and France would reverse their decisions, but the reputation of the vaccine had been damaged. Some doctors in France had to throw away doses because nobody was turning up to get the jab.

 

I wonder what the human cost of this was.

It only takes one misinterpreted fact and the mud slinging starts. Blood clots. For a period, all we heard was it could cause blood clotting. And maybe it could in some. But people were dying anyway so there was no need for the overwhelming majority to fear having it.

Kids take ecstasy or similar each weekend and one dies every now and again. But the next weekend, the kids are chucking them down their necks again

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

It only takes one misinterpreted fact and the mud slinging starts. Blood clots. For a period, all we heard was it could cause blood clotting. And maybe it could in some. But people were dying anyway so there was no need for the overwhelming majority to fear having it.

Kids take ecstasy or similar each weekend and one dies every now and again. But the next weekend, the kids are chucking them down their necks again

People are known to be extremely poor at rationalizing risk. Part of it I suspect is that taking the vaccine is seen as a positive affirmative act (with a small but real risk)  - whereas ignoring Covid and hoping for the best (it won't be me) and 'taking your chances' is simply the lazier thing to do - well there's no risk from the vaccine but Covid might well and still kill you. Frankly its simply a gamble - one which many lost due to Johnson's dithering.

It's rather like motorways are the safest roads, flying is safer than boats or vehicles and who the h e l l would ever cycle.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

We can dress this up all we like but there is no doubt imo that Macrons' ill advised comments, the motivation for which is open to debate, had a very detrimental effect on the reputation and hence usage of AZ vaccine. Of course there were numerous events that have impacted vaccine hesitancy but the Macron incident was significant.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

31 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We can dress this up all we like but there is no doubt imo that Macrons' ill advised comments, the motivation for which is open to debate, had a very detrimental effect on the reputation and hence usage of AZ vaccine. Of course there were numerous events that have impacted vaccine hesitancy but the Macron incident was significant.

Probably is the case that Macron's comments had some effect but IMO much less so than Johnson's gleeful boosterish but very foolish remarks about short circuiting the approval process for which the motivation was clear - desperation for a few days of good newspaper headlines after after a year of utter incompetence & u-turns. Also bear in mind that whatever impact Macron's comments did or didn't have, France have vaccinated a significantly higher proportion of their population than the UK so with his own citizens at least there doesn't seem to have been much impact.

Either way it seems pretty obvious that neither Johnson's early comments or Macron's were what really did for the AZ vaccine - that was the direct result of the UK concealing & indeed lying about the number (though tiny) of cases of serious side effects, viz deaths, associated with AZ.

So when it became clear in other countries all over Europe that deaths and serious illness associated with AZ were occuring at a significantly higher rate (10 times I think from memory) than the UK had been reporting eventually leading to an extremely humiliating admission that the UK figures were 10x what had been previously admitted.

As is so often the case the truth wouldn't have been a problem (other than perhaps to Johnson's nationalist and triumphal championing of AZ as a huge British success), the AZ numbers of side effects were still very small but the lying about them completely shattered the confidence in most Western countries and it was game over for AZ in most of Europe other than the UK after that.

[ricardo 7,345]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

We can dress this up all we like but there is no doubt imo that Macrons' ill advised comments, the motivation for which is open to debate, had a very detrimental effect on the reputation and hence usage of AZ vaccine. Of course there were numerous events that have impacted vaccine hesitancy but the Macron incident was significant.

Indeed, but as we can see it doesn't stop some people twisting the facts to obfuscate the situation

This is what happened.

In the case of Germany, someone invented some ****, somewhere in officialdom and then "leaked it" to the press.

In France, Macron became a self taught expert on COVID and vaccines (as stated by his spin doctors) and mouthed some more nonsense.

In neither case, could any actual facts be found to substantiate the claims.

[ricardo 7,345]

National

57,623 -  45

rate of decrease of  10.4%           1 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             848 slowly subsiding again

N & N Patients

01-02-2022                                  56 31-01-2022 53 30-01-2022 52 29-01-2022 59                 Vax    1st Dose           8,321                   91.2% done                               Norwich numbers   79.4%        Booster rate 56.6%      2nd Dose          16,605                 84.5% done                                                                 74%                                                         Booster    19,805    total          37,553,416                65.3%     not many willing arms left to jab. From my experience in shops and supermarkets, many appear to think its all over. Time will tell as always.   In Hospital   04-02-2022                                   14,207 03-02-2022 14,666 02-02-2022 14,869 01-02-2022 15,280 31-01-2022 15,746

[KernowCanary 214]

Idiots tweeting stuff like “Two World Wars, one World Cup and a World beating vaccine” (this was actually tweeted during the Euros), definitely didn’t help the cause. Nationalistic attitudes seemed to sadly hamper it’s trust from the public.

I had that jab myself and I had no problems with it and no bad attitudes from having it as the one given to me.

Edited February 7, 2022 by KernowCanary

[Indy 3,283]

Pretty much my entire concerns from five years ago, the rise of nationalism in all countries should be of concern to normal people. The real question should be who’s destabilising the equilibrium we had for thirty years? Is it really China & Russia, do you really think so after all the trade links and investments between the European US and the mentioned countries, the way we still collaborate in space development and other areas in big ways.

Is it any coincidence that since 9/11 and the flood of Middle East refugees the world has started to become fragmented again, are we seeing bigger influences from the IS than we really know? If you think about the EU, US, China & Russia we are all big enough economies to start the transition from fossil fuels but the entire Middle East is built on oil. A war in Europe opens up more opportunities for other areas to take full advantage.

At the start of Covid the world United to find vaccines and for a brief period of time there was a global fight against a common enemy in Covid! Now politicians are using it for their own gains and we shouldn’t let them, it’s those who helped make the vaccines and those who delivered it into our arms, who cared for us and helped us we should be thankful for. Not Maccron or Bumbling Boris. 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Indy

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

52 minutes ago, ricardo said:

National

57,623 -  45

rate of decrease of  10.4%           1 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             848 slowly subsiding again

N & N Patients

01-02-2022                                  56 31-01-2022 53 30-01-2022 52 29-01-2022 59                 Vax    1st Dose           8,321                   91.2% done                               Norwich numbers   79.4%        Booster rate 56.6%      2nd Dose          16,605                 84.5% done                                                                 74%                                                         Booster    19,805    total          37,553,416                65.3%     not many willing arms left to jab. From my experience in shops and supermarkets, many appear to think its all over. Time will tell as always.   In Hospital   04-02-2022                                   14,207 03-02-2022 14,666 02-02-2022 14,869 01-02-2022 15,280 31-01-2022 15,746

Thanks as always, good to see hospital numbers now steadily dropping (and we know a lot of those are where the primary reason to be in hospital is not Covid).

 

So, as you say "they think it's all over..." but unlike the movies, there's no cut off date when Covid will suddenly go away.  

 

I've not seen any updates for the wider world e.g. India or South America for ages - anyone seen any updates ?

 

At the game on Saturday it certainly felt just like 2019, almost no-one wearing a mask, pretty much a full return to normality.  And although I've had no symptoms, I did take a lateral flow test yesterday as I'm just out of the habit of being in proximity to so many people (happily, negative).  

 

So, it's been 2 years that this has dominated our lives and while I'm not going to ignore it and I'm not just going back to the way I used to live, equally I am now largely getting on with life.

 

One sinister aspect of Covid is that China is basically using it to impose a semi-permanent state of repression, which obviously suits their leadership.  The tricky thing for them will be to maintain that when the rest of the world is largely getting back to normal, when their population largely lacks immunity from vaccines or historic infections. 

[ricardo 7,345]

National

66,183 -  314

rate of decrease of  20.2%           1 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             856.6

N & N Patients (no update since 1st Feb)

01-02-2022                                  56 31-01-2022 53 30-01-2022 52 29-01-2022 59                 Vax    1st Dose           10,106                   91.2% done                               Norwich numbers   79.4%        Booster rate 56.6%      2nd Dose          22,861                 84.5% done                                                                 74%                                                         Booster    32,627    total          37,586,043                65.4%       In Hospital   07-02-2022                                        13,793 06-02-2022 13,620 05-02-2022 13,741 04-02-2022 14,237 03-02-2022 14,687

[ricardo 7,345]

As was explained on BBC News this morning, the figures for deaths is now highly unreliable.

Edited February 8, 2022 by ricardo

[KernowCanary 214]

So, a study has proven what a waste of money and time lockdown was, all while people suffered, possibly taking their own lives, the country went broke increasing the retirement age, people lost jobs, many went in debt, lost their businesses and many generations now have trillions to pay off in debt borrowing while the economy is in tatters.

All for a virus with a 97 percent survival rate. Only a 0.2 percent difference got made in lockdowns.

Ferguson and his flawed computer programs, I say programS because one of them got foot and mouth totally wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10466995/amp/New-study-says-lockdowns-reduced-COVID-mortality-2-percent.html

Edited February 8, 2022 by KernowCanary

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

As was explained on BBC News this morning, the figures for deaths is now highly unreliable.

Too high or too low?

[MooreMarriot 307]

58 minutes ago, KernowCanary said:

So, a study has proven what a waste of money and time lockdown was, all while people suffered, possibly taking their own lives, the country went broke increasing the retirement age, people lost jobs, many went in debt, lost their businesses and many generations now have trillions to pay off in debt borrowing while the economy is in tatters.

All for a virus with a 97 percent survival rate. Only a 0.2 percent difference got made in lockdowns.

Ferguson and his flawed computer programs, I say programS because one of them got foot and mouth totally wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10466995/amp/New-study-says-lockdowns-reduced-COVID-mortality-2-percent.html

The report has not been peer reviewed and was put together by people with no medical expertise :

"The researchers — who deal in the field of economics, rather than medicine or public health — originally identified 18,590 global studies into lockdowns, which they claim had to be whittled down to just 24 to answer their research question.

Critics have accused them of 'cherry-picking' studies to suit their narrative and have raised doubts about the biases of its authors, who have been vocal about lockdowns and vaccine mandates on social media. 

Most scientists believe that, before the arrival of vaccines and antivirals, lockdowns had a significant effect on cutting transmission and therefore reducing the number of hospital admissions and deaths caused by Covid. "

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-looking-at-the-impact-of-lockdowns-as-posted-on-the-john-hopkins-krieger-school-of-arts-and-sciences-website/

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by MooreMarriot

[KernowCanary 214]

5 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

The report has not been peer reviewed and was put together by people with no medical expertise :

"The researchers — who deal in the field of economics, rather than medicine or public health — originally identified 18,590 global studies into lockdowns, which they claim had to be whittled down to just 24 to answer their research question.

Critics have accused them of 'cherry-picking' studies to suit their narrative and have raised doubts about the biases of its authors, who have been vocal about lockdowns and vaccine mandates on social media. 

Most scientists believe that, before the arrival of vaccines and antivirals, lockdowns had a significant effect on cutting transmission and therefore reducing the number of hospital admissions and deaths caused by Covid. "

Of course it won’t be peer reviewed, these people who peer review are the ones who wanted us locked down and didn’t care about us.

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, KernowCanary said:

Of course it won’t be peer reviewed, these people who peer review are the ones who wanted us locked down and didn’t care about us.

Odd that you think a bunch of economists care more than public health professionals.

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

On 07/02/2022 at 19:46, Indy said:

Pretty much my entire concerns from five years ago, the rise of nationalism in all countries should be of concern to normal people. The real question should be who’s destabilising the equilibrium we had for thirty years? Is it really China & Russia, do you really think so after all the trade links and investments between the European US and the mentioned countries, the way we still collaborate in space development and other areas in big ways.

Is it any coincidence that since 9/11 and the flood of Middle East refugees the world has started to become fragmented again, are we seeing bigger influences from the IS than we really know? If you think about the EU, US, China & Russia we are all big enough economies to start the transition from fossil fuels but the entire Middle East is built on oil. A war in Europe opens up more opportunities for other areas to take full advantage.

At the start of Covid the world United to find vaccines and for a brief period of time there was a global fight against a common enemy in Covid! Now politicians are using it for their own gains and we shouldn’t let them, it’s those who helped make the vaccines and those who delivered it into our arms, who cared for us and helped us we should be thankful for. Not Maccron or Bumbling Boris. 

The world certainly did not unite to find vaccines and there was no global fight against a common enemy - it was every country for itself! The borders closed, the vaccines gained a nationalistic dimension, the contracts for vaccine supplies were negotiated at a national level by individual countries (except for the EU countries who had to wait because the EU stuck their oar in and slowed down the procurement policies), the vaccines were rolled out by national governments according to criteria that the individual country decided. When poorer countries asked for help they were told they had to wait until the rich countries had applied third booster shots to its citizens and they might get the leftovers (a lot just got chucked down the drain). And the kind of organisations that could have operated Covid on a global scale (UN, WHO) were nowhere to be seen. WHO spent the pandemic licking China's a**e.  I didn't see any global unity during the pandemic.

[Indy 3,283]

15 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The world certainly did not unite to find vaccines and there was no global fight against a common enemy - it was every country for itself! The borders closed, the vaccines gained a nationalistic dimension, the contracts for vaccine supplies were negotiated at a national level by individual countries (except for the EU countries who had to wait because the EU stuck their oar in and slowed down the procurement policies), the vaccines were rolled out by national governments according to criteria that the individual country decided. When poorer countries asked for help they were told they had to wait until the rich countries had applied third booster shots to its citizens and they might get the leftovers (a lot just got chucked down the drain). And the kind of organisations that could have operated Covid on a global scale (UN, WHO) were nowhere to be seen. WHO spent the pandemic licking China's a**e.  I didn't see any global unity during the pandemic.

As normal by a narrow minded person, for starters China released full disclosure of the virus to all countries scientific communities, they certainly worked with each other by sharing information, once the vaccines were developed then the nationalistic government’s of certain countries went into overdrive. The WHO have little power but to advise governments the best way to distribute the vaccines and it was the richer countries governments who went into selfish mode. Something which funny enough Russia didn’t do, they developed the Sputnik vaccine and it was circulated to a number or countries including some EU countries too, so your generalisation of the EU having to wait again isn’t correct, they were asked to join the bulk buying but all were free to buy on their own as many did, buying other vaccines like Sputnik. It was US and British governments who publicly cast such doubts on Sputnik that it caused a lot of false concerns.

But as you are a classic case of nationalism you see what you want to, you’re very arguments show where your views are, considering it was an Anglo Swedish company which developed our vaccine, vials made in number of countries and distributed by multi national countries to their vaccine sites.

As before we are very different in our mind sets, I’ve lived under repression, I’ve seen first hand how countries battle for freedom, when it arrives and barriers come down it worked. Remember that it was the UK who were involved in destabilising the Middle East through the 80’&90’s which has lead to such large numbers moving towards the EU.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Indy

[KernowCanary 214]

I wouldn’t actually mind if the study is a load of rubbish, as recently after reading it I have felt very aggrieved that we all gave up so much, only so governments caused so much damage to everything like livelihoods, mental health and the economy.

If the survival rate of this was the same as the fictional virus in Cohesion, I’d get it from the start, as everyone in that film who got that pig/bat disease died.

If there is a study attacking it, saying the lockdown was something that had to be done, then I won’t feel so bad let alone cheated by the government.

[ricardo 7,345]

National

68,214 -  276

rate of decrease of  22.8%           1 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             891.2  rate still quite high locally

N & N Patients (no update since 1st Feb)

01-02-2022                                  56 31-01-2022 53 30-01-2022 52 29-01-2022 59                 Vax    1st Dose           10,804                   91.2% done                               Norwich numbers   79.4%        Booster rate 56.7%      2nd Dose          24,721                 84.6% done                                                                 74.1%                                                         Booster    31,720    total          37,617,7633                65.4%       In Hospital   08-02-2022                                    13,545 07-02-2022 13,822 06-02-2022 13,639 05-02-2022 13,758 04-02-2022 14,254

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

6 hours ago, Indy said:

As normal by a narrow minded person, for starters China released full disclosure of the virus to all countries scientific communities, they certainly worked with each other by sharing information, once the vaccines were developed then the nationalistic government’s of certain countries went into overdrive. The WHO have little power but to advise governments the best way to distribute the vaccines and it was the richer countries governments who went into selfish mode. Something which funny enough Russia didn’t do, they developed the Sputnik vaccine and it was circulated to a number or countries including some EU countries too, so your generalisation of the EU having to wait again isn’t correct, they were asked to join the bulk buying but all were free to buy on their own as many did, buying other vaccines like Sputnik. It was US and British governments who publicly cast such doubts on Sputnik that it caused a lot of false concerns.

But as you are a classic case of nationalism you see what you want to, you’re very arguments show where your views are, considering it was an Anglo Swedish company which developed our vaccine, vials made in number of countries and distributed by multi national countries to their vaccine sites.

As before we are very different in our mind sets, I’ve lived under repression, I’ve seen first hand how countries battle for freedom, when it arrives and barriers come down it worked. Remember that it was the UK who were involved in destabilising the Middle East through the 80’&90’s which has lead to such large numbers moving towards the EU.

Yes, but you need to see the facts and come to a conclusion and not make up a narrative and then try to find stories to fit your narrative. Let's take what you said about China. China only released full disclosure when they had no choice as the virus was spreading around the world. At the outset, they first denied the virus existed and some people believe the Chinese authorities murdered the whistle-blower doctor from Wuhan who brought it to the world's attention. They then blamed it on an outbreak in a wet market when the evidence is stacking up that a lab leak is looking increasingly likely. The Chinese also attempted to blame the US for bringing the virus to China in imported bananas. When the pressure was on China to open up its faculties to WHO in Wuhan for inspection, they would only allow selected western scientists into the labs and the Chinese only accepted the leader of the inspection unit to be the American who had been involved in the illegal 'gain-of-function' research of the corona virus that had been going on secretly between the Americans and Chinese scientists.

But in the end, despite waffling around the subject you are actually agreeing with my point that the vaccine development and rollout was not done on a united basis as you yourself write that the Western countries went into 'selfish mode' and that Russia developed their own version which the British and Yanks dissed. Which they did. And the French dissed Astra Zeneca. And even the Americans didn't want the Oxford AZ vaccine but were prepared to wait for their own solutions to be developed. So, sorry, but realpolitik played a huge part of the pandemic with politicians around the world using the pandemic to boost their approval ratings.

[KernowCanary 214]

Here we go again, as soon as restrictions lift somewhere, the BBC start writing an article like this.

Go f*ck yourself Nick Triggle, or shall I call you Nick ****-le?.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60324928

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

47 minutes ago, KernowCanary said:

Here we go again, as soon as restrictions lift somewhere, the BBC start writing an article like this.

Go f*ck yourself Nick Triggle, or shall I call you Nick ****-le?.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60324928

I think you have a fair point, right at the end of the article they quote an epidemiologist saying "Given the availability of rapid tests and current isolation law being largely unenforceable, it might not actually make much difference."  Which is completely sensible and rather undercuts the entire premise of the article - shame that's not mentioned at the start.