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On 17/01/2022 at 23:12, Well b back said:

Yep the vaccines worked as many of us thought, unfortunately though your NHS bashing is not justified. 8 hour waits to get out of ambulances on bad days 18 hour waits in A&E to see a consultant with exhausted workers working constant 12 hour shifts 7 days a week, unfortunately in the NHS we do not get the luxury of 5 day isolation. In addition important operations and diagnosing is being cancelled.

The problems are about to start with a current estimate ( I think it may drop a bit ) of 10% unvaccinated to get sacked, and an estimated 20% aiming to leave. In addition the retired that had their contracts changed to allow them to work unlimited hours will have them changed back to 15 hours a week in March. Of course Boris will tell you we are recruiting 50,000 more nurses, but that will be a net loss of tens of thousands.

Which makes the news that thousands of NHS staff are to be sacked for not getting vaccinated all the dumber. Why do you think so many are refusing the vaccination, as you are closer to the front line than most of us?

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Once we get to an endemic, this thread needs locking, printing out, strapping to a rocket and firing into the sun, never to be spoken about again.

The hope that this thread will one day disappear and sink to the bottom is pure fantasy, total pipe dream. It will be full of doom and gloom contributors newly joining the forum, while not appearing on any other thread whatsoever.

On a serious note, I think government have done pretty well since beginning of last year to be fair. In 2020 there were too many f-ups to fill both sides of an A3 piece of paper.

Of course the Partygate will quite rightly end Boris’s tenure, but they’ve done well since the care homes debacle.

Edited by KernowCanary

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These MSM cronies now writing articles asking if it’s too soon to end “Plan B”.

These tossers know full well they form peoples opinions and they take full advantage of it like the scum that they are. I’m not giving them the satisfaction by clicking on their bait.

The BBC News website must be tight on money what with the amount of free use images they use from Getty.

Edited by KernowCanary

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Artist wants her gifted neon sign removed from Number 10

Tracey Emin insisted the government needs "compassion" rather than more passion after requesting Number 10 take down an artwork she gifted in 2011.

More Passion, a neon piece by the Turner Prize-nominated artist, was installed when David Cameron was prime minister.

She told BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour: "I don't want the work back because I donated it. I would simply like at the moment for it to be taken down, because the neon is notoriously for a party atmosphere.

"You have them at funfairs, casinos, bars or whatever. I really do not feel that Number 10 needs any encouragement on this level."

Ms Emin added: "I want it taken down and this government, I will tell you what they need, they need compassion. That's what they need, not passion. They don't need more party atmospheres.

"Most of us are obeying the rules in every single way because this pandemic has affected everybody so terribly - whether it is financially, whether it is health-wise, people dying or whatever. And this government doesn't seem to care about that."

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-news-latest-live-watch-pmqs-partygate-downing-street-keir-starmer-12514080?postid=3245165#liveblog-body

Amen to that!. I thought it from the start of this nightmare that the government don’t care about us and it looks like someone else was thinking the same!.

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South African scientists have accused Western nations of ignoring early evidence that the new Covid variant was "dramatically" milder than previous versions.

Two of South Africa's most prominent coronavirus experts tell the BBC that Western scepticism could be seen as "racist," or, at least, a refusal "to believe the science because it came from Africa".

Prof Salim Karim, former head of the South African government's Covid advisory committee and vice-president of the International Science Council, says: "We need to learn from each other. 

"Our research is rigorous. Everyone was expecting the worst [about Omicron] and when they weren't seeing it, they were questioning whether our observations were sufficiently scientifically rigorous."”

 

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5 minutes ago, Aggy said:

South African scientists have accused Western nations of ignoring early evidence that the new Covid variant was "dramatically" milder than previous versions.

Two of South Africa's most prominent coronavirus experts tell the BBC that Western scepticism could be seen as "racist," or, at least, a refusal "to believe the science because it came from Africa".

Prof Salim Karim, former head of the South African government's Covid advisory committee and vice-president of the International Science Council, says: "We need to learn from each other. 

"Our research is rigorous. Everyone was expecting the worst [about Omicron] and when they weren't seeing it, they were questioning whether our observations were sufficiently scientifically rigorous."”

 

They may have a point, you could say much the same about the Western nations ignoring Chinese & South East Asian countries evidence in 2020 (with far worse consequences than from the latest wave) but TBF on Omnicron my impression re the Southern African data (apart from there not being a lot of it early on) was a suspicion that it was their very much younger demographic compared to Western nations that might be responsible for the lower level of serious illness.

But Karim's point that "We need to learn from each other" is absolutely spot on - we should have been doing that since January 2020 and the fact that he is still having to make it two years later bears out what a shockingly blinkered approach the UK, and most other Western countries, have taken throughout the pandemic.

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So what is the truth about Covid death totals.

Some interesting Freedom of Information data here.

 

Edited by ricardo
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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

So what is the truth about Covid death totals.

Some interesting Freedom of Information data here.

 

He should put his black marker away .Most people who reach the average age of covid death will have something that would qualify as a pre-existing condition. If someone has had diabetes for 20 years and has lived with it successfully with regular  monitoring , gets covid and dies within 28 days then its entirely reasonable to claim it was the virus that killed him. Not something that occurs  to him at any point. He then gets totally confused about life expectancy numbers . He doesn't understand that if you reach the age of 80 then your life expectancy is in fact 89 and not the average figure he quotes.

 

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National

107,364 -  330

rate of decrease of  32.8%           1.5 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             960.5  down  by a half this week            Local   R 

N & N Patients (not update yet)

18-01-2022                                  113
17-01-2022 118
16-01-2022 114
15-01-2022 109
14-01-2022 116
 
   
   
   
 
   
   
   

Vax  

1st Dose           16,949                90.7% done                               Norwich numbers   79%        Booster rate 55.1%     

2nd Dose          29,893                 83.6% done                                                                 73.2%

                                                          


Booster    66,770    total          36,688,441                63.8%    plenty available, few customers.

 

In Hospital  (starting to fall)

19-01-2022                                         18,494
18-01-2022 18,997
17-01-2022 19,484
16-01-2022 19,259
15-01-2022 19,141
14-01-2022 19,394
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

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4 hours ago, Aggy said:

South African scientists have accused Western nations of ignoring early evidence that the new Covid variant was "dramatically" milder than previous versions.

Two of South Africa's most prominent coronavirus experts tell the BBC that Western scepticism could be seen as "racist," or, at least, a refusal "to believe the science because it came from Africa".

Prof Salim Karim, former head of the South African government's Covid advisory committee and vice-president of the International Science Council, says: "We need to learn from each other. 

"Our research is rigorous. Everyone was expecting the worst [about Omicron] and when they weren't seeing it, they were questioning whether our observations were sufficiently scientifically rigorous."”

 

the issue wasn't the data, more it was comparing apples to oranges. If we had 9 billion Novak Djokovics with elite fitness levels etc. then we'd not even know there was a pandemic. The problem is we don't, we have an unfit and aging population particularly in the west that already puts considerable strain on our healthcare facilities. Exacerbate that with Covid and of course there's a worry of how bad things "might" get. South Africa has different demographics and parameters to consider.

This isn't at all me taking sides with either philosophies, more just pointing out the main differences.

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12 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

the issue wasn't the data, more it was comparing apples to oranges. If we had 9 billion Novak Djokovics with elite fitness levels etc. then we'd not even know there was a pandemic. The problem is we don't, we have an unfit and aging population particularly in the west that already puts considerable strain on our healthcare facilities. Exacerbate that with Covid and of course there's a worry of how bad things "might" get. South Africa has different demographics and parameters to consider.

This isn't at all me taking sides with either philosophies, more just pointing out the main differences.

Agreed there were differences. I was fishing slightly in all honesty, so I could point out that there are also differences between all the other countries in Europe/the world that people on here keep stating are doing “better” than us. 

I do think though that the scientific community didn’t pay quite enough respect to the data from S.Africa as they should have done. There’s being cautious and there’s being too cautious.

Given how quickly the plan b restrictions have all been lifted virtually overnight and a bit out of the blue, I get the sense the government won’t be paying much attention to much of the modelling again in the future.

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23 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Agreed there were differences. I was fishing slightly in all honesty, so I could point out that there are also differences between all the other countries in Europe/the world that people on here keep stating are doing “better” than us. 

I do think though that the scientific community didn’t pay quite enough respect to the data from S.Africa as they should have done. There’s being cautious and there’s being too cautious.

Given how quickly the plan b restrictions have all been lifted virtually overnight and a bit out of the blue, I get the sense the government won’t be paying much attention to much of the modelling again in the future.

I thought all in all we were pretty measured (England) compared to most to be honest. Plan B is fairly low effort and not very invasive all things considered considering the pandemic powers our government have...

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27 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Agreed there were differences. I was fishing slightly in all honesty, so I could point out that there are also differences between all the other countries in Europe/the world that people on here keep stating are doing “better” than us. 

I do think though that the scientific community didn’t pay quite enough respect to the data from S.Africa as they should have done. There’s being cautious and there’s being too cautious.

Given how quickly the plan b restrictions have all been lifted virtually overnight and a bit out of the blue, I get the sense the government won’t be paying much attention to much of the modelling again in the future.

I agree with @Tetteys Jig that the measures taken were very appropriate and, as the data from other countries has shown, pretty much absolutely correct.

But I do also have a great deal of sympathy for the SA scientists. They did the right work, analysed things correctly and then were pretty much ignored as if they were of a lower stature than European/US scientists - I would have been bloody annoyed too.  

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29 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I thought all in all we were pretty measured (England) compared to most to be honest. Plan B is fairly low effort and not very invasive all things considered considering the pandemic powers our government have...

I would also agree with that, although I think  that’s because the government did what it has been criticised for by many throughout and largely “ignored the science”. If they had followed the modelling (which now looks high, but even at the time looked it too), then there’d have been more restrictions I think. 

But that’s how it should work. The government reviews “the science”, looks at it sceptically, and makes its decisions. 

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49 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I agree with @Tetteys Jig that the measures taken were very appropriate and, as the data from other countries has shown, pretty much absolutely correct.

But I do also have a great deal of sympathy for the SA scientists. They did the right work, analysed things correctly and then were pretty much ignored as if they were of a lower stature than European/US scientists - I would have been bloody annoyed too.  

Fair point

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44 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Just had jab No4 Moderna

.👍

Did you have to produce any evidence you needed it? Mrs KG should have one according to the information she got from the doctor/receptionist over the phone.

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28 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Did you have to produce any evidence you needed it? Mrs KG should have one according to the information she got from the doctor/receptionist over the phone.

They are now contacting the immunocompromised group who are more than 91 days from their third primary jab. I am now at 93 days ( Oct 20th) You do not have to wait until you receive a letter from NHS. According to the website you can show the letter that you received for the third primary, which is what I did. You don't  need to make an appointment, you can just walk in.

Apparently the computer software is not set up with the four jabbers in mind so they now call this your booster. Don't  forget to take your cards as proof of vax.

Edited by ricardo

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

They are now contacting the immunocompromised group who are more than 91 days from their third primary jab. I am now at 93 days ( Oct 20th) You do not have to wait until you receive a letter from NHS. According to the website you can show the letter that you received for the third primary, which is what I did. You don't  need to make an appointment, you can just walk in.

Apparently the computer software is not set up with the four jabbers in mind so they now call this your booster. Don't  forget to take your cards as proof of vax.

Thanks. No reaction from what is probably the third different vaccine?

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21 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thanks. No reaction from what is probably the third different vaccine?

None at all yet. My first three were all Pfizer.

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National

95,787 -  288

rate of decrease of  27.3%           1.4 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             960.5  not updated yet

N & N Patients

18-01-2022                                      113
17-01-2022 118
16-01-2022 114
15-01-2022 109
14-01-2022 116

 

Vax  

1st Dose           17,806                90.7% done                               Norwich numbers   79%        Booster rate 55.1%     

2nd Dose          33,674                 83.6% done                                                                 73.2%

                                                          


Booster    65,203    total          36,753,644                63.9%   

 

In Hospital

20-01-2022                                          17,976
19-01-2022 18,517
18-01-2022 19,014
17-01-2022 19,498
16-01-2022 19,271

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National

76,807 -  297

rate of decrease of  22.2%           1.4 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             882.6 

N & N Patients

18-01-2022                                      113
17-01-2022 118
16-01-2022 114
15-01-2022 109
14-01-2022 116

 

Vax  

1st Dose           17,277                90.8% done                               Norwich numbers   79%        Booster rate 55.3%     

2nd Dose          33,312                 83.6% done                                                                 73.3%

                                                          


Booster    67,640    total          36,821,284                64%   

 

In Hospital

20-01-2022                                          17,976
19-01-2022 18,517
18-01-2022 19,014
17-01-2022 19,498
16-01-2022 19,271

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Despite office returns being encouraged, my workplace are still as usual acting as if a lockdown is still on and keeping us all at home!. If for any reason we need to go to the office for anything like pick up computer equipment or mail, then we have to wear a mask and keep two metres apart while there.

Apart from that, none of us have gone in there since March 30th 2020, being the day the last lot were sent home. I’ve still been to the office now and again to collect mail addressed to me, so have never actually been in there to do any work for almost two years now.

Being at home for 98 percent of my work-related activities since March 2020, is just rubbish. Many people have left who I consider my friends and having to say goodbye to them via a video link or an email isn’t the same.

Hopefully one day they’ll see sense and slowly reintroduce people back to the office, nobody is enjoying this working from home nonsense and it shouldn’t be “the future” as some are calling it.

I am not on any so-called “social media” website as they call it (and never have been) as I am well against it and if I was, I bet my mental health would be worse than it is right now what with the tripe people post on it about Covid.

Edited by KernowCanary

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2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I stopped watching (and boy does he waffle) when the guys doesn't understand life expectancy. Made the same mistake Johnosn did a few years ago.

Life expectancy as quoted (about 81.5) is for newborns today.

There is a different figure for expected life expetancy if you are already 50,60, 70, 80 etc (as many of sad 'die young or very young' will of sadly dropped out already which reduces the average).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/lifeexpectancyatbirthandatage65bylocalareasinenglandandwales/2015-11-04

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National

74,799 -  75

rate of decrease of  15.4%           1.4 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             744.1

N & N Patients

18-01-2022                                      113
17-01-2022 118
16-01-2022 114
15-01-2022 109
14-01-2022 116

 

Vax  

1st Dose           19,430                90.8% done                               Norwich numbers   79%        Booster rate 55.5%     

2nd Dose          42,473                 83.1% done                                                                 73.3%

                                                          


Booster    68,795    total          36,901,079                64.1%   

 

In Hospital

20-01-2022                                          17,976
19-01-2022 18,517
18-01-2022 19,014
17-01-2022 19,498
16-01-2022 19,271

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