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18 minutes ago, Indy said:

Absolutely I’ve been wearing my masks (high grade, not a face covering) for two years including at Carrow Road on my visits, throughout the two years now.

But when the inane politicians can’t even be bothered to wear them in parliament what does that say about them all?

This is actually alluding to a thought I made weeks go - Israel and Japan both 'crushed' Delta but we always run to explain it with the most high tech (booster) explanation whereas it could in large part be that the low tech masks and social distancing are actually far more effective than we give them credit for (Israel reintroduced them at the same time as the booster rollout etc). 

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51 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I've never denied that they don't work but they're certainly not a superior tool to vaccinations. I wear one when required and when I feel its suitable and isn't going to be impractical. Still isn't going to end the pandemic. Or are you thinking we all just wear masks all the time?

Surely the important point is not that they are inferior or superior to vaccination but an additional tool to vaccination - none of the tools we have are 100% as we all know.

So it baffles why it has taken this long (cases and deaths have been far too high for months now) and a new variant before we start to make proper use again of the simple, and according to the scientists pretty effective, tools we have available to help get us through this pandemic without the need to resort to the more drastic measures which we know will be the next step if the situation continues to deteriorate.

Well actually, it doesn't baffle me but I think the points about our utterly useless PM have already been well made..........

 

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56 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The crunch comes Indy if the NHS has to start to pick and choose who it can treat (triage).

Personally when it comes to that - no vaccine - then back of the queue (plus box of paracetamol). It was their choice.

Surely we are already all that point - not just as regards Covid but A & E generally.

More and more reports of people spending many hours both waiting for ambulances to arrive and also waiting in ambulances outside hospitals for hours before they even get as far as triage.

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20 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Surely the important point is not that they are inferior or superior to vaccination but an additional tool to vaccination - none of the tools we have are 100% as we all know.

So it baffles why it has taken this long (cases and deaths have been far too high for months now) and a new variant before we start to make proper use again of the simple, and according to the scientists pretty effective, tools we have available to help get us through this pandemic without the need to resort to the more drastic measures which we know will be the next step if the situation continues to deteriorate.

Well actually, it doesn't baffle me but I think the points about our utterly useless PM have already been well made..........

 

I guess my point is that regular vaccinations is already a sustainable way of modern life and has very little negative impact for the vast majority of people.

Masks as useful as they are aren't "normal life". I sat on a 5 hour flight wearing one and whilst I was fine to do so, it still made the experience pretty unpleasant and it's certainly not something I'd want to see normalised.

It's all well and good for people like me who rarely use public transit and shop at quieter times but for many, especially service industry workers, it's an absolute pain in the **** to have to keep up with for multiple hours a day.

I do completely agree with you that it's far better than hammer measures like lockdowns though so it does make complete sense to utilise them while things are on a knife edge as they are but we do have to eventually find a way to live without them being an every day requirement eventually. I'd be okay with them being permenant in clinical settings though as that probably made sense pre covid anyway.

You can add Madiera to that list with Japan etc. as well. They've handled the pandemic excellently all things considered. When I went in summer the only thing that wasn't "life as normal" was masks in the shops and sometimes on public transit. Any mention of lockdowns was a distant memory back to spring 2020 to them as well.

Edited by Tetteys Jig
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12 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Surely we are already all that point - not just as regards Covid but A & E generally.

More and more reports of people spending many hours both waiting for ambulances to arrive and also waiting in ambulances outside hospitals for hours before they even get as far as triage.

It is happening. I have torn my achilles playing walk football. Canot see a GP. Phoned 111. They said I would need a cast as I am too old for an operation. Referred to Surgery. See a nurse who says just do physio.

I am not complaining because there are more important things for the hospitals to deal with but it just shows how much is being put on the backburner, for now at least.

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So what’s peoples take on tomorrow’s game ? What extra precautions, if any, are you going to take, are you even still going ?

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24 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

So what’s peoples take on tomorrow’s game ? What extra precautions, if any, are you going to take, are you even still going ?

I shall be taking a minature Glenfiddich for halftime warm up.

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16 hours ago, ricardo said:

Just wait until the fag smuggling starts. 

Are they going to criminalise under age smokers?

Seems nobody learned anything from the prohibition era.

Coming at the same time as a lot of countries are waking up to the merits of legalising illegal drugs to mitigate the problems, it leaves you scratching your head at what has possessed them to go down this road. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

It is happening. I have torn my achilles playing walk football. Canot see a GP. Phoned 111. They said I would need a cast as I am too old for an operation. Referred to Surgery. See a nurse who says just do physio.

I am not complaining because there are more important things for the hospitals to deal with but it just shows how much is being put on the backburner, for now at least.

But the hospitals are empty KG.

 

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3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is actually alluding to a thought I made weeks go - Israel and Japan both 'crushed' Delta but we always run to explain it with the most high tech (booster) explanation whereas it could in large part be that the low tech masks and social distancing are actually far more effective than we give them credit for (Israel reintroduced them at the same time as the booster rollout etc). 

Exactly but why does the British need the government to enforce it? Are we that stupid that we can’t take care of ourselves and do a quick risk assessment? I do on a daily basis. I have a Christmas party invite to a local hotel for the 18th paid for, but I’m now seriously considering not going as we have family here (11 of us) for Christmas dinner and I don’t want to take the chance of catching any variant! We all need to take consideration to our actions.

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5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Exactly but why does the British need the government to enforce it? Are we that stupid that we can’t take care of ourselves and do a quick risk assessment? I do on a daily basis. I have a Christmas party invite to a local hotel for the 18th paid for, but I’m now seriously considering not going as we have family here (11 of us) for Christmas dinner and I don’t want to take the chance of catching any variant! We all need to take consideration to our actions.

I'd keep quiet about it if I were you otherwise the thought police will be round and half of you will have to sit in the garden.🎅😉

Edited by ricardo
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15 minutes ago, Indy said:

Exactly but why does the British need the government to enforce it? Are we that stupid that we can’t take care of ourselves and do a quick risk assessment? I do on a daily basis. I have a Christmas party invite to a local hotel for the 18th paid for, but I’m now seriously considering not going as we have family here (11 of us) for Christmas dinner and I don’t want to take the chance of catching any variant! We all need to take consideration to our actions.

Leaving aside enforcement in the current situation I suspect we'll in 'peace' time become more Japanese if we have a cold or sniffle, wearing a mask by default going forward as a courtesy to others. It's obvious really else by definition you are being totally selfish (looking at all those Tory MPs in parliament). The masks are not for your protection but to protect others as if it needed repeating.

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9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Leaving aside enforcement in the current situation I suspect we'll in 'peace' time become more Japanese if we have a cold or sniffle, wearing a mask by default going forward as a courtesy to others. It's obvious really else by definition you are being totally selfish (looking at all those Tory MPs in parliament). The masks are not for your protection but to protect others as if it needed repeating.

I’d like to think you’re correct, love to see everyone now wear masks, not face coverings but actual masks, but I was in London a month ago, I went to two shows, Mary Poppins & Back to the future and both asked you to wear masks, only about 30% of us wore masks. It wasn’t enforced even though it was clearly asked for on signs and vocally. On the tube only 50% of us were wearing masks. Shepherds Bush shopping centre was even worse hardly anyone could be bothered with masks!

So I don’t think we will as a nation become more Japanese, small percentage might but as soon as restrictions are eased masks won’t be worn mark my words.

Edited by Indy

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4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

The crunch comes Indy if the NHS has to start to pick and choose who it can treat (triage).

Personally when it comes to that - no vaccine - then back of the queue (plus box of paracetamol). It was their choice.

They don't have that luxury though, and with the state of the NHS, whilst they're doing their best, no guarantees there would be a positive outcome.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/vegan-covid-vaccine-animal-testing-b1966647.html

Glynn Steel “begged for the vaccine,” his wife Emma Steel said, before he was shifted to life support. But by then it was too late for the vaccine to be effective on him, she said.

“The last thing Glynn (Steel) said to me was ‘I have never felt so ill, I wish that I had the vaccine’,” Ms Steel, who is double-vaccinated, told The Sun.

Steel had decided to skip inoculation, claiming that the vaccine was being tested on animals.

 

But things took a turn for the worse late last month after the 54-year-old man came down with a cold, and eventually tested positive for Covid-19.

Steel’s condition grew worse within days due to his age and zero vaccine immunity. Ms Steel had to call for an ambulance on 2 November but none was available. She ended up having to drive him to the hospital. At that point, Steel was unconscious.

By November 10, Steel had slipped into a medically-induced coma after being put on life-support. He was barely making any progress while fighting the infection. On 16 November, he died within minutes of the life-support machine being turned off, the report added.

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3 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Steel had decided to skip inoculation, claiming that the vaccine was being tested on animals.

 

 

Requiem for the Anti Vaxers.

Don't play dice with "The Grim Reaper"

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19 minutes ago, ricardo said:

eFjUV6u.png

From memory I think the England number was about the same the week before ?  But the ONS numbers are from some time back so not particularly relevant to current developments/Omicron etc, I'm interested in how the daily PCR test numbers go as that's always the first sign of where we're going.

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National

58,194 - 120

rate of increase of  10%    slight increase again, is it Omicron?

Local

Norwich   West rate             285      Local   R  estimated 0.9 - 1.1

    

N&N Patients  (falling)

7-12-2021                                     18
06-12-2021 23
05-12-2021 22
04-12-2021 22
03-12-2021 20
02-12-2021 22
 
   
   
   
   

Vax     

1st Dose      24,039              89% done                               Norwich numbers   77.7%        Booster rate 27.1

2nd Dose     33,824              81.2% done                                                                  71%


Booster     469,479     total          22,184,983                38.6%

In Hospital

09-12-2021                                      7,413
08-12-2021 7,356
07-12-2021 7,344
06-12-2021 7,361
05-12-2021 7,258
04-12-2021 7,161
03-12-2021 7,312
02-12-2021 7,406

 

 

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22 minutes ago, ricardo said:

National

58,194 - 120

rate of increase of  10%    slight increase again, is it Omicron?

Local

Norwich   West rate             285      Local   R  estimated 0.9 - 1.1

    

N&N Patients  (falling)

7-12-2021                                     18
06-12-2021 23
05-12-2021 22
04-12-2021 22
03-12-2021 20
02-12-2021 22
 
   
   
   
   

Vax     

1st Dose      24,039              89% done                               Norwich numbers   77.7%        Booster rate 27.1

2nd Dose     33,824              81.2% done                                                                  71%


Booster     469,479     total          22,184,983                38.6%

In Hospital

09-12-2021                                      7,413
08-12-2021 7,356
07-12-2021 7,344
06-12-2021 7,361
05-12-2021 7,258
04-12-2021 7,161
03-12-2021 7,312
02-12-2021 7,406

 

 

here we go then! Scotland had a bit of a catch up but still... hopefully all this new mask wearing will contain the spread...

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28 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

here we go then! Scotland had a bit of a catch up but still... hopefully all this new mask wearing will contain the spread...

I should make the most of attending the next two games, should you wish to go.

Edited by Van wink

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I should make the most of attending the next two games, should you wish to go.

Yes, in a months time I could be fighting with the remnants of humanity to lick the last traces of chip fat from ancient discarded wrappings outside the Grosvenor Chip shop in Pottergate.

Looking on the brightside it should be easy to get a casual ticket for next seasons Championship campaign.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

Yes, in a months time I could be fighting with the remnants of humanity to lick the last traces of chip fat from ancient discarded wrappings outside the Grosvenor Chip shop in Pottergate.

Looking on the brightside it should be easy to get a casual ticket for next seasons Championship campaign.

And you try to tell the youngsters today and . . .

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5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Surely we are already all that point - not just as regards Covid but A & E generally.

More and more reports of people spending many hours both waiting for ambulances to arrive and also waiting in ambulances outside hospitals for hours before they even get as far as triage.

As you say, this has been the case for a while - I posted the stats yesterday from my local trusts. The November 2021 position for both a and e waiting times and bed availability was better than November 2019.

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Not sure I’ve seen it on this thread, but bbc report suggesting third jab = 70- 75 per cent protection from catching the new variant.

Quote “However, the third dose increased the protection against getting Covid symptoms to between 70 and 75%.”

That’s for any symptoms at all. They continue..

“We expect the vaccines to show higher protection against the serious complications of COVID-19, so if you haven't yet had your first two doses please book an appointment straight away."

The UK Health Security Agency said vaccines were still likely to offer good protection against severe Covid that needed hospital treatment. 

 

 

Edited by Aggy

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Just now, Aggy said:

Not sure I’ve seen it on this thread, but bbc report suggesting third jab = 75 per cent protection from the new variant.

Yes. The 3rd is incredibly important. I read that a 3rd Pfizer or Moderna jab gave you x 25 times more resistance.

This...just breaking now too:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/two-jabs-give-less-protection-against-catching-omicron-than-delta-uk-data-shows?

Demonstrates very strongly that everyone needs their 3rd vaccination (which I would prefer it to be called and NOT a booster...a matter of semantics I realise but an important distinction for me).

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3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

As you say, this has been the case for a while - I posted the stats yesterday from my local trusts. The November 2021 position for both a and e waiting times and bed availability was better than November 2019.

Indeed we’ve all just been asked to work over Christmas and no holiday where possible, I reckon we will be playing cards.

You should come yourself to the COVID wards you would s*** yourself.

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12 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Yes. The 3rd is incredibly important. I read that a 3rd Pfizer or Moderna jab gave you x 25 times more resistance.

This...just breaking now too:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/two-jabs-give-less-protection-against-catching-omicron-than-delta-uk-data-shows?

Demonstrates very strongly that everyone needs their 3rd vaccination (which I would prefer it to be called and NOT a booster...a matter of semantics I realise but an important distinction for me).

Yes edited my original post as when reading further it said 70-75.

The bbc article says 2 doesn’t stop you getting any symptoms, but still more likely to stop you getting severe symptoms.

Funny that the way the headlines read, it seems bad. When I read the bbc article, I thought it was positive - three has a 70-75 per cent chance of stopping you catching it. Two and three both likely to help significantly in avoiding hospitalisation (obvs if you’re elderly/vulnerable three more important than two).

Edit: to clarify, by “positive”, evidently not as “positive” as delta, but (hopefully from what we know so far) better than had been feared.

Edited by Aggy

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6 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Indeed we’ve all just been asked to work over Christmas and no holiday where possible, I reckon we will be playing cards.

You should come yourself to the COVID wards you would s*** yourself.

Wow. It was literally a stat from the bbc website. Need to calm down mate. Perhaps tell the bbc (who are just using actual stats from the trusts themselves) that they’re making it up?

 

Edited by Aggy

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