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Just now, Indy said:

I’m doomed, I just don’t know when or how, but I’m certainly doomed 😂

I'm just waiting for my own personal pfizer IV drip to just constantly keep me topped up 😆 I see that 4th jabs are already being discussed

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1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I'm just waiting for my own personal pfizer IV drip to just constantly keep me topped up 😆 I see that 4th jabs are already being discussed

Ready and waiting in Israel

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13 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Christ! Pagel with the good news!

 

Very surprising for an ISAGE member.

Will Omicron be a damp squib? not long before we find out.

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2 hours ago, Indy said:

I’m not, I’m being lead by the current findings from the WHO. We shall see, but the speed of spread means the hospitalisation and deaths also has a quicker lag.

By the way December is the start of higher malaria numbers I believe in Africa, so without knowing the reason for people being admitted we can’t place the blame on Covid. Everyone is tested on admission for Covid.

Unfortunately a 1000 in five days in Guaetang 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-07/s-africa-daily-covid-hospital-admissions-more-than-double

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7 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Very surprising for an ISAGE member.

Will Omicron be a damp squib? not long before we find out.

who knows, probably not but then compared to the doomsday forecasts given about Delta, it was a bit of a damp squib for us at least. Sure it's been a nuisance but we've had a relatively decent run from spring time really.

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Just now, Tetteys Jig said:

who knows, probably not but then compared to the doomsday forecasts given about Delta, it was a bit of a damp squib for us at least. Sure it's been a nuisance but we've had a relatively decent run from spring time really.

All gone quiet from those promoting how well it was going in France, Germany, etc etc.

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30 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Again I fully respect your view WBB you’ve been directly involved and have first hand knowledge and fully appreciate your inputs been brilliant. 💚💛I’d be a little sceptical as it says with Covid not because of Covid. Like I said there’s definitely more will be found in people admitted for other things no doubt as this one is a lot more transmissible, so if you had 10,000 in hospital last month with say 600 testing positive for Covid that number will likely be a hell of a lot higher per 10,000 people but it might still be that only 10,000 are in hospital. Really needs to be monitored at cause not with, so if the admissions are directly because of Covid not because you test positive with mild symptoms after being admitted for malaria…..

Time will tell but it’s all pointing to very mild symptoms and low deaths & hospitalisations. But heck we will certainly see.

Edited by Indy

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National

50,867 - 148

rate of increase of  8%    dropping back for second day. This weeks mini rise seems to have played out. We are now down on same day last week basis.

Local

Norwich   West rate             311.5      Local   R  estimated 0.9 - 1.1

    

N&N Patients  (falling)

07-12-2021                                18
06-12-2021 23
05-12-2021 22
04-12-2021 22
03-12-2021 20
02-12-2021 22
01-12-2021 26
 
   
   
   
 
 

Vax     

1st Dose      21,700              89% done                               Norwich numbers   77.7%        Booster rate 26.6

2nd Dose     29,437              81.1% done                                                                  71%


Booster     414,645     total          21,715,504                37.8%

In Hospital

07-12-2021                                 7,317
06-12-2021 7,339
05-12-2021 7,239
04-12-2021 7,143
03-12-2021 7,302
02-12-2021 7,401
01-12-2021 7,338
   

 

Edited by ricardo
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As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if you’re currently 13 you’ll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21.

Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasn’t given up smoking?

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Public Health Scotland asking people to postpone Christmas parties and go online for Nativity plays.

It’s strange they’ve had more restrictions yet aren’t doing very well, makes you question if they’ve actually followed the rules?

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2 hours ago, Aggy said:

As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if you’re currently 13 you’ll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21.

Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasn’t given up smoking?

New Zealand is just a dangerously unhinged country it’s best to ignore them tbh

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3 hours ago, Aggy said:

As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if you’re currently 13 you’ll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21.

Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasn’t given up smoking?

My dentist would only do the bare minimum on my teeth until I gave up smoking as he didn't see much point in him wasting his time or me wasting money. It was only when I went onto vapes did he fix them up. Turns out he was right as my gums were in a mess from all the tar leaching into them. Sometimes a kick up the backside like this works.

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56 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

New Zealand is just a dangerously unhinged country it’s best to ignore them tbh

Just wait until the fag smuggling starts. 

Are they going to criminalise under age smokers?

Seems nobody learned anything from the prohibition era.

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The BBC has an interesting calculator (?) embedded into one of its current articles which allows you to see hospital admissions in your area, waiting times etc.

Various different results, but one in my local nhs trust states in November 2021 they had 3,352 emergency admissions. In November 2019, they had 3,467 emergency admissions. There were around  300 more attendances at a&e this year, but around 100 fewer admitted.

The next Trust along did have more admissions in November 2021 (4,264 vs 3,913 in 2019). But in 2019, 44 per cent of those admissions needed to wait over 4 hours for a hospital bed. In 2021, only 33 per cent needed to wait that long (and that’s waiting for beds after admission, not waiting to be seen at a and e ). So more people didn’t have a bed after being admitted in November 2019 than November 2021.

 

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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Just wait until the fag smuggling starts. 

Are they going to criminalise under age smokers?

Seems nobody learned anything from the prohibition era.

To be honest, smoking is dying out anyway. Very few people my age smoke compared to my parents’ generation. And even fewer of my cousins’ generation seem to (they’re students). Booze on the other hand is still quite popular! 

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Reading that only 72% of residents in care homes had received their booster, so much for “Hancocks protective ring”……..as they say!!

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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Reading that only 72% of residents in care homes had received their booster, so much for “Hancocks protective ring”……..as they say!!

Afraid it’s worse for the home bound, it is believed 300,000 will need boosters. As I understand it the effort to get those vaccinated will finally begin in earnest next week.

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21 hours ago, Indy said:

No YF I haven’t and you nor I know what’s needed to be done! Hospitalisation are very low compared to the numbers infected with the delta variant which is at first report a down site more severe.

So I’ll go again to challenge the doomsters,, what exactly do you think needs to be done to slow it down?

1, stop everyone working? Millions of people need to travel to a work sites and mix, it’s just how it is.

2, stop people revelling? Goods are moved in massive bulk around the country do you want to stop all the deliveries?

3, stop people going shopping or going out at all? We still need to eat, see loved ones we care for etc.

4, stop education again?

Lets not beat around the bush, it’s not about slowing this strain, it’s R 2.5 to 4 in its transmission rates and is already in this country, it’s not going to be stopped.

Luckily over 20 million have already had three vaccines, vast majority have had two vaccines and this is going to stop the numbers hospitalised and deaths compared to other times we had big waves.

Additionally we now understand the treatments and hospitalisation time for Covid has been dramatically reduced.

So the reality is we’re totally unprepared in the way we live to prevent this from spreading, it’s like holding back a waterfall with a sieve, it’s heading our way and rather than think we can prevent this quick spread we need to have a plan to deal with it, if we really think more will be hospitalised then the nightingale hospitals should be implemented and additional staff put on standby.

WBB - just to say that I think December is the start of malaria in Africa and hospitalisation start to rise this time of year, so without actually knowing why patients are being hospitalised for we don’t know the true Covid numbers, as said anyone hospitalised is automatically tested for Covid.

I just don’t think there’s much more we can sensibly do, yes you can cancel parties, stop mass gatherings like sports events and cancel Christmas but it’s not going to stop the press of this variant.

 

1. No. Just wear high-grade masks. Frequent rapid tests at home.

2. No. Goods transportation has little to no impact on spread of disease. Frequent rapid tests at home.

3. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA air purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home.

4. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home.

In addition:

- test & trace & quarantine those who have been exposed fast and decisively

- monitor spread of variants with frequent sequencing

- Mandate booster shots for all

- Test all travelers to and from abroad, repeatedly, even those fully vaxxed. Quarantine until neg. result. Mandate daily rapid testing at hotels.

 

These measures are extremely cheap compared to alternative of mass death or mass lockdowns. It is extremely stupid that this extremely cost-effective and proven measures have not been implemented yet to full extent.

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On 09/12/2021 at 01:51, Tetteys Jig said:

who's footing the bill for this one? When does it end? When the entire world is at ZeroCovid? Then another pangolin will give us "Covid 20 - the squeakual"

 

Far from it, because we have a tool which is superior to any vaccine or in fact any measure there is or ever will be: High grade masks. How effective are masks?

95-99% effective -> both ways.

FFP2 (95% filtration): 1 / 0.05 x 0.05 = 400. -> From one person wearing a ffp2 mask to another wearing a ffp2 mask, it takes 400 times longer to deliver the same number of viral particles from one to the other compared to not wearing any masks

FFP3 (99% filtration): 1/ 0.01 x 0.01 = 10000 -> 10000 times longer to deliver same number of particles

Do you get it now?

We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions.

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Forget data from SA for a moment. Here is the best news:

Quote

Mask compliance in London increased from half to 90% - Sadiq Khan

The Mayor of London was speaking to Sky News this morning following the recent reintroduction of rules requiring masks on public transport.

Mr Khan said: "I' m really pleased the government changed their mind on taking away our powers … on 19 July we had good compliance, once the government changed the rules on 19 July I'm afraid there were fewer people wearing face masks on public transport.

"The good news is, over the last 10 days because we've had ... the ability to issue fines. The number of those wearing face masks on tubes, buses and trams has gone up hugely.

 

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-news-uk-latest-live-boris-johnson-party-new-rules-plan-b-covid-12469075

If 90% compliance is true, UK will crush delta and may be able to control spread of omicron until everybody have had their boosters. Caveat: universal mask use has to be implemented in schools. Boosters are absolutely necessary.

Edited by Upo

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19 minutes ago, Upo said:

We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions.

This  is so clearly true. I speak to Japan most days  - they are fed up with Covid too - but mask wearing is simply required etiquette and the polite civilized thing to do (rather like always wearing indoor slippers even at work) - as well as generally following the rules. 

Was it called the 'Miracle' of Japan a few weeks ago in the media.

Whether it will hold up against Omicron is another thing but it can only help.

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30 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This  is so clearly true. I speak to Japan most days  - they are fed up with Covid too - but mask wearing is simply required etiquette and the polite civilized thing to do (rather like always wearing indoor slippers even at work) - as well as generally following the rules. 

Was it called the 'Miracle' of Japan a few weeks ago in the media.

Whether it will hold up against Omicron is another thing but it can only help.

Absolutely I’ve been wearing my masks (high grade, not a face covering) for two years including at Carrow Road on my visits, throughout the two years now.

But when the inane politicians can’t even be bothered to wear them in parliament what does that say about them all?

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1 hour ago, Upo said:

 

Far from it, because we have a tool which is superior to any vaccine or in fact any measure there is or ever will be: High grade masks. How effective are masks?

95-99% effective -> both ways.

FFP2 (95% filtration): 1 / 0.05 x 0.05 = 400. -> From one person wearing a ffp2 mask to another wearing a ffp2 mask, it takes 400 times longer to deliver the same number of viral particles from one to the other compared to not wearing any masks

FFP3 (99% filtration): 1/ 0.01 x 0.01 = 10000 -> 10000 times longer to deliver same number of particles

Do you get it now?

We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions.

I've never denied that they don't work but they're certainly not a superior tool to vaccinations. I wear one when required and when I feel its suitable and isn't going to be impractical. Still isn't going to end the pandemic. Or are you thinking we all just wear masks all the time?

Edited by Tetteys Jig
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1 hour ago, Upo said:

 

1. No. Just wear high-grade masks. Frequent rapid tests at home.

2. No. Goods transportation has little to no impact on spread of disease. Frequent rapid tests at home.

3. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA air purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home.

4. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home.

In addition:

- test & trace & quarantine those who have been exposed fast and decisively

- monitor spread of variants with frequent sequencing

- Mandate booster shots for all

- Test all travelers to and from abroad, repeatedly, even those fully vaxxed. Quarantine until neg. result. Mandate daily rapid testing at hotels.

 

These measures are extremely cheap compared to alternative of mass death or mass lockdowns. It is extremely stupid that this extremely cost-effective and proven measures have not been implemented yet to full extent.

Those points you make are indeed to be followed, totally agreed, they’re for companies to enforce and pay for and people to implement themselves, you don’t need to be told these things.

This government has been utterly focused on themselves led by self promoting selfish guy with no focus on what’s best for the country, from Brexit to Covid he’s been utterly crap. The only thing we managed to do quicker was the vaccine roll out which others have caught up with.
But again you’re points are only relevant to a degree, this virus will still spread even with you measures, as you say delivery systems have little impact, I disagree, the volume off goods going through distribution centres and food production through to shelves and onto customers have massive chances of spreading the virus, you only need a couple with Covid to transmit the virus onto multiple goods, who really wipes everything delivered or from the shops thoroughly before handling them?

It’s the next variant, it’s going to spread as we are not as a population that obedient or disciplined as those Asian countries, as mandating vaccines you can’t, as much as I would like to see it from a personal view we live in a culture where freedom comes first. We can and should make it a stigma not to be vaccinated other than health reasons and limit those who choose not to be vaccinated everyday function in society, push them to be vaccinated, after all they also have a duty of care under living in society for others.

Edited by Indy
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10 minutes ago, Indy said:

Those points you make are indeed to be followed, totally agreed, they’re for companies to enforce and pay for and people to implement themselves, you don’t need to be told these things.

This government has been utterly focused on themselves led by self promoting selfish guy with no focus on what’s best for the country, from Brexit to Covid he’s been utterly crap. The only thing we managed to do quicker was the vaccine roll out which others have caught up with.
But again you’re points are only relevant to a degree, this virus will still spread even with you measures, as you say delivery systems have little impact, I disagree, the volume off goods going through distribution centres and food production through to shelves and onto customers have massive chances of spreading the virus, you only need a couple with Covid to transmit the virus onto multiple goods, who really wipes everything delivered or from the shops thoroughly before handling them?

It’s the next variant, it’s going to spread as we don’t as a population are not as obedient or disciplined as those Asian countries, as mandating vaccines you can’t, as much as I would like to see it from a personal view we live in a culture where freedom comes first. We can and should make it a stigma not to be vaccinated other than health reasons and limit those who choose not to be vaccinated everyday function in society, push them to be vaccinated, after all they also have a duty of care under living in society for others.

The crunch comes Indy if the NHS has to start to pick and choose who it can treat (triage).

Personally when it comes to that - no vaccine - then back of the queue (plus box of paracetamol). It was their choice.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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