Creative Midfielder 1,985 Posted November 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Mark .Y. said: It's the vaccinations part CM. If you look back on the chart I have recently posted you will see that, according to "Our World in Data" (which I did think was a good source) there is around 1% difference between the UK and France in percentage of population fully vaccinated, with Germany very close behind us. I'm not sure what @Well b back has used for his source. Although I don't use them that often I would agree that 'Our World in Data' seems a decent source and has quite a nice and flexible user interface but if that is what they are saying about the vacs then I think they've messed up. Not sure either what source @Well b back used but for example the Public Health figure for the UK tonight is 68.7% fully vaccinated whereas Public Health France are quoting 75%, so considerably more than 1% difference there. The only reason I can imagine why Our World in Data may have got it wrong is perhaps some confusion over number of jabs - France like a number of the Europeans have used some of the single jab vaccines so, I believe, have reached their higher proportion of full immunity with fewer jabs. Although counterbalancing that they have given certain groups 3 jabs (where the 3rd jab is not a booster but part of the original program). So the UK figure is actually described 'received two doses' whereas the French is described as 'Full immunity' which depending upon the individual and which vaccine they received can mean 1, 2, or 3 doses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark .Y. 351 Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said: Although I don't use them that often I would agree that 'Our World in Data' seems a decent source and has quite a nice and flexible user interface but if that is what they are saying about the vacs then I think they've messed up. Not sure either what source @Well b back used but for example the Public Health figure for the UK tonight is 68.7% fully vaccinated whereas Public Health France are quoting 75%, so considerably more than 1% difference there. The only reason I can imagine why Our World in Data may have got it wrong is perhaps some confusion over number of jabs - France like a number of the Europeans have used some of the single jab vaccines so, I believe, have reached their higher proportion of full immunity with fewer jabs. Although counterbalancing that they have given certain groups 3 jabs (where the 3rd jab is not a booster but part of the original program). So the UK figure is actually described 'received two doses' whereas the French is described as 'Full immunity' which depending upon the individual and which vaccine they received can mean 1, 2, or 3 doses. Yes, thanks for the reply, you may well be right, but it is all very confusing isn't it 🙂 Actually, I've just remembered @Barbe bleu post from a couple of days ago, the French apparently use a different definition : But in terms of 'fully vaccinated' the two nations define it differently. In the UK its two jabs; in France its two jabs or one jab and confirmed infection. That might be the reason for CMs 7-8% difference. That would probably explain the difference and why "Our World in Data" has a rider on their chart saying that "alternative definitions of full vaccination eg having been infected......... are ignored" Edited November 21, 2021 by Mark .Y. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 21, 2021 National 40,004 - 61 rate of increase of 9.4% over 7 days, . Rate of increase slows for fourth day Local Norwich rate 276.9 rate still falling All of Norwich down 10.7% N&N Patients 16-11-2021 27 down slightly from 30 Vax 1st Dose 24,994 88.3% done Norwich numbers 77.3% 2nd Dose 23,381 80.3% done 70.2% Booster 450,080 total 15,064,693 26.2% In Hospital 18-11-2021 8,079 17-11-2021 8,182 16-11-2021 8,435 15-11-2021 8,720 14-11-2021 8,565 13-11-2021 8,483 12-11-2021 8,619 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted November 21, 2021 Had my booster jab today in Nottingham. Big queue for walk ins but moved quickly, good to see plenty who are younger than me queuing for jabs . All done smoothly as usual. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 21, 2021 6 hours ago, ricardo said: National 40,004 - 61 rate of increase of 9.4% over 7 days, . Rate of increase slows for fourth day Local Norwich rate 276.9 rate still falling All of Norwich down 10.7% N&N Patients 16-11-2021 27 down slightly from 30 Vax 1st Dose 24,994 88.3% done Norwich numbers 77.3% 2nd Dose 23,381 80.3% done 70.2% Booster 450,080 total 15,064,693 26.2% In Hospital 18-11-2021 8,079 17-11-2021 8,182 16-11-2021 8,435 15-11-2021 8,720 14-11-2021 8,565 13-11-2021 8,483 12-11-2021 8,619 Great to see those hospital numbers still trending downwards, that's the real metric. Couldn't really care less if we got over 100k cases if hospitalisations remained low. Getting that booster jab is essential and we're up to 15m protected by that now. Hopefully up to double that by Christmas allowing a bit of room for the fools who refuse to take it to take a bed in hospital or worse. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KernowCanary 214 Posted November 22, 2021 Trust the BBC News website to cover the Dutch rioting and use a photo of fire and a motorbike doing a wheelie as its thumbnail. Not going to read the article, what with their fixtation with the phrase “It comes after……”, and other such buzzword boll*cks. Time to block their website from my web browser, as well as Twatter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,985 Posted November 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Mark .Y. said: Yes, thanks for the reply, you may well be right, but it is all very confusing isn't it 🙂 Actually, I've just remembered @Barbe bleu post from a couple of days ago, the French apparently use a different definition : But in terms of 'fully vaccinated' the two nations define it differently. In the UK its two jabs; in France its two jabs or one jab and confirmed infection. That might be the reason for CMs 7-8% difference. That would probably explain the difference and why "Our World in Data" has a rider on their chart saying that "alternative definitions of full vaccination eg having been infected......... are ignored" It is rather confusing but I'm not at all sure about @Barbe bleu's theory - the French defintely do it differently because as I said originally they use some 1 jab vaccines as well as the 2 jab and they also give some people 3 jabs as part of the original vaccination. If you want to take a look at VaccinTracker Covid19: number of French vaccinated - CovidTracker , it provides a pretty detailed desription of their program and I haven't seen any mention of anything other than vaccination. But if they have evidence that one jab plus confirmed infection provides very high levels of protection then I guess it would make perfect sense to regard that person as 'fully' vaccinated - and let's not forget that the French health system is generally reckoned to be the best in the world (although one or two Scandavians might want to argue about that) but if that is their policy then I would assume they know what they are doing. Of course there are differences in fine detail internationally across the whole piece about how data is recorded (the UK's 28 day rule for deaths for example) but clearly as far as the French are concerned anyway their fully protected proportion is significantly ahead of ours. Maybe that doesn't matter so much as how successful both countries are in getting the remaining unvaccinated parts of their population jabbed. They have also started on boosters but only lowish numbers so far - presumably because a quite large proportion over there will not yet have passed the 6 month point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 809 Posted November 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said: It is rather confusing but I'm not at all sure about @Barbe bleu's theory - the French defintely do it differently because as I said originally they use some 1 jab vaccines as well as the 2 jab I'll try to dig something out if I get time. It wouldn't have been due to the jannsen one jab vaccine, the numbers are so tiny as to be easily disregarded. There seems to be many ways of looking at the figures: total number of jabs; three, two ot one jabs per head of population; proportion over 12 with immunity. Most ways do though seem to have France at about 1-2% higher overall uptake than the UK. but UK appears to have much more 'immunity' in higher age groups- mainly due to boosters which havent really started yet in France (though as I have said before there is less demand for boosters there ar the number due to slower initial roll out) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 22, 2021 We look better on the vulnerable and elderly cohorts. France has vax'd a lot of young people who are at low risk. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 22, 2021 National 44,917 - 45 rate of increase of 8.4% over 7 days, . Rate of increase slows for fifth day Local Norwich West rate 259.6 rate still falling All of Norwich down 4.2% N&N Patients 16-11-2021 27 down slightly from 30 Vax 1st Dose 16,424 88.3% done Norwich numbers 77.3% 2nd Dose 13,892 80.3% done 70.4% Booster 237,995 total 15,331,311 26.7% In Hospital 19-11-2021 8,024 18-11-2021 8,092 17-11-2021 8,193 16-11-2021 8,445 15-11-2021 8,726 14-11-2021 8,569 13-11-2021 8,487 12-11-2021 8,623 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 22, 2021 England Booster uptake by age so far. 50-54: 55% 55-59: 60% 60-64: 59% 65-69: 70% 70-74: 82% 75-79: 91% 80+: 87% 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 22, 2021 Increases almost entirely schoolage now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 748 Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, ricardo said: Increases almost entirely schoolage now. To ensure I’m reading correct (as these graphs start to hurt my head)…. Total patients today 6374. Max number of covid patients during the pandemic was 33,594, on 22 Jan 21? Anyone got a chart showing the rises leading up to that many patients in Jan 21 from, say, October 2020? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 22, 2021 25 minutes ago, Aggy said: To ensure I’m reading correct (as these graphs start to hurt my head)…. Total patients today 6374. Max number of covid patients during the pandemic was 33,594, on 22 Jan 21? Anyone got a chart showing the rises leading up to that many patients in Jan 21 from, say, October 2020? Its all on the government site https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=overview&areaName=United Kingdom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,324 Posted November 23, 2021 On 20/11/2021 at 10:50, sonyc said: Agree with you here Indy. I doubt we will see a lockdown again (unless something catastrophic happens). The figures of infections are higher now than they ever were under the lockdown periods (Zoe). Vaccines work but they are expected, it feels, to do all the heavy lifting. I would prefer our government to provide a stronger message on mask wearing etc - not a sort of Draconian edict - especially whilst case numbers remain so high. I think this is needed. We read weekly now about the NHS and winter, about the pressure on non-Covid treatments but serious staff shortages in some areas too. Worryingly, staff are saying they are exhausted. These are not just sound bites from the popular press but the voices of senior staff nurses who run departments. They form a collective a voice I tend to listen to. The additional pressure this pandemic has caused on an already stressed sector (not forgetting the loss of nurses who have returned to Europe) is just not relenting. I'm much more hopeful for 2022 I have to say, yet the story that is the state of our health service, is going to fill many front pages in the next 4 months. Just must hope that the development of oral treatments can accelerate and that our immunity levels adapt well One cultural change I would like to see coming out of the Covid thing is for the continuation of hand-cleaning gel at the entrance to every shop and public building and it becomes second nature for everyone to take a little squirt as they pass by. Not only will it stop the spread of the covid virus but other illnesses as well. Could turn out to be an effective measure if it became a public habit. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,283 Posted November 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: One cultural change I would like to see coming out of the Covid thing is for the continuation of hand-cleaning gel at the entrance to every shop and public building and it becomes second nature for everyone to take a little squirt as they pass by. Not only will it stop the spread of the covid virus but other illnesses as well. Could turn out to be an effective measure if it became a public habit. Indeed a good few years ago my wife went through chemotherapy for cancer and it totally changed my focus since, I’ve always carried and used hand gels ever since, those who’ve gone through cancer will know. But totally agree, it’s good hygiene practice. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted November 23, 2021 15 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: One cultural change I would like to see coming out of the Covid thing is for the continuation of hand-cleaning gel at the entrance to every shop and public building and it becomes second nature for everyone to take a little squirt as they pass by. Not only will it stop the spread of the covid virus but other illnesses as well. Could turn out to be an effective measure if it became a public habit. Spot on RTB. Particularly if the last person to use your trolley or basket didn't bother. We take our own with us just in case, in any shop and our golf club still has it as you enter the club shop. Funnily enough, even though you are allowed to take the flags out now, nobody does. We have adapted and now it is the norm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 23, 2021 National 42,484 - 165 rate of increase of 8.7% now more or less flat over 7 days, Local Norwich West rate 242.3 rate still falling drop has flattened out but numbers fairly small. N&N Patients 16-11-2021 27 down slightly from 30 Vax 1st Dose 23,258 88.3% done Norwich numbers 77.3% 2nd Dose 18,517 80.3% done 70.4% Booster 308,166 total 15,639,477 27.2% In Hospital (almost flat over the past 5 days) 22-11-2021 8,088 21-11-2021 8,006 20-11-2021 7,913 19-11-2021 8,040 18-11-2021 8,093 17-11-2021 8,194 16-11-2021 8,447 15-11-2021 8,727 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KernowCanary 214 Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) Great, up it goes again just when we were going below 8,000. Man I hate this virus, but it’s clever with loads of tricks up it’s sleeve, I give it that. It seems the Delta version can thrive in the sun seeing Summer saw very little improvement. You keep threatening that lockdown Boris, while you go on about Peppa Pig, because I won’t be complying anymore. Edited November 23, 2021 by KernowCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 23, 2021 2 hours ago, KernowCanary said: Great, up it goes again just when we were going below 8,000. Man I hate this virus, but it’s clever with loads of tricks up it’s sleeve, I give it that. It seems the Delta version can thrive in the sun seeing Summer saw very little improvement. You keep threatening that lockdown Boris, while you go on about Peppa Pig, because I won’t be complying anymore. week on week the trend is still fine... there's patterns there, not sure why but maybe Wednesdays and Thursdays are big patient release days? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 23, 2021 While I'm here, I noticed the miracle of Japan has become a bit of a story recently... not sure what's going on there but the virus seems to have more or less disappeared. Sure they have higher mask compliance etc. but then why did it erupt in the first place? Seems an interesting development anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said: week on week the trend is still fine... there's patterns there, not sure why but maybe Wednesdays and Thursdays are big patient release days? There is variation by day of the week in case numbers, hospitalisations and deaths. This is mainly caused reporting problems with the smaller nations of the UK not reporting every single day. Some days the numbers cover two or even three days. Bad news from Europe continues, France over 30k tonight. Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria etc all at near record highs. Italy, Spain and Portugal climbing but from low base. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 23, 2021 54 minutes ago, ricardo said: There is variation by day of the week in case numbers, hospitalisations and deaths. This is mainly caused reporting problems with the smaller nations of the UK not reporting every single day. Some days the numbers cover two or even three days. Bad news from Europe continues, France over 30k tonight. Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Austria etc all at near record highs. Italy, Spain and Portugal climbing but from low base. is there any age breakdown data for European cases? Are we also still testing at a much higher rate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said: is there any age breakdown data for European cases? Are we also still testing at a much higher rate? I know Denmark and Austria have seriously upped their testing. Haven't seen any age related breakdowns yet. France has vaxxed most young people so I doubt their rise can be explained by school kids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CANARYKING 634 Posted November 23, 2021 Blimey 165 deaths Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KernowCanary 214 Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, CANARYKING said: Blimey 165 deaths It’s been common lately to see three figures every day sadly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 24, 2021 13 hours ago, CANARYKING said: Blimey 165 deaths significantly less than last weeks 214 deaths reported on 16 Nov so moving the right direction at least Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,734 Posted November 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said: While I'm here, I noticed the miracle of Japan has become a bit of a story recently... not sure what's going on there but the virus seems to have more or less disappeared. Sure they have higher mask compliance etc. but then why did it erupt in the first place? Seems an interesting development anyway. I think you answered your own questions - but as well as being a very compliant society vs masks which are obviously quite effective yet understated in constraining the disease they've really only vaccinated (to about 75%) in the last few months. Boosters I don't think have even been rolled out at all yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted November 24, 2021 25 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: I think you answered your own questions - but as well as being a very compliant society vs masks which are obviously quite effective yet understated in constraining the disease they've really only vaccinated (to about 75%) in the last few months. Boosters I don't think have even been rolled out at all yet. so why did it erupt so bad in the first place after months of solid containment? Did they start getting complacent or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,336 Posted November 24, 2021 Czechia 25k today, thats 160k UK population equivalent. ZOE still slowly rising. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
