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2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

So I assume the labs are still working on finding an even better vaccine. And maybe that will mean another booster in six months before anything is fruitful. It seems chaos will still reign for a while yet.

Remember that the waning immunity we are talking about is immunity from infection.  What matters more is immunity from disease, especially severe disease and I am not sure that there is any evidence that this declines.

Antibody levels in blood decline, its a fact of all infection. If they didn't we would have no blood in our blood, only antibodies. But even when the antibodies are all gone the memory persists. 

I'm pretty optimistic about our jabs.   The baseline protection they give won't, I think, be going anywhere soon

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28 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Thanks.

Are Wales and Portugal just coincidental I wonder or are they relaying that real world data. It does seem strange that Wales are a week past Israel 6 months before and they are hit in the same way, whereas Portugal looked at that data and went boosters at 5 months, which seems to have worked.

Despite morally being not sure about boosters ( only 5 African countries will hit the target of 40% vaccinated by the end of the year ) based on any study I have seen so far you need to get your booster as soon as you are eligible, don’t wait around. AZ could be because mainly older people had it, but equally it could be it drops off to a far greater extent in general.

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5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Remember that the waning immunity we are talking about is immunity from infection.  What matters more is immunity from disease, especially severe disease and I am not sure that there is any evidence that this declines.

Antibody levels in blood decline, its a fact of all infection. If they didn't we would have no blood in our blood, only antibodies. But even when the antibodies are all gone the memory persists. 

I'm pretty optimistic about our jabs.   The baseline protection they give won't, I think, be going anywhere soon

I am afraid I don’t think that’s correct. The real world data shows ( certainly in older people ) that your protection against hospitalisation and death goes exactly the same way as number of cases without a booster. Israel’s figures on the one hand are very disturbing, on the other hand very encouraging that the rest of the world get the opportunity to see what’s happening before it hits the world. Until 6 weeks ago these were theories, now they are realities, hence why I felt boosters were morally incorrect, but I now feel they are vital. 
If there is no falling immunity against hospitalisation and death then why give them and if these studies are not correct why are we having to import Pfizer at enormous cost ( 1.25% on national insurance ) when we could just boost with the cheaper AZ. 

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Until we get a delivery of a viable treatment in tablet form, which is still ongoing, this issue will continue. I’m not sure there’s going to be a short term fix, but could end up with wave after wave until natural immunity takes effect. I’m not sure I’ve seen any figures to say what the % is of catching Covid twice after having it once and what effect it has the second time!

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On 27/10/2021 at 09:48, It's Character Forming said:

Interesting BBC article here on case numbers in the UK, although it doesn't really mention comparative levels of testing which always are the first thing I think about when I see anyone talk about the UK having higher case numbers than other European countries.  Also it fails to mention the surprising way Covid has developed in the UK since restrictions were removed in mid-July, i.e. the totally unexpected decline in cases that followed in England, etc.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58954793?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

 

Also it's from a few days back, so doesn't discuss the fact that case numbers may have now peaked on the latest wavelet of infections.  Has "wavelet" always been a word or has it just appeared to describe a short-lived period of increase in Covid infections ?

Just another stupid word to add the MSM Covid Buzzwords Dictionary, up there with “Covidiot” and “Mingling”, which now seems to mean these days “Socialising with others when you shouldn’t”…….

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34 minutes ago, Indy said:

Until we get a delivery of a viable treatment in tablet form, which is still ongoing, this issue will continue. I’m not sure there’s going to be a short term fix, but could end up with wave after wave until natural immunity takes effect. I’m not sure I’ve seen any figures to say what the % is of catching Covid twice after having it once and what effect it has the second time!

Hi Indy

I think there is a tablet just out of trials that seems to cut hospitalisation by 1/3 for those at higher risk, taken as soon as you are positive. The richer nations have been queueing up to order, but they are insisting on giving it to the poorer unvaccinated countries first.

VW and others may correct me here but my understanding is your best immunity is 1st dose, 2nd dose, booster and getting it. Everything I have read however seems to suggest your immunity from catching it lasts around 3 months, just like our other similar friend the common cold. My colleagues who work on icu tell me Delta is a nasty little beast especially for the unvaccinated. Israel also shows that Delta is a nasty beast to those whose immunity is beginning to wane from vaccine protection. Catching it twice now seems quite common and you hear of lots of people infected for a 3rd time.

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I am afraid I don’t think that’s correct. The real world data shows ( certainly in older people ) that your protection against hospitalisation and death goes exactly the same way as number of cases without a booster. Israel’s figures on the one hand are very disturbing, on the other hand very encouraging that the rest of the world get the opportunity to see what’s happening before it hits the world. Until 6 weeks ago these were theories, now they are realities, hence why I felt boosters were morally incorrect, but I now feel they are vital. 
If there is no falling immunity against hospitalisation and death then why give them and if these studies are not correct why are we having to import Pfizer at enormous cost ( 1.25% on national insurance ) when we could just boost with the cheaper AZ. 

Inthibk you are partially correct:  a strong memory response combined with high levels of antibodies in circulation are better than memory alone but i think you underestimate the other immune components.

Besides which ans whatever the truth I frankly don't want to believe a theory that says that memory wanes as quickly as antibody levels as it is a theory that condemns millions to an early demise and the rest to an endless cycle of jabs 

The Pfizer or AZ thing i think is a bit of a red herring. AZ is doing a great job in preventing deaths and serious illness but pfizer gives a very strong b cell/antibody  response and we can more easily measure antibodies than t cells. So, as with all things, we have made important that which we can easily measure at the expense of measuring what is most important. 

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I hope you are right but unfortunately Israel and Portugal with real life data as opposed to studies and guesswork seem to show a picture that gives a different picture. Israel’s hospital and deaths go in the normal cycle ( in this case vaccinated people ) of case numbers going up substantially, followed by hospitalisation 10 days later and deaths 7 days after that. You then have Portugal who followed that data and went early ( no rises yet ) and Wales who didn’t following what happened in Israel. There is no real life data for AZ just those studies and I suppose we can hope AZ carries on protecting against hospitalisation and deaths and if there is the U.K. really need to come out and say what it is.

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10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Inthibk you are partially correct:  a strong memory response combined with high levels of antibodies in circulation are better than memory alone but i think you underestimate the other immune components.

Besides which ans whatever the truth I frankly don't want to believe a theory that says that memory wanes as quickly as antibody levels as it is a theory that condemns millions to an early demise and the rest to an endless cycle of jabs 

The Pfizer or AZ thing i think is a bit of a red herring. AZ is doing a great job in preventing deaths and serious illness but pfizer gives a very strong b cell/antibody  response and we can more easily measure antibodies than t cells. So, as with all things, we have made important that which we can easily measure at the expense of measuring what is most important. 

 

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

I hope you are right but unfortunately Israel and Portugal with real life data as opposed to studies and guesswork seem to show a picture that gives a different picture. Israel’s hospital and deaths go in the normal cycle ( in this case vaccinated people ) of case numbers going up substantially, followed by hospitalization 10 days later and deaths 7 days after that. You then have Portugal who followed that data and went early ( no rises yet ) and Wales who didn’t following what happened in Israel. There is no real life data for AZ just those studies and I suppose we can hope AZ carries on protecting against hospitalisation and deaths and if there is the U.K. really need to come out and say what it is.

 

Guys - I'd 'hoped' or my instinct was that protection (whether by vaccine or infection) was longer lasting (or dropped less perilously) than the recent real life data appears to currently show. We can argue about the mechanisms by all means but the real question is what to do about it? Clearly a large number of double-vaxers are being brought back into play by the virus much much quicker than we would of wished, plus it appears they can be as infectious in the early days as non-vaccinated. In short the virus is running rings round us and our wishful thinking.

What this whole debacle shows is that if you give this virus an inch it will take a mile. We have sadly in the UK thrown caution to the wind (some of us thinking 'lucky' trying to over-read sudden 'drops' in the last few days PCR data as opposed to ONS or even Zoe) as opposed to making tough decisions. We shouldn't base public health policy on 'Are you feeling lucky' machismo.

What I would point out is that presently, the main source of (re) infection appears to be in the young (hence a small possible hiatus in the half term) - being largely or incompletely vaccinated, and so the full effects of waning resistance in their elders is likely not as yet showing in the data - but all the red lights are clearly flashing and alarms sounding.

The obvious, sensible, adult thing to do is to hurry up all the boosters and vaccinations BUT given the unknowns reintroduce the light 'Plan B ' measures as of yesterday to slow progression. Anything else is now bordering on the criminally negligent.

One last passing thought. Have people considered that actually the masks and social distancing may actually be a much stronger effect than we realize in limiting spread? We always have these measures in conjunction with the vaccines (even much discussed Israel recently).

Anyway - some ONS data today will give truer picture without the froth.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

 

Guys - I'd 'hoped' or my instinct was that protection (whether by vaccine or infection) was longer lasting (or dropped less perilously) than the recent real life data appears to currently show. We can argue about the mechanisms by all means but the real question is what to do about it? Clearly a large number of double-vaxers are being brought back into play by the virus much much quicker than we would of wished, plus it appears they can be as infectious in the early days as non-vaccinated. In short the virus is running rings round us and our wishful thinking.

What this whole debacle shows is that if you give this virus an inch it will take a mile. We have sadly in the UK thrown caution to the wind (some of us thinking 'lucky' trying to over-read sudden 'drops' in the last few days PCR data as opposed to ONS or even Zoe) as opposed to making tough decisions. We shouldn't base public health policy on 'Are you feeling lucky' machismo.

What I would point out is that presently, the main source of (re) infection appears to be in the young (hence a small possible hiatus in the half term) - being largely or incompletely vaccinated, and so the full effects of waning resistance in their elders is likely not as yet showing in the data - but all the red lights are clearly flashing and alarms sounding.

The obvious, sensible, adult thing to do is to hurry up all the boosters and vaccinations BUT given the unknowns reintroduce the light 'Plan B ' measures as of yesterday to slow progression. Anything else is now bordering on the criminally negligent.

One last passing thought. Have people considered that actually the masks and social distancing may actually be a much stronger effect than we realize in limiting spread? We always have these measures in conjunction with the vaccines (even much discussed Israel recently).

Anyway - some ONS data today will give truer picture without the froth.

Important to remember today's ONS numbers relate back to a period when daily PCR case numbers were increasing in England, so if the ONS numbers also show increased case levels, that would support the PCR data, not contradict it. 

 

ONS data for the past week, when we've seen the daily PCR numbers peak and start to fall, won't come out for some time.  AFAIR the ONS data and the PCR data which relate to the same time periods have consistently shown the trend in infections going the same way.  It's just that sometimes when daily case numbers have climbed to a peak and started to fall, people have seized on some increasing ONS numbers which came out after the peak but related to the period before the peak.  Obviously we never have 100% certainty until well after the event (not even then, actually) but at the moment I'm confident the current decline in PCR daily cases reflects an actual decline in the real world and will be supported by the relevant ONS numbers when they eventually come out.

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45 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Important to remember today's ONS numbers relate back to a period when daily PCR case numbers were increasing in England, so if the ONS numbers also show increased case levels, that would support the PCR data, not contradict it. 

 

ONS data for the past week, when we've seen the daily PCR numbers peak and start to fall, won't come out for some time.  AFAIR the ONS data and the PCR data which relate to the same time periods have consistently shown the trend in infections going the same way.  It's just that sometimes when daily case numbers have climbed to a peak and started to fall, people have seized on some increasing ONS numbers which came out after the peak but related to the period before the peak.  Obviously we never have 100% certainty until well after the event (not even then, actually) but at the moment I'm confident the current decline in PCR daily cases reflects an actual decline in the real world and will be supported by the relevant ONS numbers when they eventually come out.

Zoe was still going up as of yesterday - may have slowed certainly. I can see lots of reasons why PCR tests might wobble around with the kids out - its very well known that they are off by a factor of 2 anyway and are only useful for 'headline' figures!

Edited by Emma Harrison

  1. Posted at 12:2012:20

    BREAKINGHighest level of infections ever reported across UK

    Estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey suggest that 1.3 million people in the UK would test positive for coronavirus in the week ending 22 October, the highest number since records began.

    This is 1.9% of the population – or one in 55 people – up from one in 60 last week.

    The ONS say the trend for estimated Covid-19 infections increased across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    The number of people estimated to be testing positive for Covid:

    • England: One in 50 v one in 55 last week
    • Wales: One in 40 v one in 45 last week
    • Northern Ireland: One in 75 v one in 130 last week
    • Scotland: One in 75 v one in 90 last week

    According to the latest daily figures from the government, cases have been falling this week with 295,549 testing positive in the last seven days, a drop of 9.8%.

Edited by Yellow Fever
ONS today. UP up and Up.!

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16 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hi KG

Nothing is certain with COVID as a Pfizer booster gets you into the high 90’s ( Israel and Portugal data ), however they are seeing the same trends already as last time after 2 months and Israel will consider dose 4 at 4 months after dose 3 if those trends carry out as per between dose 2 and 3. If you look at the Israel data you will see they got a big hit between 5 and 6 months, so won’t leave anything to chance this time round.

It is impossible to predict what COVID does next, but my concern is around December when we could be way behind with a mixture of the number of boosters that can be given and many not bothering as they don’t see why boosters are important. I see why the government are saying approaching 300,000 jabs a day, how wonderful is that, but 6 months ago we were approaching 900,000 jabs a day ( didn’t quite get there ). You have to bear in mind that there are less hubs and 1/2 the workforce as most people are back to their regular jobs, including nurses that are now recalled back to the wards. On Saturday most of us were working 7 day weeks with 12 hour shifts, either on the vaccine task force or doing their normal job Monday to Friday and vaccines at the weekend. I am finally having some time off this weekend to visit FCR on Sunday, then it’s back to 12 straight shifts. 

Thanks for all your good work WBB. Never mind people praising the Government. All they did was make decisions. Some not good obviously.

Looking at all the people making expert statements at the moment, the confusion still reigns in my head. Yes, we have to live with it the same as any other recurring virus. However, we have never offered anyone under pensionable age, a winter jab for all the other flu viruses. And this one will just be another addition to the growing list.

SO do we now offer every soul a winter jab? If so, the logistics of it say that the Government could not keep relying on goodwill to administer it. It would then require staffing or using outside agencies such as Boots who provide my winter flu jab.

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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Zoe was still going up as of yesterday - may have slowed certainly. I can see lots of reasons why PCR tests might wobble around with the kids out - its very well known that they are off by a factor of 2 anyway and are only useful for 'headline' figures!

Edited by Emma Harrison

  1. Posted at 12:2012:20

    BREAKINGHighest level of infections ever reported across UK

    Estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) survey suggest that 1.3 million people in the UK would test positive for coronavirus in the week ending 22 October, the highest number since records began.

    This is 1.9% of the population – or one in 55 people – up from one in 60 last week.

    The ONS say the trend for estimated Covid-19 infections increased across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    The number of people estimated to be testing positive for Covid:

    • England: One in 50 v one in 55 last week
    • Wales: One in 40 v one in 45 last week
    • Northern Ireland: One in 75 v one in 130 last week
    • Scotland: One in 75 v one in 90 last week

    According to the latest daily figures from the government, cases have been falling this week with 295,549 testing positive in the last seven days, a drop of 9.8%.

Exactly as I expected.  ONS numbers showing cases were rising in the week ending 22 October.  It seems likely cases peaked around a week ago and are now falling again in England.  The ONS numbers next week and the week after will hopefully confirm this, when they are showing data for this week, but these numbers can't tell us anything about whether we've now passed the peak or not, they're from an earlier period.  In the meantime, these ONS numbers have merely confirmed what was already clear from the daily PCR test data - which also showed rising case numbers then.

 

NB it's important to remember a further reason why ONS data lags behind is that the ONS data pick up the number of people (based on a random sample) with a case of Covid at the time, i.e. it's a snapshot and shows people who have an infection, but it may be at the start or end of the infection cycle.  Whereas the PCR tests happen when people get symptoms and take the test, which will therefore mean they tend to be earlier on in the infection cycle.  Hence the ONS survey lags further behind.

 

As for Zoe, I still report my health state on it every few days, but I've pretty much lost faith with it - they've had to recalibrate it every time it was showing a different outcome from the other data sources.  Also I've never got to the bottom of how up to date the Zoe information is.  So I pay it very little attention now.

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I don’t like to be negative @It's Character Forming but this week is not a good week for looking at the official results as the kids have not been getting their 2 tests per week picking up the a symptomatic cases. They may therefore be accurate or miles out.

Good or bad we will know where we are at the end of next week.

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I don’t like to be negative @It's Character Forming but this week is not a good week for looking at the official results as the kids have not been getting their 2 tests per week picking up the a symptomatic cases. They may therefore be accurate or miles out.

Good or bad we will know where we are at the end of next week.

Thanks WBB - actually Zoe dropped very very slightly today which is good.

What I'm trying to do is to stop people running away with a few odd results either way. Have some patience and let's see what's really happening with random sampling data. The 'hopeful' argument from some seems to be that Covid has peaked (but even the most LSH optimistic model suggests November - generally the pack of models have a peak much much later). It's just too much of coincidence that this 'drop' has coincided with schools out to say Covid is in retreat.

However, there should be a lull or pause or slowdown  in infections this week with the kids out (are they out in Scotland - arh we're back last week and ONS well got badly worse there?) but it will likely pick up again next week - may even be a 'catch-up effect'. So what we have is likely a pause but AMPLIFIED in the PCR by lack of testing giving an artificial overdone dip - much the same happened last July which although a small dip was in the eventual ONS data it was nothing at all like that in PCR test data!

As per the Sage reports and models VW put up - they clearly only take notice of the ONS data to inform them!

Edited by Yellow Fever
Added Scotland - kids back last week and well Scotland seems to have go a lot worse at week face value on ONS. Oh dashboard today - case down 12.7% (43.4K) , tests down 10.8% (last seven days)

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National

43,467 - 186

rate of decrease of 12.7% over 7 days,

decrease begins to speed up.

 

Local

Norwich rate 519.2  down 13.4% (7 days) peaked

patients in N&N 

26-10-2021                              38
25-10-2021 33
24-10-2021 28
23-10-2021 22
22-10-2021 22
21-10-2021 26
20-10-2021 26
 
   
   
   
   

Vax     

1st Dose      44,702             86.7% done                               Norwich numbers   75% 

2nd Dose     23,723             79.4% done                                                                  68.5%

Booster    297,656     total 7,293,638

In Hospital  (close to peak)

28-10-2021                                     8,983
27-10-2021 8,926
26-10-2021 8,829
25-10-2021 8,725
24-10-2021 8,411
23-10-2021 8,248
22-10-2021 8,268
 
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
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4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

More blue now beginning to appear, confirming we have peaked.

Image

Going down according to this fella I follow. Click for more responses.

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2 hours ago, Well b back said:

I don’t like to be negative @It's Character Forming but this week is not a good week for looking at the official results as the kids have not been getting their 2 tests per week picking up the a symptomatic cases. They may therefore be accurate or miles out.

Good or bad we will know where we are at the end of next week.

It is a fair point @Well b back but equally there's a temptation to try to "explain away" any decreases in case numbers as not real (while accepting increases at face value even when, e.g., they are from ONS data that are now well out of date - which we're still seeing even now).  We saw this after restrictions were relaxed in July and the daily PCR case numbers promptly fell, and a lot of explanations were put forward for why that might not reflect a real decline in case numbers, but it turned out that was backed up by the ONS numbers for the period when they did eventually come out, i.e. we can now be pretty sure case numbers did actually fall then (which was a surprise).  Certainly I agree we should be cautious, but the PCR numbers so far have been a good guide (and the leading indicator) of where Covid cases are going, so I remain optimistic that we have passed the peak, but certainly if we see them going sharply back upwards next week, I'll need a rethink.

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5 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

It is a fair point @Well b back but equally there's a temptation to try to "explain away" any decreases in case numbers as not real (while accepting increases at face value even when, e.g., they are from ONS data that are now well out of date - which we're still seeing even now).  We saw this after restrictions were relaxed in July and the daily PCR case numbers promptly fell, and a lot of explanations were put forward for why that might not reflect a real decline in case numbers, but it turned out that was backed up by the ONS numbers for the period when they did eventually come out, i.e. we can now be pretty sure case numbers did actually fall then (which was a surprise).  Certainly I agree we should be cautious, but the PCR numbers so far have been a good guide (and the leading indicator) of where Covid cases are going, so I remain optimistic that we have passed the peak, but certainly if we see them going sharply back upwards next week, I'll need a rethink.

You should know by now that when numbers go up it is nothing to do with increased testing but when they go down it is because of decreased testing😉

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42 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You should know by now that when numbers go up it is nothing to do with increased testing but when they go down it is because of decreased testing😉

Indeed you have u turned and forgotten to tell people that tests have decreased this week due to the kids not testing, which is of course the highest infected groups. Unless I am mistaken therefore you have done no different by not mentioning a possible very relevant fact, testing is down 11% and so are cases. You cannot tell wether the figures are are up, peaked or going down until 2 weeks time, so I am not disagreeing with you or Yellow Fever, but this very week last year the figures dipped dramatically and we all know what happened 2 weeks later. I pray the figures have peaked, so let’s hope you and the government figures do ring true.

My biggest concern at the moment is the boosters, that are now 7.5 million behind. I see the government have just simplified things and told us to do exactly what we have been doing for 3 weeks, ie being flexible with the 6 months, not waiting for appointments, getting to a walk in, you are not jumping the queue, there maybe some that jumped the queue initially, but now it’s 6 months. 6 months ago we were giving 867,000 jabs a day. 

 

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

You should know by now that when numbers go up it is nothing to do with increased testing but when they go down it is because of decreased testing😉

Oddly Ricardo I think it's you placing a regular spin on things.

Every increase is 'slow', 'steady' or a 'wavelet' being the latest term (as opposed to a storm or tsunami of new cases every day - 43K today is not insignificant). Every decrease is 'significant', end in sight etc. (for the last 12 to 15 months). One day of course you'll be correct - we all hope so as said before. However I've argued since the start that caution is the order of the day, 1 swallow a summer does not make and only trust the random sampled data. We all want to believe it's diminishing if we shut one eye to the data but that does make it true. Are we now still following Scotland?

As WBB says lets see what happens over the next couple of weeks - kids back and 'fermenting' and no other countervailing measures. Autumnal nights, Halloween and fireworks parties.  I suspect at best cases will still be plateauing and at worse Javid's 100K 'confirmed' PCR may be proved correct (as opposed to nearing 100K today anyway)!  

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Interesting article in the Economist about “how India beat Covid” or, as the article then says, “rather, how Covid beat India”. Basically early this year before their vaccine programme got going properly, the Delta variant took hold and they had massive case numbers which peaked early May and then dropped equally fast - I’ll try to copy the graph from the article . They hadn’t vaccinated many by then and they didn’t lock down so it appears the decline was due to natural immunity being acquired. But the cost was awful at an estimated 2.3m excess deaths. I suspect a similar picture applies to many parts of the world which don’t have as good data reporting as India. Antibody levels are now over 90%.

 

Hopefully now their vaccine programme is now in high gear this will boost their natural immunity so that Covid will continue in an endemic state but not worse.

 

This confirms my view we have to accept Covid is never going away so we have to accept ongoing case levels and it’s about managing them to stop the NHS getting overloaded. If anything it’s better, it seems to me, to have an ongoing level of Covid cases when your population is freshly vaccinated, otherwise you’ll just have them later when the vaccine benefit is waning. So new infections can be “too low” as well as “too high”, we need to manage the level of the disease and what’s critical is the level of cases in hospitals.

 

Restrictions such as WFH and ultimately lockdowns simply delay the disease, they don’t stop it. So we must save them for when they’re really needed, not as a panicky response every time case numbers go up.

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National

41,278 - 166

rate of decrease of 14.2% over 7 days,

decrease continues to speed up.

 

Local

Norwich rate 449.9  down 26.1% (7 days) now dropping sharply

 

Vax     

1st Dose      39,186             86.8% done                               Norwich numbers   75% 

2nd Dose     21,726             79.4% done                                                                  68.5%

Booster    270,785     total          7,564,723

In Hospital

28-10-2021                             8,983
27-10-2021 8,926
26-10-2021 8,829
25-10-2021 8,725
24-10-2021 8,411
23-10-2021 8,248
22-10-2021 8,268

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Decrease of what. UK residents?

Not with 1800/2000 new births every day in the UK

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52 minutes ago, Herman said:

Decrease of what. UK residents?

Doesn’t that happen every year around this time? 

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