Corona Virus main thread

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Blimey. The old "one rule for them and one for us" routine. That'll be a vote winner.

I can't actually believe they actually think like this. It needs leadership by example from the top (zero hope of that). 

Actually perhaps Johnson does think like this - Me Me Me - somebody mentioned opening temporarily Portugal for his honeymoon and of course India left off the red list for other obvious personal reasons. Sod the peasants - they'll vote for him anyway!

Edited June 29, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

And the idiot cannot accept that G7 has caused the increase in cases in Cornwall. 

5000 police. 10000 protesters. 400000 visitors.

He is just a lying half wit.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Blimey. The old "one rule for them and one for us" routine. That'll be a vote winner.

Got me thinking Herman. What we need is a Typhoid Mary to meet the cabinet. Huge economic benefit will follow.

[Herman 9,756]

26 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Got me thinking Herman. What we need is a Typhoid Mary to meet the cabinet. Huge economic benefit will follow.

It'll only take one of these tory donors, also known as senior executives, to come back from one of their business trips, ahem, and that's a lot of them out for a while. Not that I would want that to happen. 

[ricardo 7,385]

National

20479 -  23

Local

Norwich infection rate up by 0.7  to 47.7

Vax

1st Dose     127,260

2nd Dose     138,016

Hospital Inpatients

Finally updated last 3 days

	27-06-2021        1,585 26-06-2021 1,529 25-06-2021 1,525
	Admissions around 240 per day so most not staying long.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, ricardo said:

National

20479 -  23

Local

Norwich infection rate up by 0.7  to 47.7

Vax

1st Dose     127,260

2nd Dose     138,016

Hospital Inpatients

Finally updated last 3 days

	27-06-2021        1,585 26-06-2021 1,529 25-06-2021 1,525
	Admissions around 240 per day so most not staying long.

I keep asking the question.

Where do we go if the cases are still 20K, twice what they were when Freedom Day was cancelled, on 18 July?

We cannot just keep postponing.

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I keep asking the question.

Where do we go if the cases are still 20K, twice what they were when Freedom Day was cancelled, on 18 July?

We cannot just keep postponing.

Yes and you keep ignoring the answer.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 hours ago, Aggy said:

Yes and you keep ignoring the answer.

What is the answer? Just yours or are there others?

I'm not in any camp for or against restrictions but I know this can't keep happening no matter what the science says.

For instance, many of the schools in the urban areas of West Cornwall are closed because of the large number of cases since G7. As yet it hasn't been assessed by data of whether this is specific to children or isolating children, or teachers or isolating teachers. This is not good for parents taking time off etc. 

Luckily, the schools will be closing by the end of July but if cases are still high in September, how many will reopen?

Will a lifting of all restrictions cause an influx of holidaymakers to Cornwall and start another round of increased cases? If they don't lift them, will many of the seasonal businesses down here, already having to suffer a reduction in furlough payments, be able to reopen next year or will they remain closed forever?

People do not need to here May any more. They need to hear Will.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

22 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What is the answer? Just yours or are there others?

I'm not in any camp for or against restrictions but I know this can't keep happening no matter what the science says.

For instance, many of the schools in the urban areas of West Cornwall are closed because of the large number of cases since G7. As yet it hasn't been assessed by data of whether this is specific to children or isolating children, or teachers or isolating teachers. This is not good for parents taking time off etc. 

Luckily, the schools will be closing by the end of July but if cases are still high in September, how many will reopen?

Will a lifting of all restrictions cause an influx of holidaymakers to Cornwall and start another round of increased cases? If they don't lift them, will many of the seasonal businesses down here, already having to suffer a reduction in furlough payments, be able to reopen next year or will they remain closed forever?

People do not need to here May any more. They need to hear Will.

Hi KG. In truth we need to look much more closely at the data as currently it is very localized in hotspots - few cases (although growing) here in Norfolk by comparison. In simple extreme terms it makes no sense to take national averages where we have overwhelmed services in some areas and none elsewhere. I would like to know what hospitalization rate (and long Covid/chronic illness) we are actually recording in the typical hotspot without 'special' measures. That would be informative at least as to what we might eventually expect everywhere. Does it break back into the 'vulnerable' and typical lag times to show!

Another few weeks will allow more to be vaccinated and if by mid July we can answer some of these questions more fully in the positive then a tentative further opening up.

However only fools would ever say it is irreversible!

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

wimbledon is packed to the rafters, as was Wembley  and the hapless G7 summit. ' Business Leaders?' are to get special rules that allows them to skip quaratine and if you are part of the Government you can hug and kiss and fund your lovers from Taxpayers money.

Meanwhile you have problems trying to see/hug your loved one's if your relatives are close to death in a care home or hospital. Schools have record numbers of children isolating and schools are faced with having to conduct medical duties they have not being paid or trained for, for some considerable time to come.

Latitude is going ahead as are other festivals after 19th. July and if this internal mobility is disallowed when there are no significant changes in death rates, bar in some hot spots, a fair amount of people are going to get seriously upset and will ignore whatever these hypocrites say, after all its us who have been dancing to their abysmal tunes, its us locking down that have brought the death down.

It is this Government and their useless antics which are eroding our safety, causing death by the thousands whilst hiding behind the NHS's effort to vaccinate us, claiming that is they who are successful. YUK

[ricardo 7,385]

19 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I keep asking the question.

Where do we go if the cases are still 20K, twice what they were when Freedom Day was cancelled, on 18 July?

We cannot just keep postponing.

You need to stop calling them cases, they are just positives tests mostly with no symptoms. Look at the hospitalisations and deaths, nothing much happening as the virus meets the wall of immunity.

Further restrictions are pretty pointless so end it now.

Edited June 30, 2021 by ricardo

[ricardo 7,385]

National

26068 -  14

Local

Norwich infection rate up from 47.7 to 50.5

Vax

1st Dose     137,991

2nd Dose     150,688

Hospital Inpatients

 last 7 days up under 200 on the week

	29-06-2021        1,720 28-06-2021 1,722 27-06-2021 1,588 26-06-2021 1,531 25-06-2021 1,527 24-06-2021 1,507 23-06-2021 1,487 22-06-2021 1,534

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

You need to stop calling them cases, they are just positives tests mostly with no symptoms. Look at the hospitalisations and deaths, nothing much happening as the virus meets the wall of immunity.

Further restrictions are pretty pointless so end it now.

Beg pardon. Its true. Not completely convinced they are symptomless though.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

You need to stop calling them cases, they are just positives tests mostly with no symptoms. Look at the hospitalisations and deaths, nothing much happening as the virus meets the wall of immunity.

Further restrictions are pretty pointless so end it now.

The virus seems to be showing no signs of slowing its growth as one would expect if it was hitting a wall of immunity.

26000 today. Case curve is now taking off very quickly.

Perhaps cases can increase another tenfold or further before before it does  - and hospitalizations as well - who knows yet?

This is short answer to KG's question as we need to see this 'wall of immunity' start to turn the tide in cases before we can make any firm prediction on eventual hospitalization numbers. Caution not calamity.  

[Essjayess 307]

Looking at the infection map  i think Manchester and Edinburgh are the real hotspots and Scotland as a whole is now pretty bad to say the least. Interesting to see Norfolk and Suffolk area as a kind of final area where the Delta variant has not hit hard yet, but its on the doorstep  so to speak and expecting that 47.0 for Norwich  for example to be in the 100s very soon..next  couple of weeks it will hit our region without fail.

About deaths, while there has been an increase its been marginal and seems to suggest more and more as time goes by that the vax program has indeed saved counless lives..that above all is the most heartwarming news. Admissions  have risen from around 1500 to 1700 per week in the past few days..so rising but not  as yet fast.

So infections are now back to January  highs but seem to be infecting mostly young and unvaccinated but really not surprising that the rate is inceasing so fast now as its a different scenario...we are staying open for schools, shops etc and  the lockdown is now very slight compared to the first 2 waves..we are surfing, riding this wave but im hoping July 19th does not make us topple of our board.

[ricardo 7,385]

 

 

[Aggy 755]

7 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

What is the answer? Just yours or are there others?

I'm not in any camp for or against restrictions but I know this can't keep happening no matter what the science says.

For instance, many of the schools in the urban areas of West Cornwall are closed because of the large number of cases since G7. As yet it hasn't been assessed by data of whether this is specific to children or isolating children, or teachers or isolating teachers. This is not good for parents taking time off etc. 

Luckily, the schools will be closing by the end of July but if cases are still high in September, how many will reopen?

Will a lifting of all restrictions cause an influx of holidaymakers to Cornwall and start another round of increased cases? If they don't lift them, will many of the seasonal businesses down here, already having to suffer a reduction in furlough payments, be able to reopen next year or will they remain closed forever?

People do not need to here May any more. They need to hear Will.

Nothing to do with just my answer. It’s what the prime minister, new minister of health and virtually everyone else in the governing party who has mentioned covid in the last few weeks has been saying - hospitalisations and deaths are what’s important, not infections.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Aggy said:

Nothing to do with just my answer. It’s what the prime minister, new minister of health and virtually everyone else in the governing party who has mentioned covid in the last few weeks has been saying - hospitalisations and deaths are what’s important, not infections.

 

I thought they were guided by the science.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

11 hours ago, Aggy said:

Nothing to do with just my answer. It’s what the prime minister, new minister of health and virtually everyone else in the governing party who has mentioned covid in the last few weeks has been saying - hospitalisations and deaths are what’s important, not infections.

 

Yes well, given their appalling track record it isn't really a very compelling argument........

[Well b back 3,203]

About a month ago I questioned why we were not being told the symptoms for Delta were different. Maybe we will catch up over the coming days, at the moment most delta symptoms would not entitle you to a pcr test.

The UK's official list of Covid symptoms should be expanded as the existing one could be missing many cases, experts say. 

The most commonly-reported symptoms now are cough, headache and fatigue, an ONS survey has found.

Writing in the British Medical Journal, scientists say the list should follow other countries and include a wider range of conditions that have been linked to infections.

Dr Alex Crozier and colleagues suggest limiting testing to only people with fever, cough and a change in taste or smell could "miss or delay identification of many Covid cases". 

This could "hamper efforts to interrupt transmission" of the virus, they say.

Dr Crozier tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We've known for some time there are a broad range of symptoms, not just the core three... but there are headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, sore throat, chills amongst other things.

"These symptoms are currently more common."

A spokesperson for the Department of Health and Social Care said: "Since the start of the pandemic we have acknowledged Covid-19 has a much longer list of symptoms than the ones initially used in the case definition and our experts keep the list of symptoms under review."

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

About a month ago I questioned why we were not being told the symptoms for Delta were different. Maybe we will catch up over the coming days, at the moment most delta symptoms would not entitle you to a pcr test.

The UK's official list of Covid symptoms should be expanded as the existing one could be missing many cases, experts say. 

The most commonly-reported symptoms now are cough, headache and fatigue, an ONS survey has found.

Writing in the British Medical Journal, scientists say the list should follow other countries and include a wider range of conditions that have been linked to infections.

Dr Alex Crozier and colleagues suggest limiting testing to only people with fever, cough and a change in taste or smell could "miss or delay identification of many Covid cases". 

This could "hamper efforts to interrupt transmission" of the virus, they say.

Dr Crozier tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We've known for some time there are a broad range of symptoms, not just the core three... but there are headaches, fatigue, muscle aches, sore throat, chills amongst other things.

"These symptoms are currently more common."

A spokesperson for the Department of Health and Social Care said: "Since the start of the pandemic we have acknowledged Covid-19 has a much longer list of symptoms than the ones initially used in the case definition and our experts keep the list of symptoms under review."

 

Yep, I remember multiple reports, must have been at least a month ago, that the most common symptoms of the Johnson variant were significantly different to the ones apparent in the earlier variants. The point was also very clearly made that because the symptoms now very common with the Johnson variant were easily confusable with other bugs/complaints that unless they were highlighted as likely possible Covid then many possible cases wouldn't get tested and the spread increased which makes the government inaction even more inexplicable.

Must admit that I just laugh every time a government minister trots out the tired old lie that they're 'following the science' - not that its funny any more, we're way past that, but it is kind of quaint that they still think that they can peddle this nonsense and people will believe them  😂

[Upo 91]

Looks like Boris' regime is looking a short-cut into herd immunity by skipping the part where everybody is vaccinated twice.

If I was an evil supervillain who hates humanity and wanted to hurt as many people as possible, and completely ruin economy, I would partially vaccinate or infect as many people as possible and allow disease to spread just enough to not overwhelm health care system - because that would lead to lockdowns - but fast enough to ensure rapid spread of disease without risking suppressing the chains of contagion. The ultimate goal being the creation of a vaccine and "natural" immunity evading superstrain; with any luck considerably deadlier than before.

One efficient way - -perhaps the only way - to achieve this would be to play down/hide/lie about extent of spread among children and young people who get few symptoms, play down/hide/lie and deny long covid, organ damage, brain damage, depression, decrease in IQ, and other disabilities that symptomless infections cause in healthy children and young people, yet allow maximal spread of disease to society before action has to be taken.

Honestly, look into your hearts...is Delta - or Delta+ - the worst we can get? 

Of course not. We will get the apocalypse if we create a billion viral laboratories where virus is gradually and progressively trained to combat immunity. We are a few mutations and one ill-fated recombination away from 12 Monkeys.

[Upo 91]

11 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I thought they were guided by the science.

They've returned to their original plan which was to allow spread of disease. The gamble was the same then as it is now: That the human suffering is not enough to cause revolt or emergence of more infectious and deadlier strains.

[Upo 91]

28 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Must admit that I just laugh every time a government minister trots out the tired old lie that they're 'following the science' - not that its funny any more, we're way past that, but it is kind of quaint that they still think that they can peddle this nonsense and people will believe them  😂

You know, it is so difficult to see any upside to them for taking this gamble that it is hard to get into any other conclusion than this: They latched onto an obsolete epidemiological paradigm early on and at no point have reconsidered. They simply do not think there is an alternative to what they are doing. They've been caught off-guard by people's tolerance for human suffering is a lot lower than theirs.

It may be that they are not evil. It may be that they are insane by Einstein's definition: Doing the same thing expecting a different result.

[ricardo 7,385]

53 minutes ago, Upo said:

Of course not. We will get the apocalypse if we create a billion viral laboratories where virus is gradually and progressively trained to combat immunity. We are a few mutations and one ill-fated recombination away from 12 Monkeys.

The virus is doing what all virus's do over time, become progressively more contagious and less deadly. If this wasn't the case the human race would have long ceased to exist.

[Aggy 755]

12 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I thought they were guided by the science.

? What’s that got to do with whether we’re interested in hospitalisations or infections.

If “the science” suggests hospitals won’t be overwhelmed despite high numbers of cases, why would we need restrictions just because of how many cases there are? 
 

 

[Indy 3,297]

10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The virus is doing what all virus's do over time, become progressively more contagious and less deadly. If this wasn't the case the human race would have long ceased to exist.

Unfortunately the human nature is to panic……you know we’re all going to die of something! There’s too much emphasis on saving everyone at any expense. It shound be noted that there’s too many humans totally *******g up this planet as it is, so the real question which no one likes is should we allow nature to cull the human race as humans do all other species?

Edited July 1, 2021 by Indy

[ricardo 7,385]

17 minutes ago, Indy said:

Unfortunately the human nature is to panic……you know we’re all going to die of something! There’s too much emphasis on saving everyone at any expense. It shound be noted that there’s too many humans totally *******g up this planet as it is, so the real question which no one likes is should we allow nature to cull the human race as humans do all other species?

Here in the UK Covid is well on the way to becoming just another endemic disease like influenza etc, it will never go away entirely and will never be fully erradicated since coverage and effectiveness will never reach 100%. The focus should now be on aiding  unvaccinated countries that largely missed out on the earlier waves. S.America is currently in this position where even many of those partially vaccinated countries have been using the less effective vaccines from China and Russia.

Edited July 1, 2021 by ricardo

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

? What’s that got to do with whether we’re interested in hospitalisations or infections.

If “the science” suggests hospitals won’t be overwhelmed despite high numbers of cases, why would we need restrictions just because of how many cases there are? 
 

 

I'm sorry but I don't follow you.

You said its up to the PM. He says he is guided by the science.

Its not scientific to work out whether the hospitals are overwhelmed. I don't think deaths really affect the argument anymore.

There is clearly no leadership and plenty of buck passing.

 

[Indy 3,297]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Here in the UK Covid is well on the way to becoming just another endemic disease like influenza etc, it will never go away entirely and will never be fully erradicated since coverage and effectiveness will never reach 100%. The focus should now be on aiding  unvaccinated countries that largely missed out on the earlier waves. S.America is currently in this position where even many of those partially vaccinated countries have been using the less effective vaccines from China and Russia.

Indeed Ricardo, with time even the lesser effective vaccines will do a job, but we know that there’s more treatments every week, there’s advances in vaccines which certainly will suppress the virus and as you say viruses have been around for ever, we need to accept in an overcrowded world with easy links there’s always a a threat of this occurring again! 
But it’s a shame government and people don’t use the same energy on global warming and it’s effects which we are now seeing!