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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Agreed. I'd alluded to the same thing yesterday as changed its spots....

Don’t worry Hancock will think to tell us in a couple of months, can’t believe this is not being putting into the public domain, unless of course they are happy for delta to spread amongst the younger groups who are less likely to have the vaccine, and under 18’s who can’t.

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Just now, Well b back said:

Don’t worry Hancock will think to tell us in a couple of months, can’t believe this is not being putting into the public domain, unless of course they are happy for delta to spread amongst the younger groups who are less likely to have the vaccine, and under 18’s who can’t.

Yes they need to publicise this. Sore throat, runny nose... get tested. Sorry this was all part of why I like the random tests. It sees past these issues and even asymptomatic cases.

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Just now, Well b back said:

Don’t worry Hancock will think to tell us in a couple of months, can’t believe this is not being putting into the public domain, unless of course they are happy for delta to spread amongst the younger groups who are less likely to have the vaccine, and under 18’s who can’t.

Well it would achieve natural herd immunity in that age group! 😉😂 Let’s be sensible, not massive increase as predicted two weeks ago, the majority are in age groups not at any real risk and the vaccines certainly appear to be holding up as we all hoped.

Sensible measures in hotspots needed and I’d go as far as to offer AZ to ages 18 and above as an option to speed it vaccinations!

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1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes they need to publicise this. Sore throat, runny nose... get tested. Sorry this was all part of why I like the random tests. It sees past these issues and even asymptomatic cases.

Indeed, the trouble is it’s hay fever time and same symptoms! 🤔

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9 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Getting confused with all these numbers, percentages and graphs, Who is winning, vaccine or virus ?

Approaching Becher's Brook for the second time...........evidence atm is good for the vaccine, the jockey is still in the saddle and is riding the horse. Just dont want to blow it by the jockey taking the lead too early.

Edited by Van wink

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"Prof Whitty said there are areas of deprivation which have been repeatedly impacted by Covid-19.

“The geographical areas where Covid has hit have been extremely defined, where the biggest problems have been repeated.

“So, you see in situations in Bradford, in Leicester, in bits of London for example, in bits of the north west, you see repeated areas where places have been hit over and over again in areas of deprivation.

“Indeed in many of them, if you had a map of Covid’s biggest effects now and a map of child deaths in 1850, they look remarkably similar.

“These are areas where deprivation has been prolonged and deeply entrenched.”

He said the NHS needs to look at these areas and say “look, whatever happens, it’s going to happen badly here” whether it’s cardiovascular disease, cancer, or new infections."

Thats a pretty damning indictment of our attempts ( or lack of ) to deal with poverty, deprivation and failures in Public Health over a century and a half. These are not issues we have been unaware of but issues we have failed to address.

Edited by Van wink
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3 hours ago, Indy said:

Well it would achieve natural herd immunity in that age group! 😉😂 Let’s be sensible, not massive increase as predicted two weeks ago, the majority are in age groups not at any real risk and the vaccines certainly appear to be holding up as we all hoped.

Sensible measures in hotspots needed and I’d go as far as to offer AZ to ages 18 and above as an option to speed it vaccinations!

Interesting, it is my understanding and maybe I have it wrong that with the 2nd dose time scale reduced to 7-8 weeks and the government target of all second doses giving to the high risk categories by 19/7 we need large reserves of the Oxford vaccine so that second doses are prioritised. There should be no shortage of Pfizer as huge quantities are being made in the US and EU of which the US are using very little as a high % are yet to be persuaded to take the vaccines. We have just bought 60m more doses of Pfizer. Again as I understand it the EU are using very little Oxford yet are approaching 4.5 million doses per day and yesterday overtook the US in total doses issued ( 315 m to 314 m ). In addition I know lots of 18 - 24 year olds who are well happy to have their Pfizer jab ( they need to get abroad and to music festivals ) but would think about it if they had to have the Oxford vaccine ( my only evidence for that is our youngest son, his friends and people of that age I work with and meet in my job ).

As I say this is my understanding.

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As I have said the missing part of the jigsaw is treatments and now the US think that by winter they will have cures.

The U.S. invests billions in antiviral drugs

The U.S. will spend $3.2 billion on a new federal program to support the development of antiviral pills, which would fight the coronavirus early in the course of infection, potentially saving many lives in the years to come.

The program will speed up the clinical trials of a few promising drug candidates. If all goes well, some of those first pills could be ready by the end of the year.

The hope “is that we can get an antiviral by the end of the fall that can help us close out this chapter of the epidemic,” said Dr. David Kessler, the chief science officer of the Biden administration’s Covid-19 response team.

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23 minutes ago, Well b back said:

As I have said the missing part of the jigsaw is treatments and now the US think that by winter they will have cures.

The U.S. invests billions in antiviral drugs

The U.S. will spend $3.2 billion on a new federal program to support the development of antiviral pills, which would fight the coronavirus early in the course of infection, potentially saving many lives in the years to come.

The program will speed up the clinical trials of a few promising drug candidates. If all goes well, some of those first pills could be ready by the end of the year.

The hope “is that we can get an antiviral by the end of the fall that can help us close out this chapter of the epidemic,” said Dr. David Kessler, the chief science officer of the Biden administration’s Covid-19 response team.

There has always been a pretty limited choice of antiviral drugs so hopefully the research and development will  have spin off benefits for the treatment of a whole range of viral infections, if we can afford the drugs of course!

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8 hours ago, Van wink said:

"Prof Whitty said there are areas of deprivation which have been repeatedly impacted by Covid-19.

“The geographical areas where Covid has hit have been extremely defined, where the biggest problems have been repeated.

“So, you see in situations in Bradford, in Leicester, in bits of London for example, in bits of the north west, you see repeated areas where places have been hit over and over again in areas of deprivation.

“Indeed in many of them, if you had a map of Covid’s biggest effects now and a map of child deaths in 1850, they look remarkably similar.

“These are areas where deprivation has been prolonged and deeply entrenched.”

He said the NHS needs to look at these areas and say “look, whatever happens, it’s going to happen badly here” whether it’s cardiovascular disease, cancer, or new infections."

Thats a pretty damning indictment of our attempts ( or lack of ) to deal with poverty, deprivation and failures in Public Health over a century and a half. These are not issues we have been unaware of but issues we have failed to address.

Indeed. Spot on. And it's why this 'levelling up' will remain just a slogan. Have lived now over 40 years in one of those districts. In fact, I've personally been involved in public service jobs (with countless other colleagues) where we've tried to make a difference, both regionally and locally. And 40 years of attempts have failed let me tell you. My career has been a failure on that level (I ought to note I won't be too hard on myself because on a one to one or individual level  I dedicated myself to always do my best). But, the answer, the solution is a structural one. Only temporarily can change be made. It never lasts because of prevailing socio economic conditions. It's framed my whole world view. 

Now I know why the miners in Wales and Yorkshire fought and lost their 'war' (even though you could argue they gained communities and other important things in life). It's why Marmot is worth listening to and countless other anthropologists and longitudinal studies. Norfolk has its rougher areas but will always be more blessed than say metropolitan parts of West Yorkshire.

We need a massive campaign to find new purposes for places. We need not a conservative or a labour answer to all this inequality but a whole change in mindset about what we want a country to be like. Such health and economic differences and chasms in inequality do none of us any good in the long term. Everyone is affected (apart from the super rich). 

This bl00dy pandemic has exposed all this even more. But my idealism is for once deserting me because I don't yet see any change on the horizon. Indeed I see the opposite with this current administration.

One little light this morning is the by election result. That seems like the people have tactically said enough is enough. There IS a decent country there underneath this all. The volunteerism is another 'movement' that is a force for good. The NHS another (I had to finish on a positive).

Anyway I ought now to be having my morning coffee (probably tea actually) and relax a bit!

Edited by sonyc
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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Indeed. Spot on. And it's why this 'levelling up' will remain just a slogan. Have lived now over 40 years in one of those districts. In fact, I've personally been involved in public service jobs (with countless other colleagues) where we've tried to make a difference, both regionally and locally. And 40 years of attempts have failed let me tell you. My career has been a failure on that level (I ought to note I won't be too hard on myself because on a one to one or individual level  I dedicated myself to always do my best). But, the answer, the solution is a structural one. Only temporarily can change be made. It never lasts because of prevailing socio economic conditions. It's framed my whole world view. 

Now I know why the miners in Wales and Yorkshire fought and lost their 'war' (even though you could argue they gained communities and other important things in life). It's why Marmot is worth listening to and countless other anthropologists and longitudinal studies. Norfolk has its rougher areas but will always be more blessed than say metropolitan parts of West Yorkshire.

We need a massive campaign to find new purposes for places. We need not a conservative or a labour answer to all this inequality but a whole change in mindset about what we want a country to be like. Such health and economic differences and chasms in inequality do none of us any good in the long term. Everyone is affected (apart from the super rich). 

This bl00dy pandemic has exposed all this even more. But my idealism is for once deserting me because I don't yet see any change on the horizon. Indeed I see the opposite with this current administration.

One little light this morning is the by election result. That seems like the people have tactically said enough is enough. There IS a decent country there underneath this all. The volunteerism is another 'movement' that is a force for good. The NHS another (I had to finish on a positive).

Anyway I ought now to be having my morning coffee (probably tea actually) and relax a bit!

Where is the Big Society or the One Nation now? Swept up with all the other discarded promises.

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

 

One little light this morning is the by election result. That seems like the people have tactically said enough is enough. There IS a decent country there underneath this all. The volunteerism is another 'movement' that is a force for good. The NHS another (I had to finish on a positive).

 

Totally agree.

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8 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Whiity at it again today, fourth wave on the way, seems the tide is always coming in.

I think he's more Cnut that the reversal of the middle two letters. If the waves are coming in, they're coming in, best we make sure the sea defences are up to the job this time.

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1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Well they can eat the 50 odd tonnes of food going to waste after G7.

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well they can eat the 50 odd tonnes of food going to waste after G7.

How many free school dinners does that amount to I wonder?

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3 hours ago, sonyc said:

Indeed. Spot on. And it's why this 'levelling up' will remain just a slogan. Have lived now over 40 years in one of those districts. In fact, I've personally been involved in public service jobs (with countless other colleagues) where we've tried to make a difference, both regionally and locally. And 40 years of attempts have failed let me tell you. My career has been a failure on that level (I ought to note I won't be too hard on myself because on a one to one or individual level  I dedicated myself to always do my best). But, the answer, the solution is a structural one. Only temporarily can change be made. It never lasts because of prevailing socio economic conditions. It's framed my whole world view. 

Now I know why the miners in Wales and Yorkshire fought and lost their 'war' (even though you could argue they gained communities and other important things in life). It's why Marmot is worth listening to and countless other anthropologists and longitudinal studies. Norfolk has its rougher areas but will always be more blessed than say metropolitan parts of West Yorkshire.

We need a massive campaign to find new purposes for places. We need not a conservative or a labour answer to all this inequality but a whole change in mindset about what we want a country to be like. Such health and economic differences and chasms in inequality do none of us any good in the long term. Everyone is affected (apart from the super rich). 

This bl00dy pandemic has exposed all this even more. But my idealism is for once deserting me because I don't yet see any change on the horizon. Indeed I see the opposite with this current administration.

One little light this morning is the by election result. That seems like the people have tactically said enough is enough. There IS a decent country there underneath this all. The volunteerism is another 'movement' that is a force for good. The NHS another (I had to finish on a positive).

Anyway I ought now to be having my morning coffee (probably tea actually) and relax a bit!

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

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16 minutes ago, horsefly said:

How many free school dinners does that amount to I wonder?

Can you stop derailing this thread with non covid issues. Plenty of other threads for you to post your nonsense. Keep this about Corona virus. 

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6 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

Much of that boils down to our antiquated electoral model that has little to do with democracy and everything to do with oligarchy. So much compromising on beliefs has to be done that you end up with the confused mess we have now.

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Much of that boils down to our antiquated electoral model that has little to do with democracy and everything to do with oligarchy. So much compromising on beliefs has to be done that you end up with the confused mess we have now.

Completely agree but as with the other problems I referred to - a lot of us don't like it but we tolerate it, and pretty passively IMO, so it ends up defining us as a country because the tone and the direction of a country, just as in most organisations, is set at the top.

We at the top have an amoral, incompetent and generally pretty unpleasent set of people in government, who as you slightly kindly put it have delivered a 'confused mess' - it is a complete/confused mess but it isn't entirely accidental, it is also cloaking something much nastier.

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4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Happy to, when you apologise to the child rape victims of Jeffrey Epstein for calling them "well paid prostitutes". Oh! and when you also stop the homophobic, misogynistic, anti-disability, and racist comments you make with no relevance to anything other than your own degenerate hatreds.

I come to the Corona virus thread for news and to listen to serious discussions, plenty of other threads for your guff. 

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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

I come to the Corona virus thread for news and to listen to serious discussions, plenty of other threads for your guff. 

You never contribute anything but your disgusting prejudices and your hideous apologising for a convicted paedophile. If you think I'm going to let you get away with that think again. The fact you have never apologised for your degenerate comments says everything anyone needs to know about what sort of morally depraved individual you are.

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So “the science” today showing one vaccine decreases chances of hospitalisation by 75 per cent, regardless of variant.

Running out of things to keep waiting three weeks for (every three weeks) aren’t we? 

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Excellent news


AstraZeneca has claimed victory in its legal case against the EU after a court in Brussels found that the bloc should not be given priority over other countries for jabs.
The judge at the Brussels court ordered that AstraZeneca deliver 80 million doses of its vaccine by the end of September, well below the 300 million that the European Commission had been seeking.
It dismissed EU claims that it should have exclusivity or right of priority over all other countries that AstraZeneca had struck deals with.
AstraZeneca said it had already delivered 70 million doses of its jabs and was set to "substantially exceed" the 80.2 million doses it was being ordered to.

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3 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Great post and I agreed with virtually every word until you said 'There IS a decent country there underneath this all' - there I'm afraid we diverge sharply. There are certainly still decent people in the country, quite a lot of them, but collectively and speaking of the country as a whole I don't think you can realistically call us anything like decent.

Leaving aside that we have now on several occasions voted in totally amoral governments, culminating 18 months ago in the most venal government this country has ever had, what about the litany of truly indecent actions and policies that have been enacted in our name by 'our' government for the last 11 years - I won't bother to repeat the litany because we all know it so well, and whilst many of us haven't liked or supported it and may even have protested a bit about some of it, the fact remains that we have tolerated it and a sizeable minority have enthusiastically endorsed it.

I'm afraid that doesn't meet my definition of a civilised or decent country in the 21st century.

My post was about failure to progress since the mid C 19, not like you to turn it into a rant against the current Tory Government, a view which actually I have sympathy with, but for your postings it’s like a record stuck in a single groove.

The issue is about successive governments of all political persuasions failing to deal with health inequalities, a much bigger issue than partisan political point scoring.

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Posted at 15:1315:13

England's highest case rates among 16-24s

0eac2832-5825-4622-a05b-6fa5d611a855.jpg

Robert Cuffe

BBC head of statistics

Rates of coronavirus infection in England are highest in the North West, the Office for National Statistics estimates.

About 0.55% of people are testing positive there, with the next closest Yorkshire & the Humber at 0.25%.

No other English region has rates above 0.2%.

There are possible signs of a decrease in the percentage of children testing positive in school years 7 to 11.

The highest rates are in the group between school year 12 (16-year-olds) and those aged 24, which sees 0.5% testing positive, and among 25 to 34-year-olds - at 0.4%.

About 0.2% of younger children would test positive and about 0.1% of older adults would test positive, the ONS says.

 

I think there are very easy explanations for a pause or lull like this - School 1/2 term holidays just passed!

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25 minutes ago, Van wink said:

My post was about failure to progress since the mid C 19, not like you to turn it into a rant against the current Tory Government, a view which actually I have sympathy with, but for your postings it’s like a record stuck in a single groove.

The issue is about successive governments of all political persuasions failing to deal with health inequalities, a much bigger issue than partisan political point scoring.

My post  reply to yours was that its not about the Tories or Labour (or anyone else as such) but a national purpose  needed in sorting out our structural problems. Something I feel quite strongly about (as you'll have gathered).

That said, this government with talk of 'levelling up' is quite a deceit. A deceit that needs to be highlighted.

The pandemic has shone quite a light onto the issue and Whitty's comments have some depth to them. Will anyone listen though. 

Edited by sonyc

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18 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

The pandemic has shone quite a light onto the issue and Whitty's comments have some depth to them. Will anyone listen though. 

I hope they do sonyc, public health has been a "Cinderella" service certainly throughout my career and for eons before. The problem is it is rarely seen as a high on the political agenda as there are no quick fixes ( votes ) in the short term. It takes something like this to focus the mind, as in John Snow turning off the cholera,  my fear is it will all be forgotten as quickly as it arose.

Edited by Van wink

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