Corona Virus main thread

[Well b back 3,202]

I have an update for you @sonyc

Germany has said all under 60’s given AZ as dose 1 will have a different vaccine as dose 2. France, Finland and Norway are likely to follow suit.

[Aggy 755]

29 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Me to, however unfortunately we know from the COS thread the US launched their first attack on AZ in October/ November, after the Brazil incident. Had AZ been the only COVID vaccine this would not be seen as any sort of problem. As it is it is not the only vaccine and as much as I support Oxford 100% if I was a young girl offered a choice Pfizer or AZ I wager not many would pick AZ. Other countries may not be as forgiving of “ a rare event “ as we are due to choice. 
Good news however is we are nearly done and AZ is not as vital as it was in December in the U.K.

Depends how rare the issues are. I’m not convinced this would have been seen as a none issue even if there were no other jabs.

There was a uni of Cambridge article a while ago suggesting healthy 30-34 year old women had a 1 in 350,000 chance of dying from covid during the peak nine weeks of the pandemic (when transmission was highest). As transmission is now massively lower, the death risk is going to be quite a lot smaller than at the peak - could easily be 1 in 750,000 or lower chance of dying from covid for 30-34 year olds. I can’t find figures on under 30s (haven’t looked too hard) but presumably lower than 30-34 year olds.

The BBC is suggesting it could be 1 in a million chance of dying from a blood clot as a result of the vaccine. That’s for everyone, so if there is evidence it affects under 30s more, then it could easily be 1 in 750,000 chance of dying for under 30s.

Those figures are of course guesswork, but especially as we don’t know what else might be found, this is a new vaccine etc. I’m not sure we’d be dismissing it as a none issue even if there were no other vaccines. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I have an update for you @sonyc

Germany has said all under 60’s given AZ as dose 1 will have a different vaccine as dose 2. France, Finland and Norway are likely to follow suit.

do they even know that works? thought the trial on mixing vaccines isn't done until May?

[Barbe bleu 823]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I have an update for you @sonyc

Germany has said all under 60’s given AZ as dose 1 will have a different vaccine as dose 2. France, Finland and Norway are likely to follow suit.

The UK data shows no blood clots after second dose as far as I know (albeit the number of second doses is obviously small, especially in the unded 60s). If the euro data is the same this is an interesting step  given mixing is unproven (I guess though that at least some of the antigens/binding sites used are the same hence they can in theory be mixed).

 

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

Depends how rare the issues are. I’m not convinced this would have been seen as a none issue even if there were no other jabs.

There was a uni of Cambridge article a while ago suggesting healthy 30-34 year old women had a 1 in 350,000 chance of dying from covid during the peak nine weeks of the pandemic (when transmission was highest). As transmission is now massively lower, the death risk is going to be quite a lot smaller than at the peak - could easily be 1 in 750,000 or lower chance of dying from covid for 30-34 year olds. I can’t find figures on under 30s

A fair point. As we cannot disprove causation we should take a balance of risks approach and this will be personal to individual  characteristics 

We switched polio vaccines to a less effective but incredibly marginally safer version because of the changing balance of risks when the virus was no longer in circulation. Seems a sensible thing to do here if-and its a big if- a switch to another vaccine or no vaccine  also switches the balance.

And for WBB - we are where we are because of AZ,.it has saved many, many lives.  Whatever the outcome of this your favourite came good

 

 

[chicken 2,624]

6 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think though that one of the concerns raised by YF is that if AZ use gets restricted is there not also a reason to do likewise for all vaccines built the same way?

Although no expert, and no doubt there are some better qualified about to answer this than me, I doubt that.

The reason being is that the AZ vaccine is one of the variants based on traditional vaccine methodology. So if it was the way it was 'built' it would have been an issue many years ago. It is more likely to be the parts that make it if that makes sense?

As a care worker, I had my 2nd jab of Pfizer on Friday. First jab just gave me a dead arm, which I am not sure is attributed to the vaccine or the jab itself. 2nd was the same really but I woke up a bit groggy the next morning. I would definitely take their advice and make sure you hydrate plenty as I think that was my main downfall. Felt fine after taking on a bit of fluid and some paracetamol.

No ill effects otherwise and boy is 5G grand!!! 😆

[sonyc 5,511]

12 hours ago, Well b back said:

I have an update for you @sonyc

Germany has said all under 60’s given AZ as dose 1 will have a different vaccine as dose 2. France, Finland and Norway are likely to follow suit.

Thank you WBB. That is a very interesting development. Much more to come on the subject of mixing I think (and very soon it would appear).

Whilst here I will share some more graphs. Again, they provide perspective.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

18 hours ago, ricardo said:

No, I was told to wait for NHS to contact me which they did yesterday by text. I followed a link online and booked the first appt available today. Easy peasy.👍

Hope you are feeling well today, hold on tight and get out there for a beer on Monday👍

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Thank you WBB. That is a very interesting development. Much more to come on the subject of mixing I think (and very soon it would appear).

Whilst here I will share some more graphs. Again, they provide perspective.

 

Excellent graphs used yesterday summing up the situation very nicely

[Van wink 2,994]

First time below 2000 in a long time

[ricardo 7,384]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Hope you are feeling well today, hold on tight and get out there for a beer on Monday👍

Slightly sore arm last night but gone now, just like the first jab.

Long time since I've been to the pub🍻

[Tetteys Jig 830]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

First time below 2000 in a long time

was 1922 yesterday... after the mad decreases the last few days it wasn't ever going to last forever. Hopefully the trend downwards still continues. I'd imagine we'll get a nice week of "official" reported cases for the upcoming week now.

[CANARYKING 637]

21 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Just seen a FB message from Reydon Surgery saying they can’t guarantee the second jab even if you have an appointment already booked.. I have an appointment in nine days time what do I do if they have no stock of the one I need ?

Message has been clarified - anybody who was given a second date when they had the first should check with their own Surgery as supplies have not been guaranteed , I most cases it will be a day or two either way

[ricardo 7,384]

954 fatalities in Poland yesterday.

 

[ricardo 7,384]

National

3030 - 53

Local

Nowt doing

Back up to over half a million with jab no 2 rapidly increasing.

[Barbe bleu 823]

16 hours ago, chicken said:

Although no expert, and no doubt there are some better qualified about to answer this than me, I doubt that.

The reason being is that the AZ vaccine is one of the variants based on traditional vaccine methodology. So if it was the way it was 'built' it would have been an issue many years ago. It is more likely to be the parts that make it if that makes sense?

As a care worker, I had my 2nd jab of Pfizer on Friday. First jab just gave me a dead arm, which I am not sure is attributed to the vaccine or the jab itself. 2nd was the same really but I woke up a bit groggy the next morning. I would definitely take their advice and make sure you hydrate plenty as I think that was my main downfall. Felt fine after taking on a bit of fluid and some paracetamol.

No ill effects otherwise and boy is 5G grand!!! 😆

I would agree if I thought the technology was established, but I dont think it is. 

As far as I know the AZ vaccine was the first to use a viral vector.  

Not saying you are wrong. In fact I really hope you are correct and we do find that if there is a link it is due to one tiny easily changed thing.  The world needs this vaccine type.

Anyway glad you are in the club now!

Edited April 8, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Comment on BBC last night was that if all the people vaccinated had been given a course of aspirin then that would cause significantly more blood clots that have been recorded for the AZ vaccine. 

[Van wink 2,994]

 

"More than 700,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been sent to Australia despite a shortage of jabs in the UK.

Australia’s vaccine rollout was boosted by a shipment from Britain that was kept quiet to avoid controversy, according to reports in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock, on Thursday morning, did not deny the 717,000 doses manufactured in the UK had been sent to Australia but said it was not the Government who made the shipment.

"No, the British Government has a contract with seven companies now, but of course including AstraZeneca, for the delivery by AstraZeneca to the UK for us to deploy through the NHS, and that's the bit I'm responsible for."

Mr Hancock told Sky News: "In terms of what the companies do, these companies are manufacturing for all around the world and we source from everywhere in the world, so what I'm in control of, what matters for us as the UK Government, is making sure that we get the supplies that we have got contracted from the companies."

[Mark .Y. 352]

Well, I guess if they were contracted to supply it........................

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Mark .Y. said:

Well, I guess if they were contracted to supply it........................

Absolutely and I am glad that the right thing was done.

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

Comment on BBC last night was that if all the people vaccinated had been given a course of aspirin then that would cause significantly more blood clots that have been recorded for the AZ vaccine. 

As mentioned earlier though, the risks of developing blood clots appear from some reports to be higher in younger people - apparently women under 30 in particular. Very few of all the people vaccinated so far are women under 30. I don’t think anyone is saying it shouldn’t be used at all. Some countries and experts are suggesting though that it isn’t used in younger people until we’re sure it isn’t going to kill more than it saves.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

https://mobile.twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1380098817782116352

Apparently to go for #zerocovid all you had to do was say that you are whilst lifting all restrictions... what a strange take this is.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

5 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1380098817782116352

Apparently to go for #zerocovid all you had to do was say that you are whilst lifting all restrictions... what a strange take this is.

That does seem daft. And what is a public health measles approach? I’m pretty sure measles is still endemic but controlled/suppressed by vaccination which is what I expect to happen with Covid, and given how prevalent it is across the globe I simply don’t think a strategy to eliminate Covid like smallpox is realistic in the near future. Maybe in 12 months we’ll have an idea of whether it’s practical.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

7 hours ago, Aggy said:

As mentioned earlier though, the risks of developing blood clots appear from some reports to be higher in younger people - apparently women under 30 in particular. Very few of all the people vaccinated so far are women under 30. I don’t think anyone is saying it shouldn’t be used at all. Some countries and experts are suggesting though that it isn’t used in younger people until we’re sure it isn’t going to kill more than it saves.

 

Yes I agree, I think the point about aspirin is that we use lots of medication with side effects all the time without thinking about it.

 

But yes it does look like the blood clots may well be a genuine issue with younger women and certainly enough to make it worth giving them other vaccines at the moment.

[Van wink 2,994]

5 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

Yes I agree, I think the point about aspirin is that we use lots of medication with side effects all the time without thinking about it.

 

But yes it does look like the blood clots may well be a genuine issue with younger women and certainly enough to make it worth giving them other vaccines at the moment.

Yes, the whole process has been about risk analysis, not a zero risk strategy, which is what some other countries have tended towards, for their own good reason, but for us looking at how we can reduce the risk for as many people as we can with the resources we have. So far in relation to vaccine we have done this analysis really well imo and in fairness to Government they have followed the advice of their experts. The analysis has now changed due to the blood clot reports and the introduction of alternative vaccines and so we can adjust our approach.

As for side effects, I suspect there may be an incredibly small link between AZ and the rare thrombosis we have seen, but the technology for AZ has been around a while and used worldwide and this type of vaccine has not shown any serious problems previously or long term so I believe there is little to fear, mRNA technology is new and to be honest much less is known about potential long term implications. So its swings and roundabouts really. The most important reality is the only way we are going to beat the virus is through vaccination so whichever vaccine we are offered we should welcome it with open arms.

[ricardo 7,384]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

The most important reality is the only way we are going to beat the virus is through vaccination so whichever vaccine we are offered we should welcome it with open arms.

I just raised my sleeve.😉

[Van wink 2,994]

32 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I just raised my sleeve.😉

Probably best, don’t want the nurses getting the wrong idea 😁

[Van wink 2,994]

"France has told under-55s to abandon the AstraZeneca jab for their second dose and have another vaccine instead.

Olivier Véran, the country's health minister, said the new advice will be that rival vaccines Moderna and Pfizer should be used for this age group at their second appointment.

An official announcement by the French health regulator is expected later today."

 

Does anyone know if the outcome of any trials on mixing vaccines has been reported anywhere?

Where is the evidence to support this decision?

I dont believe there has been any incidence of problems following second dose of AZ vaccine, in the slim chance that there was a problem it would have shown after the first jab, does anyone know any different to this?

 

 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

Well I am now a fully paid up member of the two dose AZ club and proud of it.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

I see J&J now under similar investigation - clots.

Also - 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/08/almost-all-dutch-made-astrazeneca-doses-will-stay-in-eu-says-brussels

As expected. At least it will help expedite most of the oldies in Europe vaccinated quicker.

[BigFish 1,986]

17 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1380098817782116352

Apparently to go for #zerocovid all you had to do was say that you are whilst lifting all restrictions... what a strange take this is.

Not really, or at least not for anyone who has been paying attention. Zero Covid was always about rapid, extreme but highly targeted restrictions. Sridhar has been consistent, way back to the time where the government was toying with herd immunity

Pretty much how Smallpox was eradicated

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by BigFish