Corona Virus main thread

[Aggy 747]

50 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

at the same time we are looking at basically keeping people's lives on hold until they are vaccinated. This is where the problems lie when we are basically vaccinating people in the younger age groups mainly for the benefit of the greater good (reducing transmission).

If I hadn't had my first dose already, I'd be extremely uncomfortable with the discriminatory idea of vaccine passports whilst not even being given the option to weigh up the risks and benefits of taking the first available vaccine to be able to safely get on with my life.

I don't understand why they can't just keep it optional since it's such a rare risk anyway.

I presume we are pinning our hopes on a mass load of J and J being approved and giving that to young people instead.

Perhaps it's time to ship our AZ supplies to other countries and leave enough for 2nd doses and then be realistic with the potential impact it may have on our roadmap if that's the way they are going?

I get there is a link to certain groups and we don't know everything yet but the risk is so tiny compared to the potential risk of another Covid wave, especially when we hear of 1.1m long covid sufferers as well.

It just feels like we are tapping the ball round the edge of the box trying to score the perfect goal rather than just being direct.

The way that the impact of lockdowns and distancing is so seemingly dismissed as if we can just carry on like this for a while yet is incredibly disturbing.

I think everything I’ve heard suggests you won’t need covid passports for day to day stuff - shops, bars, restaurants, cinemas. You might need something like a covid passport for larger events but you can also just have a test. So really the “passport” idea seems to be little more than a way of saving money for venues (who then won’t need to spend money on testing people if they’ve already had the vaccines).

But yes, I refrained from adding to my post that if it does transpire the Astra Zeneca jab unduly affects under 30s, then it makes even more of a mockery of a true covid passport idea. You can only go to the cinema if you first risk getting a blood clot on your brain to help old people not die from something else (that you yourself have virtually nothing to worry about).

I don’t know how high the blood clot risk is, but if fairly high then I expect they’ll only use other vaccines for younger people. I don’t think that will delay getting back to normal life though. Seems pretty clear to me that the government are well aware that they need to offer alternatives to a “passport” such as testing, not least because a passport scheme is going to take months to develop - and if we don’t have anything in the interim then frankly it will be too late to bother with a passport anyway. 

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I think everything I’ve heard suggests you won’t need covid passports for day to day stuff - shops, bars, restaurants, cinemas. You might need something like a covid passport for larger events but you can also just have a test. So really the “passport” idea seems to be little more than a way of saving money for venues (who then won’t need to spend money on testing people if they’ve already had the vaccines).

But yes, I refrained from adding to my post that if it does transpire the Astra Zeneca jab unduly affects under 30s, then it makes even more of a mockery of a true covid passport idea. You can only go to the cinema if you first risk getting a blood clot on your brain to help old people not die from something else (that you yourself have virtually nothing to worry about).

I don’t know how high the blood clot risk is, but if fairly high then I expect they’ll only use other vaccines for younger people. I don’t think that will delay getting back to normal life though. Seems pretty clear to me that the government are well aware that they need to offer alternatives to a “passport” such as testing, not least because a passport scheme is going to take months to develop - and if we don’t have anything in the interim then frankly it will be too late to bother with a passport anyway. 

 

The sentence about going to the cinema is absolutely spot on there. Couldn't have phrased it better myself.

[Herman 9,691]

21 hours ago, ricardo said:

Word on the street has it that Moderna will start beeing used by 3rd week in April.👍

This week in Wales by the sounds of it. 👍

[Barbe bleu 809]

On 03/04/2021 at 12:02, sonyc said:

Good post. Paul is a pure troll. I say that because there is no attempt to answer any points or challenges. The subject matter of posts is shall I say 'one dimensional'. I don't mind people speaking about the EU negatively but it wears a bit thin after a while. The more it gets posted the more I reckon the poster doesn't actually believe in his message. Why keep repeating something? And the same thing!

Perhaps we can insert a background colour on our posts (or font) to save time 😆...mine could be a gentle shade of green. Then people could ignore you immediately seeing the colour.

BB, you can stay in the black!

At risk of making this a love-in I am going to say  'you too' on the last comment! Genuinely enjoy your thoughts and, if it's the right word,  to see the 'drama' in how you challenge your own thoughts and pre conceptions. 

It's good that the zealots and propagandists (on both sides) have largely stayed away from here.   Long may it remain 

[Herman 9,691]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

This week in Wales by the sounds of it. 👍

Today even. 👍👍

[Barbe bleu 809]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

This week in Wales by the sounds of it. 👍

Scotland had a delivery on Monday the BBC is reporting.

It's obviously great from a domestic perspective but internationally the world cannot rely on the mRNA vaccines.  The clouds over AZ (and possibly viral vector vaccines generally) need to dissipate if we are to see this thing off.

[ricardo 7,328]

Just had jab no 2.👍

[sonyc 5,481]

Well done Ricardo. Still no reactions available from last night's excitement!

Have come here to share the usually informative Murdoch graphs, this time on excess deaths. The comments are a useful read too for a bit more perspective.

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,175]

From America ( not Europe ). EMA to make statement this afternoon. I suspect it will be a small change in guidance, but depends on sequencing which we know nothing about ie is it all young women on contraceptive pill, we just do not know.

Shifting commentary on AstraZeneca’s vaccine

Regulators may soon issue their first formal warnings about AstraZeneca’s vaccine and rare blood clots, threatening to cloud the critical global rollout of a cheap and easy-to-store vaccine, after a top vaccine official at the European Medicines Agency said that there did appear to be a link.

The agency said it would meet this week to consider updating its guidance, but it has not formally changed its formal advice, issued last week, that the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh the risks.

By the numbers: The clots are, by all accounts, exceptionally uncommon, with 44 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, 14 of them fatal, among 9.2 million people who received the vaccine — equivalent to a risk for one in every 100,000 people under 60 given the vaccine.

[Well b back 3,175]

54 minutes ago, Herman said:

Today even. 👍👍

Yes as I advised the delays were only 9 days to first doses not a month as a certain poster was saying.

Europe had huge deliveries of it this week, which is good news for the world effort.

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

From America ( not Europe ). EMA to make statement this afternoon. I suspect it will be a small change in guidance, but depends on sequencing which we know nothing about ie is it all young women on contraceptive pill, we just do not know.

Shifting commentary on AstraZeneca’s vaccine

Regulators may soon issue their first formal warnings about AstraZeneca’s vaccine and rare blood clots, threatening to cloud the critical global rollout of a cheap and easy-to-store vaccine, after a top vaccine official at the European Medicines Agency said that there did appear to be a link.

The agency said it would meet this week to consider updating its guidance, but it has not formally changed its formal advice, issued last week, that the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine outweigh the risks.

By the numbers: The clots are, by all accounts, exceptionally uncommon, with 44 cases of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, 14 of them fatal, among 9.2 million people who received the vaccine — equivalent to a risk for one in every 100,000 people under 60 given the vaccine.

We may well end up with a vaccine hierarchy based to some extent on age of recipient, at least in its most basic form.

interesting that EMA maybe not so enamoured with the ethical basis of the Sputnik trial, maybe getting cold feet as they say in Yakutsk

[Van wink 2,994]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Just had jab no 2.👍

Good man, no cartwheels !!

[Well b back 3,175]

14 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We may well end up with a vaccine hierarchy based to some extent on age of recipient, at least in its most basic form.

interesting that EMA maybe not so enamoured with the ethical basis of the Sputnik trial, maybe getting cold feet as they say in Yakutsk

A good job this didn’t happen in the trials it at least got us through our main vaccination programme. 
See MHRA are now reviewing and the trial in children paused. 
Such a sad day.

[Well b back 3,175]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Just had jab no 2.👍

Well done, and welcome to the 2 dose club.

Hopefully same efficacy after 12 weeks as 3 as the Israel results in the field are nothing short of sensational.

[ricardo 7,328]

31 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Well done, and welcome to the 2 dose club.

Hopefully same efficacy after 12 weeks as 3 as the Israel results in the field are nothing short of sensational.

Ten weeks and four days between my doses.

[sonyc 5,481]

This is quite a big deal isn't it?

How will alternatives be offered? Can they be? And to WBB...do you think we may see mixing of jabs and might this be just as effective?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/07/under-30s-in-uk-should-be-offered-alternative-covid-vaccine-to-astrazeneca-jab-says-regulator?

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by sonyc

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

This is quite a big deal isn't it?

How will alternatives be offered? Can they be? And to WBB...do you think we may see mixing of jabs and might this be just as effective?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/07/under-30s-in-uk-should-be-offered-alternative-covid-vaccine-to-astrazeneca-jab-says-regulator?

 

I suspect that actually follows what others had already been thinking. J & J,  Moderna are or are becoming available soon. Only issues I have is that whereas Moderna is Pfizer like (mRNA)  - J & J (one shot) is an adenovirus not unlike the AZ. 

What we need to honestly know is do any of the others have any extremely rare side effects else it is a false premis to change.

Either way it can only slow our own roll out if AZ isn't used for under 30s but probably in-line with original promises - by end of August.

[ricardo 7,328]

National

2763 - 45

Local

All clear in NR2

Ramping back up after Easter Hols.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

6 hours ago, ricardo said:

Ten weeks and four days between my doses.

did you have to book your 2nd appointment separate or was it all booked first time around?

[Tetteys Jig 830]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I suspect that actually follows what others had already been thinking. J & J,  Moderna are or are becoming available soon. Only issues I have is that whereas Moderna is Pfizer like (mRNA)  - J & J (one shot) is an adenovirus not unlike the AZ. 

What we need to honestly know is do any of the others have any extremely rare side effects else it is a false premis to change.

Either way it can only slow our own roll out if AZ isn't used for under 30s but probably in-line with original promises - by end of August.

I suspect we have got a bit lucky really that we got the old and vulnerable all sorted and had a bit of a delayed April anyway. Moderna and J&J will mainly do the last bit for us.

It would be good if people under 30 at least get the option to "risk it" if they choose though to get sorted quicker but hopefully soon it shouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully it doesn't affect the booster they are making for the variants to be rolled out in early autumn as well.

[Barbe bleu 809]

9 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I suspect we have got a bit lucky really that we got the old and vulnerable all sorted and had a bit of a delayed April anyway. Moderna and J&J will mainly do the last bit for us.

It would be good if people under 30 at least get the option to "risk it" if they choose though to get sorted quicker but hopefully soon it shouldn't be an issue.

Hopefully it doesn't affect the booster they are making for the variants to be rolled out in early autumn as well.

I think though that one of the concerns raised by YF is that if AZ use gets restricted is there not also a reason to do likewise for all vaccines built the same way?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

33 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think though that one of the concerns raised by YF is that if AZ use gets restricted is there not also a reason to do likewise for all vaccines built the same way?

I'm not specific to that but I do wonder if other vaccines have as yet come under so much scrutiny - especially when you might not know what you're looking for with such very rare conditions. For the record I'm more than happy with AZ.

Adenovirus vaccines (AZ, J&J, Sputnik etc.) are all modified virus's in themselves and possibly have more original 'baggage' than pure mRNA.

[CANARYKING 634]

Just seen a FB message from Reydon Surgery saying they can’t guarantee the second jab even if you have an appointment already booked.. I have an appointment in nine days time what do I do if they have no stock of the one I need ?

[ricardo 7,328]

1 hour ago, Tetteys Jig said:

did you have to book your 2nd appointment separate or was it all booked first time around?

No, I was told to wait for NHS to contact me which they did yesterday by text. I followed a link online and booked the first appt available today. Easy peasy.👍

[Well b back 3,175]

4 hours ago, sonyc said:

This is quite a big deal isn't it?

How will alternatives be offered? Can they be? And to WBB...do you think we may see mixing of jabs and might this be just as effective?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/07/under-30s-in-uk-should-be-offered-alternative-covid-vaccine-to-astrazeneca-jab-says-regulator?

 

Hi Sonyc

I always thought they might be but not so certain at the moment. The Oxford Sputnik trials seemed to be going amazingly well, but of course Russia ( as is US ) are launching attacks on AZ. 
There must be a further link with AZ ie women and the contraceptive pill or something. You would think andenovirus was 1 link, but there are no reports of the clots with others. If the link is found that would be great. 
Just feel it lucky that this did not happen in the trials, as you will be aware the Brazil event nearly did for it, and there really was no link at all.

[Well b back 3,175]

2 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Just seen a FB message from Reydon Surgery saying they can’t guarantee the second jab even if you have an appointment already booked.. I have an appointment in nine days time what do I do if they have no stock of the one I need ?

Are you sure it is from them ?. The second dose vaccine has been stored last 3 weeks and where I help we had a huge Pfizer delivery today for second doses. The slow down in the letter I saw was for 9 days, and I would be shocked if they offer you something else unless they know of trial data not yet released. I will speak to the Walsall lead Tomorrow for you and see if they know of any problems, but I don’t think they will as we have delivery dates next 3 weeks.

[Well b back 3,175]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'm not specific to that but I do wonder if other vaccines have as yet come under so much scrutiny - especially when you might not know what you're looking for with such very rare conditions. For the record I'm more than happy with AZ.

Adenovirus vaccines (AZ, J&J, Sputnik etc.) are all modified virus's in themselves and possibly have more original 'baggage' than pure mRNA.

Hi YF

I maybe wrong and happy to be corrected but my understanding is that plenty of Sputnik has been administered throughout the world, including countries that have reported the AZ problem. JandJ will have huge usage in Europe and America before it is available here. Our next one is Novovax.

I still think there will be a further link as the current problem is specifically women, young - they just need the next bit of the jigsaw, contraceptive pill, previous clot something that links them.

[sonyc 5,481]

28 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hi Sonyc

I always thought they might be but not so certain at the moment. The Oxford Sputnik trials seemed to be going amazingly well, but of course Russia ( as is US ) are launching attacks on AZ. 
There must be a further link with AZ ie women and the contraceptive pill or something. You would think andenovirus was 1 link, but there are no reports of the clots with others. If the link is found that would be great. 
Just feel it lucky that this did not happen in the trials, as you will be aware the Brazil event nearly did for it, and there really was no link at all.

Thanks WBB. I have to say I'm still a supporter of AZ. There  obviously appears 'some' link between the incidents. But we were told (and I reckon we intuitively knew) that there would be stories emerging before the vaccines hit the ground running of people becoming ill and correllating the two things. Also, there appear no stories of 'issues' with Pfizer et al. I reckon there have always been these concerns in the history of vaccines. I'm reading too tonight of many women who are asking questions about the pill. And I believe the linkages to clots in this drug have been well trailled. As for other substance risks there is sugar! Alcohol! And so on.

Radio 4 Today answered my question about mixing your vaccines! At the moment it's not advised but clinical trials are underway (as you'd have guessed they would) and maybe by summer we will know more. My son is due his 2nd AZ jab in a week. I am sure he will take it.

Edited April 7, 2021 by sonyc

[CANARYKING 634]

38 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Are you sure it is from them ?. The second dose vaccine has been stored last 3 weeks and where I help we had a huge Pfizer delivery today for second doses. The slow down in the letter I saw was for 9 days, and I would be shocked if they offer you something else unless they know of trial data not yet released. I will speak to the Walsall lead Tomorrow for you and see if they know of any problems, but I don’t think they will as we have delivery dates next 3 weeks.

Now been told to ring my own surgery, will let you know what happens 

[Well b back 3,175]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thanks WBB. I have to say I'm still a supporter of AZ. There  obviously appears 'some' link between the incidents. But we were told (and I reckon we intuitively knew) that there would be stories emerging before the vaccines hit the ground running of people becoming ill and correllating the two things. Also, there appear no stories of 'issues' with Pfizer et al. I reckon there have always been these concerns in the history of vaccines. I'm reading too tonight of many women who are asking questions about the pill. And I believe the linkages to clots in this drug have been well trailled. As for other substance risks there is sugar! Alcohol! And so on.

Radio 4 Today answered my question about mixing your vaccines! At the moment it's not advised but clinical trials are underway (as you'd have guessed they would) and maybe by summer we will know more. My son is due his 2nd AZ jab in a week. I am sure he will take it.

Me to, however unfortunately we know from the COS thread the US launched their first attack on AZ in October/ November, after the Brazil incident. Had AZ been the only COVID vaccine this would not be seen as any sort of problem. As it is it is not the only vaccine and as much as I support Oxford 100% if I was a young girl offered a choice Pfizer or AZ I wager not many would pick AZ. Other countries may not be as forgiving of “ a rare event “ as we are due to choice. 
Good news however is we are nearly done and AZ is not as vital as it was in December in the U.K.