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32 minutes ago, Indy said:

It’s a decent read and certainly shows how each area has gone about it, it should be highlighted that some EU countries are doing better than others. As I have connections back in my second home who tell me as it is, it’s not just vaccines but the set up in each country doesn’t have a set up like our NHS, they don’t have surgeries in each village and it has been a new learning on how to administer the vaccines to rural areas where 40% of the population live.

Add to this a strong mistrust of the current government set up, misinformation about the vaccines on social media, its been a combination of lots of different obstacles which has to be overcome. But as time has rolled by the learning is now being implemented and the vaccine roll out is picking up, but it’s highlighted that there will be a few countries which after the Covid virus is under control will then be in transition with potential for protests and clashes resembling the late 80’s, certainly Poland & Czech Republic certainly have that danger! Unstable times ahead.

Indeed, in my opinion by not helping the Western governments have allowed China and Russia to become ‘ friendly again ‘ with nations of their choice. America in particular have sat back and allowed that to happen.

I hope I am wrong but after we are all vaccinated, the world could become a dangerous place.

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22 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Indeed, in my opinion by not helping the Western governments have allowed China and Russia to become ‘ friendly again ‘ with nations of their choice. America in particular have sat back and allowed that to happen.

I hope I am wrong but after we are all vaccinated, the world could become a dangerous place.

Could be, yet when you look back to march last year it was the time where we all started to work together, open up to each other, share info for the good of humanity.....now the true nature of humanity is showing its ugly head again.

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47 minutes ago, Indy said:

Could be, yet when you look back to march last year it was the time where we all started to work together, open up to each other, share info for the good of humanity.....now the true nature of humanity is showing its ugly head again.

Spot on, the difference being ‘ not knowing which vaccines will be available ‘ to ‘ knowing which vaccines will be available ‘. I remember our very own PM views when in a panic that China and or America would have the only vaccines and not share them.

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3800 cases...wow..and deaths very low to. From what i can see, even it being a weekend day, that is the lowest daily new infections total since mid September. Of course big test ahead when shops etc re open but so far its very encouraging in all areas, be it  cases, testings, vaccinations, hospital admissions..even more so when looking the state of things elsewhere in Europe.

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1 hour ago, Essjayess said:

3800 cases...wow..and deaths very low to. From what i can see, even it being a weekend day, that is the lowest daily new infections total since mid September. Of course big test ahead when shops etc re open but so far its very encouraging in all areas, be it  cases, testings, vaccinations, hospital admissions..even more so when looking the state of things elsewhere in Europe.

indeed, France are recoring around 40,000 cases a day atm, we need to be closely watching not just whats happening in the UK but with our near neighbours.

Edited by Van wink

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28 minutes ago, Van wink said:

indeed, France are recoring around 40,000 cases a day atm, we need to be closely watching not just whats happeneing in the UK but with our near neighbours.

The infection figures look awful but the death rate is still relatively low.  I know Mr moy's explanation but perhaps even at the relatively low rollout there is still a vaccine effect showing? Maybe it's just a  delay to the inevitable though.

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18 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The infection figures look awful but the death rate is still relatively low.  I know Mr moy's explanation but perhaps even at the relatively low rollout there is still a vaccine effect showing? Maybe it's just a  delay to the inevitable though.

Yeh about 200 deaths yesterday and 350 the day before, when we had the sort of infection rates seen in France atm our death rates were much higher. I suspect we are not seeing the mortality figures associated with the level of infection as yet, still early days but also there may be a positive vaccination benefit which must be encouraging. It seems to me that in the UK we get higher mortality figures than on the continent when the infection rates are similar. An indication of a more healthy population? A crude comparison but maybe raises a question. Hopefully as said above, vaccination of vunerable groups is showing benefits for them.

Edited by Van wink

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7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The infection figures look awful but the death rate is still relatively low.  I know Mr moy's explanation but perhaps even at the relatively low rollout there is still a vaccine effect showing? Maybe it's just a  delay to the inevitable though.

I'm assuming you mean the fact that France undercount due to them not using the 28 day rule.

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4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The infection figures look awful but the death rate is still relatively low.  I know Mr moy's explanation but perhaps even at the relatively low rollout there is still a vaccine effect showing? Maybe it's just a  delay to the inevitable though.

What inevitable? We’ve vaccinated 90% of the vulnerable groups, the rest are so resistant to Covid what is the inevitable? We move towards living with Covid, knowing that numbers hospitalised and death rates will be dramatically reduced even if we see a rise in infection numbers? I’m a little lost to why so many on here still appear to show concern over normality! 
The only thing we need to be concerned with any variants which are proved totally resistant to the vaccines, none are here yet! 

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

What inevitable? We’ve vaccinated 90% of the vulnerable groups, the rest are so resistant to Covid what is the inevitable? We move towards living with Covid, knowing that numbers hospitalised and death rates will be dramatically reduced even if we see a rise in infection numbers? I’m a little lost to why so many on here still appear to show concern over normality! 
The only thing we need to be concerned with any variants which are proved totally resistant to the vaccines, none are here yet! 

Not up to speed with vaccination rates in France Indy, if 90% of vunerable groups are now done thats bound to be having a significant effect and is excellent news.

Edited by Van wink

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Not up to speed with vaccination rates in France Indy, if 90% of vunerable groups are now done thats bound to be having a significant effect and is excellent news.

No indeed not in most countries in the EU, was talking about the UK! But it’s slowly accelerating in the EU and some countries are now moving forward quicker than others, credit to Serbia who invited their neighbours to take up vaccines which were available. That’s how we all need to be working to get to a place for all our benefits.

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2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Not up to speed with vaccination rates in France Indy, if 90% of vunerable groups are now done thats bound to be having a significant effect and is excellent news.

Yes, to be clear I was talking about France.  Agree that our figures are unsurprising given the vaccination campaign here.    Just hoped that we were seeing some sort of effect there, even at comparatively small rollout

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

No indeed not in most countries in the EU, was talking about the UK! But it’s slowly accelerating in the EU and some countries are now moving forward quicker than others, credit to Serbia who invited their neighbours to take up vaccines which were available. That’s how we all need to be working to get to a place for all our benefits.


We were talking about the 40k cases in France Indy and the mortality data there atm

 

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes, to be clear I was talking about France.  Agree that our figures are unsurprising given the vaccination campaign here.    Just hoped that we were seeing some sort of effect there, even at comparatively small rollout

Sorry BB I read that as we’re waiting for numbers to increase here as numbers go up in France! Agree though the quicker our EU friends get going full bore the better! 👍

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Just now, Van wink said:


We were talking about the 40k cases in France Indy and the mortality data there atm

 

Yes noted and apologies, as above. Having relatives in the Czech Rep I know the concerns to get the vaccines going. Unfortunately there it’s more a political & distribution  issue that a vaccine issue!

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Just now, Indy said:

Yes noted and apologies, as above. Having relatives in the Czech Rep I know the concerns to get the vaccines going. Unfortunately there it’s more a political & distribution  issue that a vaccine issue!

It does look that way, it seems that there is plenty of unused vaccine on the Continent, hopefully it will be in arms rather than fridges before too long.

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7 hours ago, Well b back said:

Indeed, in my opinion by not helping the Western governments have allowed China and Russia to become ‘ friendly again ‘ with nations of their choice. America in particular have sat back and allowed that to happen.

I hope I am wrong but after we are all vaccinated, the world could become a dangerous place.

Yes, I expected so much more from Biden...............seems almost like Trump with a diffent face 😞

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Not up to speed with vaccination rates in France Indy, if 90% of vunerable groups are now done thats bound to be having a significant effect and is excellent news.

That does not make sense as they have inoculated just over 11%.  So you are saying that vulnerable groups in France make up just over that percentage ? 

In the UK our vulnerable groups included everybody over 60 and then all people of any age with underlying health issues..... that must surely be at least 30% of the population as we have already inoculated 50% of adults.    

 

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2 hours ago, paul moy said:

That does not make sense as they have inoculated just over 11%.  So you are saying that vulnerable groups in France make up just over that percentage ? 

In the UK our vulnerable groups included everybody over 60 and then all people of any age with underlying health issues..... that must surely be at least 30% of the population as we have already inoculated 50% of adults.    

 

As clarified earlier we were discussing France but wires were crossed

Edited by Van wink

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

That does not make sense as they have inoculated just over 11%.  So you are saying that vulnerable groups in France make up just over that percentage ? 

In the UK our vulnerable groups included everybody over 60 and then all people of any age with underlying health issues..... that must surely be at least 30% of the population as we have already inoculated 50% of adults.    

 

Where’s my link ? 

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2 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Yes, I expected so much more from Biden...............seems almost like Trump with a diffent face 😞

In fairness The US and China stated in June there would be nothing leaving their shores, unless it was for their own gain, hence our PM’s panic in June when he stated it would be immoral for any country to do what we and many others are doing, when of course even he didn’t understand the Oxford monkey result so just assumed the vaccine could fail. I think you were on the COS thread and as you will be aware in September America began their attacks on AstraZeneca, although at the time we guessed it just seemed that way and wasn’t really the case.

Boris has done well ( if that’s what you call it ) to manage to shift the blame purely onto the EU. It is in America’s financial interest to get AZ out of the way, but I can’t understand Russia ( who describe it as the British Death Drug ) whom they have funded massive trials with Oxford. 
I suspect those 100 million AZ doses sitting in America’s fridges are the doses that AZ have the money in their back pocket for and assumed there would be no problem passing them to other countries as America could make millions more in the time it would even take to be approved ( if ever ) by the US. I would love to know where, if as the EU claim, the upfront money they paid is and if they were able to repay it if the EU cancel the contract.

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7 hours ago, Well b back said:

In fairness The US and China stated in June there would be nothing leaving their shores, unless it was for their own gain, hence our PM’s panic in June when he stated it would be immoral for any country to do what we and many others are doing, when of course even he didn’t understand the Oxford monkey result so just assumed the vaccine could fail. I think you were on the COS thread and as you will be aware in September America began their attacks on AstraZeneca, although at the time we guessed it just seemed that way and wasn’t really the case.

Boris has done well ( if that’s what you call it ) to manage to shift the blame purely onto the EU. It is in America’s financial interest to get AZ out of the way, but I can’t understand Russia ( who describe it as the British Death Drug ) whom they have funded massive trials with Oxford. 
I suspect those 100 million AZ doses sitting in America’s fridges are the doses that AZ have the money in their back pocket for and assumed there would be no problem passing them to other countries as America could make millions more in the time it would even take to be approved ( if ever ) by the US. I would love to know where, if as the EU claim, the upfront money they paid is and if they were able to repay it if the EU cancel the contract.

Yeh, it is all a bit of a mess isn't it Wbb. I just feel that if the US has the doses sitting there and not being used they may as well pass them on. I can (almost) see the point of not passing on vaccines that they are making and getting into their citizens as quickly as possible but hoarding vaccines that they are not using is really quite tragic.  

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3 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Yeh, it is all a bit of a mess isn't it Wbb. I just feel that if the US has the doses sitting there and not being used they may as well pass them on. I can (almost) see the point of not passing on vaccines that they are making and getting into their citizens as quickly as possible but hoarding vaccines that they are not using is really quite tragic.  

And also stopping Moderna and especially Pfizer being produced in India by not giving them a license because they can ‘ manufacture it 2/3rds cheaper ‘. We would have been so much further ahead in the world. 
Not sure if there will be another ‘ other country slow down ‘ as China now vaccinate their citizens. Quite a military operation, increasing from 2 - 300,000 at the end of last week up to 4,000,000 yesterday.

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@Van wink

Hi, what do you make of these figures, I think they show the fore’s and against Pfizer at 12 weeks. I am making an assumption ( I know it’s never good to assume ) that less people died after contracting it, supporting the 12 weeks, however at 4 weeks 62% effective, whereas the Israeli and now American figures show 95 - 99.96% effectiveness 1 week after dose 2 at 3 weeks.

Of course what it does not show is the effectiveness of 12 weeks after 2nd dose, we still await that.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56540729

Edited by Well b back

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56 minutes ago, Well b back said:

And also stopping Moderna and especially Pfizer being produced in India by not giving them a license because they can ‘ manufacture it 2/3rds cheaper ‘. We would have been so much further ahead in the world. 
Not sure if there will be another ‘ other country slow down ‘ as China now vaccinate their citizens. Quite a military operation, increasing from 2 - 300,000 at the end of last week up to 4,000,000 yesterday.

Ignoring all the details for the moment I think Macron summed it up rather well the other day.

The EU were a bit naïve in their vaccine purchase but won't be again - if I precis him correctly..

By this he was inferring to the defacto export ban on UK and USA produced vaccines (none exported - UK/USA first - some  now apparently to Mexico/Canada from USA) as opposed to the more commercially open, dare I say global approach of the EU. Odd they are being pilloried for this. Just imagine the mess the UK would be in now if Pfizer was only for EU (20M doses?). 

Hopefully the situation will quickly resolve itself but I doubt the UK has made any friends.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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52 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Ignoring all the details for the moment I think Macron summed it up rather well the other day.

The EU were a bit naïve in their vaccine purchase but won't be again - if I precis him correctly..

By this he was inferring to the defacto export ban on UK and USA produced vaccines (none exported - UK/UK first) as opposed to the more commercially open, dare I say global approach of the EU. Odd they are being pilloried for this. Just imagine the mess the UK would be in now if Pfizer was only for EU (20M doses?). 

Hopefully the situation will quickly resolve itself but I doubt the UK has made any friends.

If this were re run (hypothetically of course...)  the EU would likely have stronger contracts that demanded EU products for EU citizens first but Pfizer would probably react by opening plants elsewhere, just as AZ did when they split production. So it might not actually acheive anything- the EU would keep a greater proportion of a smaller pot.

The EU dropped the ball, picked it up and then dropped it again.  The rest is all smoke and mirrors.

Thankfully for EU citizens their next wave has started after the vaccination campaign got underway and as the warmer weather is coming so there will be some mitigation 

 

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3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Hopefully the situation will quickly resolve itself but I doubt the UK has made any friends.

Countries don't have friends, they have interests.

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4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Hopefully the situation will quickly resolve itself but I doubt the UK has made any friends.

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Countries don't have friends, they have interests.

Very true, but most countries have friends\allies\partners that they frequently or permananently collaborate with because they have some common interests, but the UK doesn't have any of those either - at least not outside the context of NATO and there doesn't seem to have been much collaborating amongst members there in recent years either!

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