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46 minutes ago, kick it off said:

This picture has appeared in various outlets of the Tory propaganda machine Sunday papers today.

Going to have to get into work super early tomorrow to install all these imaginary dividers, perspex screens and "knee-operated sinks" that are apparently all going to be delivered and installed by 8:25 tomorrow morning....

Presumably all of this will be funded by flogging our smartboards and replacing them with blackboards.

Good job my classes of 30/31/32 are apparently to be reduced to 9 who will all have laptops though.

This isn't an accident, this is actual Goebbels level, state sponsored propaganda. Do people really believe this ****? If you replaced the students with unicorns it would be VERY marginally less realistic.

Ev3Mt9SWYAM36Zb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Probably more like this. 
 

82534779-11F4-4E33-94A6-668FB6F74569.jpeg

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59 minutes ago, kick it off said:

This picture has appeared in various outlets of the Tory propaganda machine Sunday papers today.

Going to have to get into work super early tomorrow to install all these imaginary dividers, perspex screens and "knee-operated sinks" that are apparently all going to be delivered and installed by 8:25 tomorrow morning....

Presumably all of this will be funded by flogging our smartboards and replacing them with blackboards.

Good job my classes of 30/31/32 are apparently to be reduced to 9 who will all have laptops though.

This isn't an accident, this is actual Goebbels level, state sponsored propaganda. Do people really believe this ****? If you replaced the students with unicorns it would be VERY marginally less realistic.

Ev3Mt9SWYAM36Zb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Where’s the little girl using the sanitiser and the one washing their hands going to sit ?, and who donated the laptops or do you have to bring your own. 

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1 hour ago, kick it off said:

This picture has appeared in various outlets of the Tory propaganda machine Sunday papers today.

Going to have to get into work super early tomorrow to install all these imaginary dividers, perspex screens and "knee-operated sinks" that are apparently all going to be delivered and installed by 8:25 tomorrow morning....

Presumably all of this will be funded by flogging our smartboards and replacing them with blackboards.

Good job my classes of 30/31/32 are apparently to be reduced to 9 who will all have laptops though.

This isn't an accident, this is actual Goebbels level, state sponsored propaganda. Do people really believe this ****? If you replaced the students with unicorns it would be VERY marginally less realistic.

Ev3Mt9SWYAM36Zb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Go

To

Work

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19 hours ago, Van wink said:

Investment in local authority ( EHO’s ) and DPH at County level would have given a massive boost to T and T. 

We disagree on how much contact tracing can realistically contribute to suppression but we don't disagree on public health  ore generally.

We tend to think of 'health' as something you are recovered to by the NHS.   If though we really want to understand rising life expectancy over the last 200 years and prospects for the future then only maybe around 10% of our study should be focussed in what happens in hospitals.

Give everyone a decent house and easy access to green space and we might find our small mental health budget can cope. We could do the same exercise with many parts of the NHS (except perhaps geriatric medicine)

Edited by Barbe bleu
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13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Give everyone a decent house and easy access to green space and we might find our small mental health budget can cope. We could do the same exercise with many parts of the NHS (except perhaps geriatric medicine)

That is a good summary of Maslow's hierarchy isn't it? The physiological and safety needs planned for and resourced. Yet since 1980 we haven't invested very much in good public housing, though more homes have reached a decent home standard. Herman produced a very good summary of a progressive portfolio for a government on one of the other threads yesterday  (Positive Brexit) but I would add your points. There are solutions to a fairer and more equitable society but there are lots of signs that we are moving in a different direction.

Edited by sonyc

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12 minutes ago, sonyc said:

That is a good summary of Maslow's hierarchy isn't it? The physiological and safety needs planned for and resourced. Yet since 1980 we haven't invested very much in good public housing, though more homes have reached a decent home standard. Herman produced a very good summary of a progressive portfolio for a government on one of the other threads yesterday  (Positive Brexit) but I would add your points. There are solutions to a fairer and more equitable society but there are lots of signs that we are moving in a different direction.

Its probably some deep evolutionary thing.   Maybe we need to see trees to feel good as the primeval part of our brain is telling us they are what we climb when we see a sabre toothed tiger?

I wouldnt go as far as saying we need 'public' housing. We just need certain standards that need to be met regardless of the source and we need to be ensuring that these standards are met.

Now there might be very good arguments for mass council housing building but I suspect that if that debate is opened it'll entrench attitudes and prevent anything being done.

And since this is the virus thread....  enforced standards (pointless having  unenforced standards really) should include minimum spaces, ventilation, sunlight, access to parks etc . All the stuff we have talked about here.

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21 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Some very learned people are finding out whether mixing the two vaccines, Astra Zeneca followed by a Pfizer vaccination will actually/could possibly provide a much more all round protection. Anybody heard of such research and is a good suggestion?

 

Yes, I think there are some posts on the Sarah thread.    Absolutely a good thing to look into in my book. Even if there is no immunological benefit cost must be a consideration.

Not heard of any  study being published though.

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A twelve month trial of giving one shot of AZ vaccine and one shot of Pfizer vaccine started four - six weeks ago. I wouldn't expect any results for a while yet though in view of the length of the trial.

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50 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

We disagree on how much contact tracing can realistically contribute to suppression but we don't disagree on public health  ore generally.

We tend to think of 'health' as something you are recovered to by the NHS.   If though we really want to understand rising life expectancy over the last 200 years and prospects for the future then only maybe around 10% of our study should be focussed in what happens in hospitals.

Give everyone a decent house and easy access to green space and we might find our small mental health budget can cope. We could do the same exercise with many parts of the NHS (except perhaps geriatric medicine)

Indeed, the wider determinants of health,it’s what public health ( environmental health ) is all about

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1 hour ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Some very learned people are finding out whether mixing the two vaccines, Astra Zeneca followed by a Pfizer vaccination will actually/could possibly provide a much more all round protection. Anybody heard of such research and is a good suggestion?

 

Yes there is a trial doing this at the moment. There are other trials around the world, including our very own Oxford vaccine with Sputnik, which began in February.

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

National

 5177 - ?    not yet updated

Local

Fading fast in our area

image.png.527dcc5eecd61c200b1ac3bd7b6e615f.png

image.png.ac5e1a727339a54a91c4e79510dda46b.png

image.thumb.png.6a54da501f34c16e0ee1da5686e747e9.png

Nearly a million tests and under 6000 positives , brilliant 😁

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20 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

Just seen the vaccine is now available to people who are 56-59. Just gone online and booked mine for Friday 12th 😀👍.

And finally...i have got the call and a slot time for the 13th. for my 1st jab. Considering im in the over 65 age group i must have been right at the tail end of this group to get a slot. Patience has been rewarded at last.

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The world moves through another milestone with over 300 million vaccinated now. The pace is becoming rapid as supply moves to the next level. The US are going at some pace fast approaching 2.5 million a day. This week the rough daily total administered has gone up around 1.5 million. The US are also now using Johnson and Johnson that technically only requires one dose.

More than 304 million doses have been administered across 114 countries, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly 7.93 milliondoses a day.

 

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19 hours ago, Well b back said:

Yes there is a trial doing this at the moment. There are other trials around the world, including our very own Oxford vaccine with Sputnik, which began in February.

I hope they're not using rabbits in these trials, they've suffered in the past from mixingthedoses. 😀

 

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28 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I hope they're not using rabbits in these trials, they've suffered in the past from mixingthedoses. 😀

 

That’s brilliant! Made me laugh thanks!

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23 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes, I think there are some posts on the Sarah thread.    Absolutely a good thing to look into in my book. Even if there is no immunological benefit cost must be a consideration.

Not heard of any  study being published though.

One wonders, given the creeping privatization of our GP surgeries by Centene, the largest US provider of primary health care, whether it would be opportune to ask any GP whether one can obtain a Pfizer jab after the first Atra Zeneca vaccination, for a better allround protection.

This is the low down on Centene which operates as Operose Health care here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centene_Corporation

And here is a petition to stop their progression, should you feel inclined.

https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/stop-sell-49-gp-practices?fbclid=IwAR0H-4Nwaf6osImHxDTS1lW77oLytpsECttGyFwS8YoLftExkHvQmiUdeOs

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Surely its now irrefutable that lockdown works

So why have the numbers not fallen in Europe.

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8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

So why have the numbers not fallen in Europe.

I don't know is the honest answer. But it works for us. And has for others.

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Quick update - Despite the "guidance" kids aren't wearing masks in class in my school. Head has said he can't make them, and we're not allowed to challenge any who don't, the message was sent out that it's "voluntary". Maybe 40% chose to today in the 4 hours (2 x 2 hour double lessons) that I was stuck in a small room with 25 kids.

Other schools seem to have taken a harder line on this without much pushback. Maybe if the DfE guidance wasn't so ****ing **** and vague then it might be consistent in my school too.

So essentially there's no more protection at all, except the £100 HEPA filtration that I paid for out my own pocket, the school have refused to reimburse and have actually told me I'm not allowed to use. I'm using it anyway though. I don't see any basis for refusing something that helps make my classroom safer for me and the students so I will persist and see if they want to take me on with this one.

Wave 3 and Lockdown 4 incoming at a rapid pace I would imagine.

Ideal in my situation obviously.

Livid.

Edited by kick it off

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Surely its now irrefutable that lockdown works

Depends what you mean by works. I don’t think anyone has argued against the idea that if you ban (and fully enforce) people from ever seeing other people they won’t catch things off other people.

It works in terms of stopping transmission but we’ve seen multiple times that it comes back as soon as you unlock. Lockdowns work to try and avoid disaster, they don’t solve the problem. If we didn’t have vaccines you’d be looking at the same thing happening again this year and probably forever until people got fed up of being locked in doors and started rioting.

 

Edited by Aggy
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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

So why have the numbers not fallen in Europe.

Clearly not a proper lockdown coupled with open borders issue. 

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37 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Depends what you mean by works. I don’t think anyone has argued against the idea that if you ban (and fully enforce) people from ever seeing other people they won’t catch things off other people.

It works in terms of stopping transmission but we’ve seen multiple times that it comes back as soon as you unlock. Lockdowns work to try and avoid disaster, they don’t solve the problem. If we didn’t have vaccines you’d be looking at the same thing happening again this year and probably forever until people got fed up of being locked in doors and started rioting.

 

I think there has been much questioning of lockdowns since they were instituted. And the fact is that the numbers dropped. And I also argue thst it has been politicians and academics that have been the most sceptical.

Fact is we haven't vaccinated everyone yet and still don't know if we will need boosters.

As uncomfortable and distressing as lockdowns are, the bluntest tool is sometimes whst is needed to do the job.

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Clearly not a proper lockdown coupled with open borders issue. 

Hang on what was it you said when they shut their borders ? You make more U turns than Johnson.

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think there has been much questioning of lockdowns since they were instituted. And the fact is that the numbers dropped. And I also argue thst it has been politicians and academics that have been the most sceptical.

Fact is we haven't vaccinated everyone yet and still don't know if we will need boosters.

As uncomfortable and distressing as lockdowns are, the bluntest tool is sometimes whst is needed to do the job.

Well each to their own, but I really don’t think there has. 

Questions about whether the lockdown is the right thing taking wider considerations into account, yes. Questions about timing of lockdowns, yes. Questions about whether the nhs was actually ever about to be overwhelmed, yes. Questions about whether ethically we should lockdown, yes. Questions about whether there’s much point if it will just come back again when you stop lockdown, yes.

But I don’t think I’ve seen much at all (if any) questioning that stopping people seeing each other would reduce transmission. As I said above, it depends what you mean by “works”. 

Edited by Aggy

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Sinovac is very similar to the Oxford vaccine ( as are others both in China and Russia ) and have Lancet papers, showing their safety and efficacy.

The Jenner Group knew there would be another Coronavirus 4 years before the outbreak, hence they developed a vaccine in preparation. The actual vaccine itself used was modified over a weekend once they knew the make up of the new virus. Governments around the world had previously refused to fund the initial vaccine as they did not consider these viruses a threat, yet your video says it would not be possible to vaccinate against a Coronavirus. Luckily the scientists followed their own advise rather than you tube. This was all established on COS thread months ago.

Most Coronavirus vaccines are being tested on children, usually down to 6 years old.

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