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Wouldn't it just, if China can eliminate poverty at a stroke then I guess anything is possible😀😉

Edited by Van wink

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Misinformation about the Oxford vaccine from Macron and  Merkel has cost the EU a lot of lives, now they both are saying it's as good  as any other, whilst loads have been wasted 

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What a shocking situation!!

"Europe’s AstraZeneca stockpile mounts as citizens snub jab ....Emmanuel Macron forced to extol its virtues after efficacy doubts and adverse publicity damped trust

After battling with AstraZeneca over shipment delays, and even casting doubt over its Covid-19 jab’s efficacy, EU countries are seeing stocks of the company’s shots pile in — unused. As of Friday, France had administered 7 per cent of the 2.5m doses of the two-injection vaccine it received since the first delivery in early February, according to health ministry data. As of Thursday, Germany had given a little over one-fifth of the 1.45 million doses, about the same proportion as Italy, which has received over 1m doses. Spain has used just under a third of a total of 808,000 doses as of Friday. The situation has prompted several European leaders to talk up the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine in recent days, with one French health ministry official even calling for a “collective rehabilitation campaign” to improve its reputation. German chancellor Angela Merkel acknowledged that there was “an acceptance problem with the AstraZeneca vaccine at the moment” that was slowing the jab’s rollout. In an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper on Thursday, she urged people to keep an open mind to it: “All the authorities tell us that we can trust this vaccine.” The tone is a change from only weeks ago when European politicians were engaged in an acrimonious battle with AstraZeneca over its deliveries and when French president Emmanuel Macron suggested the vaccine was “quasi-ineffective” on older individuals. Now that they have doses however, EU governments face a sceptical public, in addition to logistical challenges and restrictions of their own devising. Health experts have warned that the continent’s already sluggish rollout could be further hampered if uptake of the Anglo-Swedish company’s vaccine is not improved. The EU had inoculated only 6.82 per 100 people by Friday, compared to 28.6 in the UK, 20.4 in the United States, and 91 in Israel, according to Our World in Data. France has used little of its Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine supply. "

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"One dose of the Pfizer vaccine could be enough to protect millions of people who have already had Covid, research by Public Health England suggests.

Scientists said the findings could "potentially accelerate vaccine rollout" if those going for jabs were offered tests to see whether they had antibodies first.

One of the studies, led by researchers at University College London and Public Health England (PHE), tracked 51 health workers in London who had undergone regular tests for antibodies and infection since March.

Roughly half had been infected, and a single dose of the Pfizer vaccine increased their antibody levels more than 140-fold from their peak levels before being inoculated, the study said. This appeared to give them more robust protection than two doses of the vaccine did in people who had never been infected.

"This could potentially accelerate vaccine rollout," the scientists wrote, suggesting that speeding up the programme could also slow the spread of new virus variants. The paper said "wider coverage without compromising vaccine-induced immunity could help reduce variant emergence".

There have been more than four million confirmed cases of Covid in the UK, though this is likely to far underestimate the number of people who have been infected. 

The second study, led by scientists at Imperial College London, measured the immune responses of 72 health workers who were vaccinated in late December. 

One third showed signs of having previously been infected. For them, one dose of the Pfizer vaccine stimulated "very strong" antibody responses, the study said, as well as "very strong T-cell responses", referring to another arm of the immune system."

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11 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Intersting thing from this feed is he also produces similar charts for the rate of decline in May, and its reversed in that the the over 85 group were the slowest to decline, really showing the benefit of vaccinating the elderly.

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16 hours ago, Van wink said:

Wouldn't it just, if China can eliminate poverty at a stroke then I guess anything is possible😀😉

Also, around 150,000 over 80s no longer claim benefits in China since last year according to reports, even though they only had 3,000 deaths due to covid.   Strange indeed......

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16 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Also, around 150,000 over 80s no longer claim benefits in China since last year according to reports, even though they only had 3,000 deaths due to covid.   Strange indeed......

Mass graves in the desert I reckon. 

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Also, around 150,000 over 80s no longer claim benefits in China since last year according to reports, even though they only had 3,000 deaths due to covid.   Strange indeed......

 

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Mass graves in the desert I reckon. 

Currently I think the official Chinese CV-19 death toll is about 4,500. Even if we assume as many do it could be 10 times larger that's still only 45,000 in country with an official population of c. 1.4Bn. We should note that the Chinese very much limited the outbreak to Wuhan and the local Hubei province.

However, let's take your extremely dubious and dodgy 150,000 deaths at face value (and your implication that they are all due to Covid - which is obviously untrue). So to make the numbers easy that's 150,000 in country with a population of 1,500,000,000 or about 1 in 10,000. Applying the same logic to the UK that would be about 6,000 deaths max if we were 'as good' as the Chinese at covid-19 suppression.

Hmm. 

We aren't doing very well then are we? We have c. 120,000 deaths so far. Bottom of the class. Need to try harder.

I really don't know what point some people are trying to make apart from being disingenuous with facts or incredibly simple and gullible.

 

Edited by Yellow Fever
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2 hours ago, Van wink said:

What a shocking situation!!

"Europe’s AstraZeneca stockpile mounts as citizens snub jab ....Emmanuel Macron forced to extol its virtues after efficacy doubts and adverse publicity damped trust

After battling with AstraZeneca over shipment delays, and even casting doubt over its Covid-19 jab’s efficacy, EU countries are seeing stocks of the company’s shots pile in — unused. As of Friday, France had administered 7 per cent of the 2.5m doses of the two-injection vaccine it received since the first delivery in early February, according to health ministry data. As of Thursday, Germany had given a little over one-fifth of the 1.45 million doses, about the same proportion as Italy, which has received over 1m doses. Spain has used just under a third of a total of 808,000 doses as of Friday. The situation has prompted several European leaders to talk up the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine in recent days, with one French health ministry official even calling for a “collective rehabilitation campaign” to improve its reputation. German chancellor Angela Merkel acknowledged that there was “an acceptance problem with the AstraZeneca vaccine at the moment” that was slowing the jab’s rollout. In an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine newspaper on Thursday, she urged people to keep an open mind to it: “All the authorities tell us that we can trust this vaccine.” The tone is a change from only weeks ago when European politicians were engaged in an acrimonious battle with AstraZeneca over its deliveries and when French president Emmanuel Macron suggested the vaccine was “quasi-ineffective” on older individuals. Now that they have doses however, EU governments face a sceptical public, in addition to logistical challenges and restrictions of their own devising. Health experts have warned that the continent’s already sluggish rollout could be further hampered if uptake of the Anglo-Swedish company’s vaccine is not improved. The EU had inoculated only 6.82 per 100 people by Friday, compared to 28.6 in the UK, 20.4 in the United States, and 91 in Israel, according to Our World in Data. France has used little of its Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine supply. "

Shocking in terms of disappointing and sad it’s got to that point, yes. Can’t say I’m shocked though that the populace is slow to accept it/sceptical given how the politicians have handled things in the past few weeks and months. 

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31 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Currently I think the official Chinese CV-19 death toll is about 4,500. Even if we assume as many do it could be 10 times larger that's still only 45,000 in country with an official population of c. 1.4Bn. We should note that the Chinese very much limited the outbreak to Wuhan and the local Hubei province.

However, let's take your extremely dubious and dodgy 150,000 deaths at face value (and your implication that they are all due to Covid - which is obviously untrue). So to make the numbers easy that's 150,000 in country with a population of 1,500,000,000 or about 1 in 10,000. Applying the same logic to the UK that would be about 6,000 deaths max if we were 'as good' as the Chinese at covid-19 suppression.

Hmm. 

We aren't doing very well then are we? We have c. 120,000 deaths so far. Bottom of the class. Need to try harder.

I really don't know what point some people are trying to make apart from being disingenuous with facts or incredibly simple and gullible.

 

So it’s just ok for China to blatantly lie yeah?

100 yen has been deposited in your account comrade

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16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

So it’s just ok for China to blatantly lie yeah?

100 yen has been deposited in your account comrade

Well, he believes all that comes out of the EU, so Quelle Surprise !!!   

Now what did they say about the AstraZeneca jab ?   😂

Edited by paul moy

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47 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Currently I think the official Chinese CV-19 death toll is about 4,500. Even if we assume as many do it could be 10 times larger that's still only 45,000 in country with an official population of c. 1.4Bn. We should note that the Chinese very much limited the outbreak to Wuhan and the local Hubei province.

However, let's take your extremely dubious and dodgy 150,000 deaths at face value (and your implication that they are all due to Covid - which is obviously untrue). So to make the numbers easy that's 150,000 in country with a population of 1,500,000,000 or about 1 in 10,000. Applying the same logic to the UK that would be about 6,000 deaths max if we were 'as good' as the Chinese at covid-19 suppression.

Hmm. 

We aren't doing very well then are we? We have c. 120,000 deaths so far. Bottom of the class. Need to try harder.

I really don't know what point some people are trying to make apart from being disingenuous with facts or incredibly simple and gullible.

 

It does seem strange that some are far more concerned with what is going on hundreds or thousands of miles away but are completely oblivious to what has gone on on their own doorstep.I'm not sure why.😉

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Whilst the vaccine roll-out has actually been relatively effective, don't forget how much of a dithering idiot BJ and his cronies have been before now.

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2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

So it’s just ok for China to blatantly lie yeah?

100 yen has been deposited in your account comrade

Can't even get the currency right.

Renminbi (RMB)  or Yuan (CNY). Yen would be Japanese ?

Vacant is as vacant does ?

100 RMB I always think of as £10 notes.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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2 hours ago, Aggy said:

Shocking in terms of disappointing and sad it’s got to that point, yes. Can’t say I’m shocked though that the populace is slow to accept it/sceptical given how the politicians have handled things in the past few weeks and months. 

Indeed, hugely disappointing with implications for us all on both sides of the Channel, shocking in the way Leaders have conducted themselves. 👍

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

It does seem strange that some are far more concerned with what is going on hundreds or thousands of miles away but are completely oblivious to what has gone on on their own doorstep.I'm not sure why.😉

100 yen has been deposited in your account

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29 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Can't even get the currency right.

Renminbi (RMB)  or Yuan (CNY). Yen would be Japanese ?

Vacant is as vacant does ?

100 RMB I always think of as £10 notes.

You seem very knowledgeable in all this. I wonder why?

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

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2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

You seem very knowledgeable in all this. I wonder why?

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Perhaps I run one of EXPORTING businesses that sells thing to China and the rest of the world and have much first hand (non-tourist) experience of such places including Wuhan good and bad - to earn foreign currency so you can buy mobile phones, computers and fridges with or do you just wish as country to keep borrowing and run up debts?

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3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Perhaps I run one of EXPORTING businesses that sells thing to China and the rest of the world and have much first hand (non-tourist) experience of such places including Wuhan good and bad - to earn foreign currency so you can buy mobile phones, computers and fridges with or do you just wish as country to keep borrowing and run up debts?

Ah so you are willing to look the other way because of cash that’s cool I understand now mate no worries shame they are hacking the NHS as we speak but hey ho that’s the price you pay guess we’d better just keep quiet. Nice ethics bro 😎 

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So I'm guessing this number has been published by the Chinese authorities without anyone stopping to think about the possible implications of a 150,000 reduction in people age 80+ claiming this benefit.  Unless there is some other plausible reason for such a dramatic change, the reduction would seem to be a rough proxy for excess deaths among that part of the population.  One could project that number across the wider population using the relative proportions for the number of Covid deaths in different age groups etc (from countries with more reliable statistics) to get a number that is certainly not accurate, but would give a very rough idea, and with a huge margin for error, for the actual number of Covid deaths suffered by China.  I think that would be a lot more realistic than the official deaths number which is about as reliable as a totalitarian regime getting a 99.9% majority in a referendum. 

 

So what can we conclude from this ?  Firstly any comparisons between how well China has done in dealing with Covid and any other country are literally meaningless; and any numbers specifically about Covid published by the Chinese authorities tell us what they would like people to think those numbers are, no more and no less.

 

As with the famines created by the "Great Leap Forward" we will never have a really accurate answer, but it will take many years before people can even produce realistic estimates.

 

Also, we can be sure the real number is bad enough that the Chinese authorities very much do not want people to have any idea at all of what it is.

 

Does this matter ?  I think it does, not just because deception on a grand scale is a bad thing, but also because China has been touting its authoritarian approach to dealing with Covid as more successful than the approach used by the West, for example.  We can now say we should not accept the numbers on which those claims are made as being reliable.

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Our death toll is a disgrace. There is no other way to say it.

But some would ignore that as China is lying.

Yes, they probably are.  But does that excuse us?

People have to get used to Chinese foreign policy over US from now on. The BBC Trump documentaries illustrated their "we want to be number one in the world" and they are terrified they are close to losing topspot.

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Just seen this article in Financial Times about the incoming mental health crisis after all this. Very concerning when suicide is already the biggest killer of men under the age of 40

 

Edited by JF
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5 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Whilst the vaccine roll-out has actually been relatively effective, don't forget how much of a dithering idiot BJ and his cronies have been before now.

Agree with that comment but come on, to describe our vaccine roll-out as 'relatively effective' is a tad grudging don't you think? Have to give credit where it's due and with the vaccine roll-out it is due and big time! 

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4 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Ah so you are willing to look the other way because of cash that’s cool I understand now mate no worries shame they are hacking the NHS as we speak but hey ho that’s the price you pay guess we’d better just keep quiet. Nice ethics bro 😎 

And who’s not hacking who....to think it’s just the Chinese is as British as you can get!

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4 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Ah so you are willing to look the other way because of cash that’s cool I understand now mate no worries shame they are hacking the NHS as we speak but hey ho that’s the price you pay guess we’d better just keep quiet. Nice ethics bro 😎 

I didn't realize I was talking to a child.

However, please provide a link to your 'official' figures - I can't find one but I do recall spurious chat last Spring about Wuhan in  the usual less than fully honest places.

However - this may help inform you. University of Oxford.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-24-overall-deaths-did-not-increase-most-chinese-regions-during-initial-covid-19 

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2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I didn't realize I was talking to a child.

However, please provide a link to your 'official' figures - I can't find one but I do recall spurious chat last Spring about Wuhan in  the usual less than fully honest places.

However - this may help inform you. University of Oxford.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-24-overall-deaths-did-not-increase-most-chinese-regions-during-initial-covid-19 

>believing China about anything

>believing universities aren’t being influenced heavily by china

Absolute cringe detected

666C7E2B-290F-4A6B-8E50-8ECC117B8C8F.jpeg

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