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I’m afraid Macrons words to an already vaccine sceptic population were not helpful. Hopefully common sense will eventually prevail.

Edited by Van wink
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11 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

they'll soon realise their mistakes. I honestly think we are on the verge of witnessing the greatest medical miracle of all time unfolding this year with these vaccines.

I think this just shows the power of an irrational zeitgeist (seem an apt term for Germany) at odds with the actual facts.

Reminds me of something similar we had here.....

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1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think this just shows the power of an irrational zeitgeist (seem an apt term for Germany) at odds with the actual facts.

Reminds me of something similar we had here.....

yup, the truth always comes out in the wash...

Let's just see where we are in a couple of months, I've not been more confident about getting out of this mess than I am now though.

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4 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

yup, the truth always comes out in the wash...

Let's just see where we are in a couple of months, I've not been more confident about getting out of this mess than I am now though.

Agreed - I'm pretty sure Johnson this time will be very cautious an hence we will have better days in the summer.  

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3 hours ago, Van wink said:

I’m afraid Macrons words to an already vaccine sceptic population were not helpful. Hopefully common sense will eventually prevail.

I have been keeping an eye on France, both literally with my telescope and also by reading their newspapers (Google translate)

It is immensely worrying for whilst they vaccinate slowly their rate of infections rises with more speed. Particularly with incidences of the so-called English variant, which is  becoming more dominant.

The Telegraph article has picked up on a trend of the last two weeks. France currently has 20, 000 plus infections a day and it is rising. We have to hope that the somewhat anticipated explosion will not happen, but if it does, a newer more dangerous variant will not evolve.

I believe that the suspension of compulsory tests for lorry drivers to be a mistake and that other measures might well be needed in order not to threaten the progress made in the UK.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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14 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

 

I believe that the suspension of compulsory tests for lorry drivers to be a mistake and that other measures might well be needed in order not to threaten the progress made in the UK.

I had missed that the rules had changed, it apperas that drivers can return to France without the need for a test if they have been in UK for less than 48 hrs, from what you are saying they dont need a test before coming into UK either?

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I have to be honest the idea of vaccine doses sitting unused just makes my blood boil.

 

There have been plenty of ways you can criticise our government over its handling of the pandemic, such as opening too much too soon last summer, not going with the advice for a circuit breaker lockdown when cases started to rise and so on.  But at least you can understand the government had reasons for what it did, and was trying to do the best for the country.

 

Whereas this is just appalling - to be sending out negative information about the vaccine and not using the doses they've received, it just makes me furious.  The only thing which I think is as bad during the pandemic is China trying to hush up the outbreak back at the start and prosecuting that doctor who was trying to let people know about the problem.

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9 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I had missed that the rules had changed, it apperas that drivers can return to France without the need for a test if they have been in UK for less than 48 hrs, from what you are saying they dont need a test before coming into UK either?

I had thought it reciprocal. Perhaps it was just for those from the UK. 

Of course, the rumours around this area are that the variant was brought into Kent by lorry drivers, and the like, coming from Europe. The fact that they cite it is because Kent is the nearest to France and it is therefore no co-incidence makes it a compelling argument.

The fact that it has not yet taken a dominant hold anywhere in Europe makes it less so.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Agreed - I'm pretty sure Johnson this time will be very cautious an hence we will have better days in the summer.  

I hope you’re right. I very much hope there will be sufficient time taken for proper evaluation of each stage of release rather than the bull in the China Shop  approach.
Another uptick in the Zoe data, back up to over 14000, something very odd going on.

Edited by Van wink
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7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I hope you’re right.

I have my doubts - too many nutters to the right of him. The post covid19 diabetes figures should have all the red lights flashing!

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1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

I have my doubts - too many nutters to the right of him. The post covid19 diabetes figures should have all the red lights flashing!

As I added above, we need proper evaluation of impact at each stage, I hope he is strong enough to do it or we will all suffer.

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

As I added above, we need proper evaluation of impact at each stage, I hope he is strong enough to do it or we will all suffer.

Both agree -  much as i said a week or more ago. We must keep the numbers going down, even when we open schools likely a little more slowly.  If it starts to go up (with the noise removed) i.e loosing control then we need to rethink our approach / vaccination strategy.

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10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

As I added above, we need proper evaluation of impact at each stage, I hope he is strong enough to do it or we will all suffer.

Bbc suggesting four conditions to be met at each stage of coming out:

 

“The four conditions that must be met at each phase of lockdown easing are:

  1. The coronavirus vaccine programme continues to go to plan
  2. Evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently reducing the number of people dying with the virus or needing hospital treatment
  3. Infection rates do not risk a surge in hospital admissions
  4. New variants of the virus do not fundamentally change the risk of lifting restrictions

Downing Street said the four tests are currently being met so the first step of lockdown easing in England will proceed as planned on 8 March.

The first stage of easing restrictions will be across the whole of England, Downing Street added, due to the current uniform spread of the virus.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56148160

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I remain sceptical about rates coming down to match the media's complete obsession with lockdown ending (virtually every media outlet). All I read is when lockdown ends and what people can do. It is building to a frenzy and feels so much at odds with how dangerous the moment feels (looking at the data locally certainly). See table. I realise my district has topped the table for mobility (car journeys) in most national studies. Further, I still see people breaking the 'rules' every single day (not a majority I will add). It just shows how strong the messaging has to be. 

Edit. I guess the most important data will be hospitalisation figures not just the number of new infections.

 

IMG_20210222_124425.jpg

Edited by sonyc

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I remain sceptical about rates coming down to match the media's complete obsession with lockdown ending (virtually every media outlet). All I read is when lockdown ends and what people can do. It is building to a frenzy and feels so much at odds with how dangerous the moment feels (looking at the data locally certainly). See table. I realise my district has topped the table for mobility (car journeys) in most national studies. Further, I still see people breaking the 'rules' every single day (not a majority I will add). It just shows how strong the messaging has to be. 

 

IMG_20210222_124425.jpg

It’s very much the same here in Broadland, figures shooting up.

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22 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s very much the same here in Broadland, figures shooting up.

It appears listening to the lunchtime news that caution will indeed be the watchword. Good news and at least it shows learning (and listening to scientists). If these encouraging vaccination rates continue with such excellent efficacy (prevention of serious illness) then they can afford to relax as and when figures allow. That's a far better and more reassuring way to come out of this. I'm more hopeful than ever.

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

It appears listening to the lunchtime news that caution will indeed be the watchword. Good news and at least it shows learning (and listening to scientists). If these encouraging vaccination rates continue with such excellent efficacy (prevention of serious illness) then they can afford to relax as and when figures allow. That's a far better and more reassuring way to come out of this. I'm more hopeful than ever.

Yes - that's all I ask - caution, keep control, relax, evaluate, repeat. I'm pleased there will be 5 weeks between any incremental steps - the big one and riskiest being all the schools back March 8th.

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

It appears listening to the lunchtime news that caution will indeed be the watchword. Good news and at least it shows learning (and listening to scientists). If these encouraging vaccination rates continue with such excellent efficacy (prevention of serious illness) then they can afford to relax as and when figures allow. That's a far better and more reassuring way to come out of this. I'm more hopeful than ever.

Yeh good cause for us all to feel optimistic 👍

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Yeh good cause for us all to feel optimistic 👍

Yes indeed VW, especially the vaccine effectiveness on reducing hospitalisation......the key to long term normality.

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Long term normality? please do explain what this would mean to our lifes, Indy, what normality depending on actions we have to take to mitigate the climate crisis we are in will mean for us.

As for this talk of never having another lock down, is that not a bit superficial nonsense? dangerous and vacuous talk by some desperate politicians who now want to chop down the money tree and put it through a blender to get some more QE out of it.

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2 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Long term normality? please do explain what this would mean to our lifes, Indy, what normality depending on actions we have to take to mitigate the climate crisis we are in will mean for us.

As for this talk of never having another lock down, is that not a bit superficial nonsense? dangerous and vacuous talk by some desperate politicians who now want to chop down the money tree and put it through a blender to get some more QE out of it.

Normality is where we were 12 months ago! What climate issues have on the virus is a different debate entirely!

Something unless you can get the virus that is Humans under control will just end up killing this planet! 

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well Indy, the more destructive we get, d3molishing the habitats of animals and or making them live in unormal coditions, the more we will come in contact with viruses, Time to change tack drastically.

This virus is not defeated by a long shot, as much as people hope for it, and there are new and equally dangerous viruses jumping species barriers.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/poultry/russia-confirms-first-case-of-h5n8-avian-flu-in-humans

 

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18 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

well Indy, the more destructive we get, d3molishing the habitats of animals and or making them live in unormal coditions, the more we will come in contact with viruses, Time to change tack drastically.

This virus is not defeated by a long shot, as much as people hope for it, and there are new and equally dangerous viruses jumping species barriers.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/poultry/russia-confirms-first-case-of-h5n8-avian-flu-in-humans

 

Surely then we should just let the virus run its course and allow it to kill off a few billion people? Until people take responsibility and reduce the population we’re all doomed so one way or another there will be a monumental catastrophe which will wipe out a few billion people, my money still on an ice age once the Gulf Stream collapses and shifts southwards, most of the norther hemisphere will be under ice very quickly! Or possibly the super volcano under Yellowstone going bang! 👍😉

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Surely then we should just let the virus run its course and allow it to kill off a few billion people? Until people take responsibility and reduce the population we’re all doomed so one way or another there will be a monumental catastrophe which will wipe out a few billion people, my money still on an ice age once the Gulf Stream collapses and shifts southwards, most of the norther hemisphere will be under ice very quickly! Or possibly the super volcano under Yellowstone going bang! 👍😉

Thanks for that optimistic message 😁

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4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

I have been keeping an eye on France, both literally with my telescope and also by reading their newspapers (Google translate)

It is immensely worrying for whilst they vaccinate slowly their rate of infections rises with more speed. Particularly with incidences of the so-called English variant, which is  becoming more dominant.

The Telegraph article has picked up on a trend of the last two weeks. France currently has 20, 000 plus infections a day and it is rising. We have to hope that the somewhat anticipated explosion will not happen, but if it does, a newer more dangerous variant will not evolve.

I believe that the suspension of compulsory tests for lorry drivers to be a mistake and that other measures might well be needed in order not to threaten the progress made in the UK.

10 players from the French rugby squad have now tested positive

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4 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Thanks for that optimistic message 😁

Don't worry, it probably won't happen before we are promoted so at least one more open top bus ride.😉

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6 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Thanks for that optimistic message 😁

Well to be lectured about the inevitable is daft! The reality is that lithium mining is causing more massive issues to the carbon footprint and directly to the environment than the good of using electric cars, then to power the cars we need to up our power output by four times to meet demand which means nuclear power with will require massive building programs which will in turn require massive carbon emissions!

To meet the requirements and reverse the effects we need to act so drastically that we would all need to be like the Good Life!

Edited by Indy
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