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1 minute ago, Barry Brockes said:

I had my vax yesterday morning and have had no side effects at all. My very fit 39 year-old son was offered a left-over vax on Saturday at the end of his shift as a volunteer and is just getting out of bed for the first time in 36 hours having suffered awful side effects.

One of the nurses told me yesterday that the better your immune system, which tends to be younger people generally speaking, the more likely you are to suffer side effects.

My mother lives in a care home. Most of the staff and residents were vaccinated on the same day. Not one of the residents suffered any side effects but a few of the younger carers were off work for a couple of days afterwards mostly with muscular aches and pains and blinding headaches.

I'm no scientist but there might be something in it.

 

 

With the Pfizer jab it is often a really sore arm for a couple of days.

If you go onto the NHS website you can note your side effects for future reference.
Don’t forget as well for some people there is the possibility that you got COVID just before or just after your jab and the side effects are actually COVID itself.

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9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Don’t forget as well for some people there is the possibility that you got COVID just before or just after your jab and the side effects are actually COVID itself.

Like that one WBB .

I'm not sure one should read too much into the side effects of a vaccine vs immunity. I think if I caught Covid I'd rather be asymptomatic than not and possibly I'd be asymptomatic to the jab as well in that case. However everyone is different and a reaction does prove the immune system triggers.

I was going to add in Paul's case he's probably got a strong allergic reaction to foreign made needle and syringe.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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35 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

I was going to add in Paul's case he's probably got a strong allergic reaction to foreign made needle and syringe.

Singing a couple of verses of 'Rule Britannia' will soon put him right.🇬🇧😁

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36 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I was going to add in Paul's case he's probably got a strong allergic reaction to foreign made needle and syringe.

Probably a batch manufactured in Belgium which has been modified to make brexiteers suffer....those damn EU countries, can’t be trusted! 😂👍

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5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Singing a couple of verses of 'Rule Britannia' will soon put him right.🇬🇧😁

I thougt it was surely the CE mark that did it.

And as I recall you had to sing Ode to Joy with a reprise now due in April 😂

Edited by Yellow Fever
Gentle fun

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The 63 Anti Lockdown Tories.

Since we're in a frivolous mood tonight I have a proposal for them.

We take them all, spray them with a random cocktail of all the various UK variants of Covid and then quarantine them for weeks without pay.

Some may be vaccinated, some not, some will be ill, some not. Then after a few weeks, those that have recovered we will ask about their views on letting Covid run wild. Toughen them up a bit. We may even lose a few.

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2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The 63 Anti Lockdown Tories.

Since we're in a frivolous mood tonight I have a proposal for them.

We take them all, spray them with a random cocktail of all the various UK variants of Covid and then quarantine them for weeks without pay.

Some may be vaccinated, some not, some will be ill, some not. Then after a few weeks, those that have recovered we will ask about their views on letting Covid run wild. Toughen them up a bit. We may even lose a few.

 Nice idea, I’d be happy to see it!

The issue comes as this gets air time some stupid gullible people will start to follow their views and break rules! 

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2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

You randonly stumbled on this article did you? Are you sure you did not search for vaccination mistake stories?

Actually I was listening to a vlog by Reekay today and he brought it up..... pure coincidence. 

He mentions it at 56.45......

 

 

 

Edited by paul moy

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16 minutes ago, Indy said:

 Nice idea, I’d be happy to see it!

The issue comes as this gets air time some stupid gullible people will start to follow their views and break rules! 

I think they should be first to try out what they propose for everybody else.

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21 minutes ago, Indy said:

 Nice idea, I’d be happy to see it!

The issue comes as this gets air time some stupid gullible people will start to follow their views and break rules! 

I don't think that Uni students were following them or various demonstrators such as BLM  ....... I hope that re-opening Unis is one of the last things on the agenda because for sure they will continue to break the rules and be spreaders. 

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I’ll put your post on the volunteers message board for you, I am sure all the students delivering food and medicines, the student nurses working the ICU wards, the thousands of students volunteering on the vaccination and test sites and delivering test kits door to door to name but a few of the things they are doing will be well happy to know it’s all their fault.

 

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

The 63 Anti Lockdown Tories.

Since we're in a frivolous mood tonight I have a proposal for them.

We take them all, spray them with a random cocktail of all the various UK variants of Covid and then quarantine them for weeks without pay.

Some may be vaccinated, some not, some will be ill, some not. Then after a few weeks, those that have recovered we will ask about their views on letting Covid run wild. Toughen them up a bit. We may even lose a few.

I have a suspicion that they don't have to worry about not receiving their pay as an MP.

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

I’ll put your post on the volunteers message board for you, I am sure all the students delivering food and medicines, the student nurses working the ICU wards, the thousands of students volunteering on the vaccination and test sites and delivering test kits door to door to name but a few of the things they are doing will be well happy to know it’s all their fault.

 

It seems Paul is narrowing the circle of people he thinks are any use to mankind.

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12 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:


I'm not at all disagreeing with a cautious methodical opening up - much as per my earlier posts. 

What I am urgently trying to pour cold water on is those thinking that as we've all but vaccinated the 15M or most 20M 'at risk' as now - we can all go back to normal next month or early April!

 

So which bit of my post that you spent all of your weekend arguing with said back by next month or April?

 

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10 hours ago, Well b back said:

I’ll put your post on the volunteers message board for you, I am sure all the students delivering food and medicines, the student nurses working the ICU wards, the thousands of students volunteering on the vaccination and test sites and delivering test kits door to door to name but a few of the things they are doing will be well happy to know it’s all their fault.

 

That is irrelevant to my point.  No surprises there...  😂

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10 hours ago, Aggy said:

 

So which bit of my post that you spent all of your weekend arguing with said back by next month or April?

 

Not sure what your issue was Aggy but the only place I 'disagreed' with you was in ignoring prevalence if it jumped back up when the kids return or other relaxations. We need to see continual downward pressure to open up. I then went on to explain and provide stats to show that most in ICU were not nor had been in the over 65 group.

As per Johnson it seems  - it is indeed prevalence that will determine the rate of opening up. Everything else is a lag factor over this lead figure. Vaccines may well indeed help to depress prevalence but 20 million people vaccinated with 90% efficacy wouldn't want to be freely exposed to another 20M people with rampant Covid (all variants). You might then expect 2 million 'vaccinated' cases and no doubt a few % mortality in that too.

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

That is irrelevant to my point.  No surprises there...  😂

Your point was racist in one point and tosh in another. 

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20 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Your point was racist in one point and tosh in another. 

Ok, my woke friend 🤗

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3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Ok, my woke friend 🤗

Instead of constantly blaming everyone except those that you want to protect, why don’t you report on or even acknowledge posts with good news such as treatments and vaccine rollouts. Let me tell you some news you will hate, there were 2 proper new treatments approved for use last week, The Serum Institute of India is on target to produce their first 2 billion doses within the timescales anticipated, The EU took delivery of 12.5 million doses Saturday and are now cracking on, on their live vaccine counter ( which records doses in real time ) they have administered 256,000 doses between midnight and 11 am. 
And please don’t refer to me as your friend, racists and liars are the scum of the earth.

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Some more good news today, The W.H.O. Via Covax have confirmed that vaccines have now commenced moving on mass to Africa. The current vaccines are being mass produced for Covax in South Korea and the Serum Institute India.

The world begins to move forward.

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Here is an update on the world today with regards vaccines.

Currently at least 78 Countries have begun vaccination, and as at yesterday 176 million have been vaccinated. We are currently going at an estimated 5.99 million doses per day. The trackers clearly show the vaccine supplies beginning to increase and use a 75% of population to be vaccinated. 
There is one negative all the Countries you would expect to be at the top, US, U.K, China, EU and other rich Countries are all on track to vaccinate at current rates between June and end of September ( there will be a couple of countries that finish prior to this Israel and UAE ). So where is the negative in that ? Unfortunately the poorer Countries estimated dates are 5 years, let’s hope that changes and those that made commitments in June will at least keep to their words long term, if not short term.

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For some June to September at current rates is an incredibly optimistic suggestion.  Germany, for instance, had acheived just 3.2% of population with at least one jab yesterday. But there is plenty of reason to be optimistic about the potential to ramp up so hopefully you willl be proved correct.

Domestically things are looking good.  ONS study today said thst 20% of England's population had antibodies in the 28 days to 1 feb.  Obviously in the month since the mid point we have had lots of vaccinations and natural spread so current figures likely to be much much higher.  Good news also in this study is that the immunity (done the hard way) in the young was significantly above average (almost 1 in 3 16-24 year olds in Wales) so we have good levels of immunity in two key groups, the vulnerable and the mixers.

The more i think about this the more i see the future being determined by variants and how much we can reduce their spread until vaccines are reformulated.

Edited by Barbe bleu

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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Not sure what your issue was Aggy but the only place I 'disagreed' with you was in ignoring prevalence if it jumped back up when the kids return or other relaxations. We need to see continual downward pressure to open up. I then went on to explain and provide stats to show that most in ICU were not nor had been in the over 65 group.

As per Johnson it seems  - it is indeed prevalence that will determine the rate of opening up. Everything else is a lag factor over this lead figure. Vaccines may well indeed help to depress prevalence but 20 million people vaccinated with 90% efficacy wouldn't want to be freely exposed to another 20M people with rampant Covid (all variants). You might then expect 2 million 'vaccinated' cases and no doubt a few % mortality in that too.

You said we needed fewer than 1000 cases to open up, which is just an arbitrary nonsensical number (I’m well aware Hancock referred to it, and he’s clueless as well).

Prevalence is not a target. Controlling it is one way of achieving a target.

Do we always have fewer than 1,000 cases of flu in normal winters? Do we lockdown when we do have over 1,000 cases of flu in a normal winter? Do you think we should lockdown or have restrictions when we have over 1,000 cases of flu in a normal winter?

If your answer to those three is ‘no’, then ask why. Because they don’t result in the nhs being overwhelmed. So prevalence there is irrelevant.

If we had every adult vaccinated , nobody in hospital with covid, but 1,001 cases amongst kids would we lockdown? No. Why? Because it won’t overwhelm the nhs. 

So yes we need to keep an eye on prevalence, but if hospitals don’t become overwhelmed, or don’t look like they’re about to be overwhelmed, then that’s all that matters.

And as for Boris, all I can see online is that he and Whitty have said currently the effect of vaccines hasn’t caught up, so we need to reduce cases to reduce hospitalisation - we don’t want to start coming out of lockdown when we have high hospitalisation in the first place.

“Ultimately, what matters is whether it is preventing death and preventing the kind of illness that puts pressure on the NHS, because those are the things that lead to the introduction or prolonging of lockdowns,” a Department of Health and Social Care source said.” Guardian article from yesterday.

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Germany are 4.99 doses per 100 people you are missing their second doses it is 3.2 had one dose 1.7 had 2 doses.

 

Edited by Well b back
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11 minutes ago, Aggy said:

You said we needed fewer than 1000 cases to open up, which is just an arbitrary nonsensical number (I’m well aware Hancock referred to it, and he’s clueless as well).

Prevalence is not a target. Controlling it is one way of achieving a target.

Do we always have fewer than 1,000 cases of flu in normal winters? Do we lockdown when we do have over 1,000 cases of flu in a normal winter? Do you think we should lockdown or have restrictions when we have over 1,000 cases of flu in a normal winter?

If your answer to those three is ‘no’, then ask why. Because they don’t result in the nhs being overwhelmed. So prevalence there is irrelevant.

If we had every adult vaccinated , nobody in hospital with covid, but 1,001 cases amongst kids would we lockdown? No. Why? Because it won’t overwhelm the nhs. 

So yes we need to keep an eye on prevalence, but if hospitals don’t become overwhelmed, or don’t look like they’re about to be overwhelmed, then that’s all that matters.

And as for Boris, all I can see online is that he and Whitty have said currently the effect of vaccines hasn’t caught up, so we need to reduce cases to reduce hospitalisation - we don’t want to start coming out of lockdown when we have high hospitalisation in the first place.

“Ultimately, what matters is whether it is preventing death and preventing the kind of illness that puts pressure on the NHS, because those are the things that lead to the introduction or prolonging of lockdowns,” a Department of Health and Social Care source said.” Guardian article from yesterday.

Aggy - I don't need to argue with you - and certainly not on pedantic points.

However - the 1000 'prevalence before we fully open up is Hunt's number not mine or Hancock's. It was a number I suspect where we could be confident that TT could successfully manage/cope/operate. If it's 100 or 2,000 per day is one for the experts to choose. It's the concept that matters to control a notifiable dangerous potentially mutating vaccine busting disease.

Don't equate flu and covid - that's a comparison which is deeply flawed on all sorts of levels and only used by deniers and belittlers. I'm not even going to humour you there.

However - nearly all the points I made where discussed ad-nauseum on the TV last night - young clinically at risk Covid suffers not yet vaccinated (Group 6) and various 'Sage' professors (i.e Newsnight comes to mind) with very similar comments on prevalences and mortality even amongst the vaccinated if we open up too fast before prevalence is significantly down.

Over the last year you have consistently argued for 'locking up' the 'at risk' and then let covid largely run it's course through the rest of the population despite all the evidence of covid in the younger cohorts and long covid. The ICU numbers and hospitalization numbers vs age (ergo pressure the NHS)  just illuminate that overlooked fact. Your latest plot is just the same except relying on the vaccine to do the same. Vaccines will certainly help reduce prevalence hand in hand with various lockdowns but the best prevention is not to get it at all. I rather like the analogous idea of a vaccine as a safety belt and air-bag when you crash your car into a wall at 70 mph. The best prevention is not to crash the car at all. The vaccine is to stop you getting seriously ill if you are unfortunate enough to be exposed to Covid.

Lastly - as to kids - if they have high prevalence why wouldn't it spread to their unvaccinated at present parents? It's an absurd notion.

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13 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Germany are 4.99 doses per 100 people you are missing their second doses.

 

5 doses per 100 people would.equate to around 4.1 million doses which is very roughly what the federal government claims.

But, inthink, only 3.3 ish % have had a jab of any sort. And 1.7% have had both.

I get 1.7 +1.7 + (3.3-1.7) or 1.7+1.7+ 1.6 = 5 

You are getting 1.7+1.7 + 3.3 =6.7  which eould.require  5.5 million doses...

 

 

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BREAKINGA further 1.7m added to shielding list in England

An extra 1.7 million people will be asked to shield in England, the government has announced.

There are already 2.3 million on the shielding list and for some it will also mean they are now prioritised for vaccination.

The move comes after a new model was developed that takes into extra factors rather than just someone's health condition as the original list does.

This calculation includes things like ethnicity, deprivation and weight to work out a person's risk of becoming seriously ill if they were to catch Covid. 

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