Corona Virus main thread

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

55 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Similar to flu jab ones if you get those ?

No. I can honestly say I have never had any form of influenza in my life.

Name everything from cancer to broken boned and I've had them. I haven't even many of my own teeth left anymore, they are plastic.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

34 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Slightly sore arm, nothing else.

Your round was it?

[Rock The Boat 1,322]

On 08/11/2020 at 08:53, A Load of Squit said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/covid-vaccine-taskforce-pr-taxpayer-cost-b1683887.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1604798698

The head of the UK's vaccine taskforce has hired eight public relations consultants at a cost to the taxpayer of £670,000, according to leaked documents seen by The Sunday Times.

Kate Bingham, who was appointed to chair the group by Boris Johnson, reportedly "insisted" on hiring the team from London agency Admiral Associates.

The consultants have been overseeing her media strategy since June at the equivalent salary of £167,000 a year each, it is claimed.

Kate who?

Venture capitalist Kate Bingham is married to a Tory minister & has *no* experience in healthcare. So @BorisJohnson made her head of his “vaccines taskforce”.

 

 

 

 

Some were quick to write off Kate even before she began

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

26 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

South Africa strain.

Sad news on AZ and informs why our government is so worried about it.

However, place in context - the vaccines have generally shown far more efficacy than we could of ever hoped for so quickly even if not perfect but we need to be cautious. The good news is that all the vaccines can be updated by the autumn as we learn more.

A leading Harvard scientist said today that we have to accept, and I assume she meant anyone alive today, this virus will be around forever.

Zahawi wouldn't be totally drawn but said we might have to have the vaccine, or hopefully I suppose a better one, just like the flu jab.

However, I wonder if that might involve a cost, as the normal flu jab isn't free for everyone, and could end p with much of the population unprotected.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

A leading Harvard scientist said today that we have to accept, and I assume she meant anyone alive today, this virus will be around forever.

Zahawi wouldn't be totally drawn but said we might have to have the vaccine, or hopefully I suppose a better one, just like the flu jab.

However, I wonder if that might involve a cost, as the normal flu jab isn't free for everyone, and could end p with much of the population unprotected.

 

Quite possibly but my comment was really to dial back some of the gung ho simplistic view that once vaccinated you're immune and we can all party by Easter. It won't work out that way. We need to get the prevalence down the hard way (lockdown) in conjunction with the various vaccines.

[Well b back 3,180]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Quite possibly but my comment was really to dial back some of the gung ho simplistic view that once vaccinated you're immune and we can all party by Easter. It won't work out that way. We need to get the prevalence down the hard way (lockdown) in conjunction with the various vaccines.

That’s the way I see it to as it is vital that we keep the South African variant at bay until we have a booster. 
As you would expect, now the full trial data has been released South Africa have suspended AstraZeneca jabs and switched to Pfizer.

I assume we will carry on with our strategy to immunise as quickly as possible. There is surely a conversation to be had with lots of AstraZeneca currently available. Maybe close our borders ( completely ) and swap our Pfizer orders ( once we have enough for dose 2 ) with AstraZeneca from South Africa, EU, USA, Australia etc. Then slam down on any variant positive. 
We then give ourselves 2 options, if it is found to prevent severe COVID lovely job, if it does not we will have our booster ready for end of August.

I have put the above for a discussion, not fact or a personal opinion, would be interested on views. The trial results by the way are now out 20% effective against South African, likely to be the same against Brazilian and if the Kent / South African combined variant was to take hold. Of course it maybe a second dose of Pfizer whizzes the efficacy back up.

[Well b back 3,180]

A little more on the South Africa suspension.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-55975052

[horsefly 4,273]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/south-africa-halts-rollout-of-oxford-vaccine-as-britons-may-need-third-jab/ar-BB1dtv2w?ocid=msedgntp

Yet more proof of Dr Fauci's claim: "As I've said many, many times, and I would like to say it again so people could understand it, the best way to prevent the evolution of mutations is to suppress the replication of the virus in the community".

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

11 hours ago, Well b back said:

That’s the way I see it to as it is vital that we keep the South African variant at bay until we have a booster. 
As you would expect, now the full trial data has been released South Africa have suspended AstraZeneca jabs and switched to Pfizer.

I assume we will carry on with our strategy to immunise as quickly as possible. There is surely a conversation to be had with lots of AstraZeneca currently available. Maybe close our borders ( completely ) and swap our Pfizer orders ( once we have enough for dose 2 ) with AstraZeneca from South Africa, EU, USA, Australia etc. Then slam down on any variant positive. 
We then give ourselves 2 options, if it is found to prevent severe COVID lovely job, if it does not we will have our booster ready for end of August.

I have put the above for a discussion, not fact or a personal opinion, would be interested on views. The trial results by the way are now out 20% effective against South African, likely to be the same against Brazilian and if the Kent / South African combined variant was to take hold. Of course it maybe a second dose of Pfizer whizzes the efficacy back up.

Yes - I used the phrase a bucket of cold water before and that's what this is. A wake up call.

Our best means of defense at present is the lockdown - that's what doing the heavy lifting whilst the vaccines (all of them) are doing an amazing job of getting up to speed with the virus and all its siblings. But until the prevalence is really low the vaccines in and of themselves are not an answer. It's otherwise a bit like relying on an airbag and safety belt to save your life whilst you deliberately crash you car at 70mph into a wall. It could be messy!

 

[ron obvious 1,495]

This guy's very good & shows just how much further we need to go to get to grips with the virus:

 

[Barbe bleu 809]

18 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - I used the phrase a bucket of cold water before and that's what this is. A wake up call.

Our best means of defense at present is the lockdown - that's what doing the heavy lifting whilst the vaccines (all of them) are doing an amazing job of getting up to speed with the virus and all its siblings. But until the prevalence is really low the vaccines in and of themselves are not an answer. It's otherwise a bit like relying on an airbag and safety belt to save your life whilst you deliberately crash you car at 70mph into a wall. It could be messy!

 

I kind of agree and kind of disagree. 

Vaccines are the only way out, they are very much the answer- we all either get one or we get it.

But we should use lockdowns to a) stop the SA variant digging itself in more and, if we fail, to reduce incidence nonetheless and  b) allow us to reduce spread of the dominant strains for the pre existing reasons.

Vaccine reformulation should be pretty swift, hopefully as simple as (ie) Pfizer providing code that seems to work against the new antigen to (ie) AZ and the latter incorporating it into the mix on the understanding that it might work the other way in the future.

Might be one for WBB, Has the SA report been released yet?  And is there any evidence in it of TCell efficacy effect?

 

 

[Barbe bleu 809]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/south-africa-halts-rollout-of-oxford-vaccine-as-britons-may-need-third-jab/ar-BB1dtv2w?ocid=msedgntp

Yet more proof of Dr Fauci's claim: "As I've said many, many times, and I would like to say it again so people could understand it, the best way to prevent the evolution of mutations is to suppress the replication of the virus in the community".

I dont think anyone is denying that if there is no virus it cannot mutate or that the more of the virus  there is in circulation the more the liklihood of adverse mutation grows. The question though is how much so we sacrifice to reduce a possibility.   As aggy has said previously if we always restricted our lives through fear of new  pathogens emerging we would never leave the house. 

This is not primarily a scientific question, its a political one.

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I kind of agree and kind of disagree. 

Vaccines are the only way out, they are very much the answer- we all either get one or we get it.

But we should use lockdowns to a) stop the SA variant digging itself in more and, if we fail, to reduce incidence nonetheless and  b) allow us to reduce spread of the dominant strains for the pre existing reasons.

Vaccine reformulation should be pretty swift, hopefully as simple as (ie) Pfizer providing code that seems to work against the new antigen to (ie) AZ and the latter incorporating it into the mix on the understanding that it might work the other way in the future.

Might be one for WBB, Has the SA report been released yet?  And is there any evidence in it of TCell efficacy effect?

 

 

The point BB is that even if the vaccine has a 90% efficacy (let alone the 10 to 20% AZ as reported in SA)  - but the virus is still very common in many people you may meet (i.e. all those unvaccinated workers as a starter) 10% of those so vaccinated will still go on have full blown Covid. Eeek.

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[JF 694]

Just finished my self isolating after catching this. Weird virus to be honest. I’m asthmatic so it’s hit that pretty hard but other than that I wouldn’t say I was what I’d call ill with it. Yet I’m now out of that self isolating period and I feel knackered even though I’ve done nothing! All very strange, I feel tired and  rough without actually feeling ill is the only way I can describe it. 

[Well b back 3,180]

5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I kind of agree and kind of disagree. 

Vaccines are the only way out, they are very much the answer- we all either get one or we get it.

But we should use lockdowns to a) stop the SA variant digging itself in more and, if we fail, to reduce incidence nonetheless and  b) allow us to reduce spread of the dominant strains for the pre existing reasons.

Vaccine reformulation should be pretty swift, hopefully as simple as (ie) Pfizer providing code that seems to work against the new antigen to (ie) AZ and the latter incorporating it into the mix on the understanding that it might work the other way in the future.

Might be one for WBB, Has the SA report been released yet?  And is there any evidence in it of TCell efficacy effect?

 

 

Yes see my discussion points earlier, 22% effective, its wether it protects from severe COVID.

[Well b back 3,180]

Just now, JF said:

Just finished my self isolating after catching this. Weird virus to be honest. I’m asthmatic so it’s hit that pretty hard but other than that I wouldn’t say I was what I’d call ill with it. Yet I’m now out of that self isolating period and I feel knackered even though I’ve done nothing! All very strange, I feel tired and  rough without actually feeling ill is the only way I can describe it. 

That’s how it got me JF if that’s any consolation. Was not to bad in the initial 10 days but absolutely knackered for 2 1/2 weeks after. Seemed ok in the mornings but then as soon as I started doing anything ( 5 minute walk to po for instance ) was left out of it.

Never got the cough.

[Indy 3,283]

I think people are getting hooked on this eradication idea, it’s not going away, we talked about this last April, it’ll be a controlled virus like Flu. 
 

The flu vaccines are only 55% effective and we accept a level of death without shutting down the globe! The same will come of Covid, there will be a level of death which will be deemed acceptable against the cost. Once we get there which will be a vaccine which sees at least 80% of all people out of hospital and death caused b6 Covid at the levels of flu we will return to a normal way of life!

I think we’ve become too focused on the threat and searching for an answer to something which will need to be accepted as a way of life.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Indy

[Barbe bleu 809]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The point BB is that even if the vaccine has a 90% efficacy (let alone the 10 to 20% AZ as reported in SA)  - but the virus is still very common in many people you may meet (i.e. all those unvaccinated workers as a starter) 10% of those so vaccinated will still go on have full blown Covid. Eeek.

 

Before SA types became a thing we were in a situation where we would likely be trying to hold R at less than one with a combination if vaccines and controls with the latter reducing as the former rises.

I think though that we need to try to see SA off so need to hold R at a lot less than one  and even more so in certain areas.

[JF 694]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

That’s how it got me JF if that’s any consolation. Was not to bad in the initial 10 days but absolutely knackered for 2 1/2 weeks after. Seemed ok in the mornings but then as soon as I started doing anything ( 5 minute walk to po for instance ) was left out of it.

Never got the cough.

I’ve got the cough terribly but some of that is asthma as well. But yeah I certainly wasn’t ‘ill’ with it but very tired and as you say even now the smallest of tasks like taking the rubbish out leaves me knackered and in a cold sweat. Hopefully that doesn’t last too long as my job is very physical and I’m gonna struggle with it like this!

[Barbe bleu 809]

25 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Yes see my discussion points earlier, 22% effective, its wether it protects from severe COVID.

Yes, I saw earlier and I have seen the 22% in the press but the geek in me would like to see the formal paper.  

I'm confused as to why the AZ formulation would be so much worse than the other vaccines that work similarly.  Perhaps there is an additional protein being coded for in the Pfizer etc formulation that compensates for loss of efficacy in another.

22% is still better than  than nothing though and who knows TCells function might still be very high

[sonyc 5,481]

"be careful about rushing to judgements" seems to be a key sentence in this rather useful summary article on vaccinations and variants (BBC source)

Covid: Scientists developing vaccine boosters to tackle variants - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55976037

 

[CANARYKING 634]

Some scientist on Jeremy Vine has just said that things will NEVER go back to normal, said wedding firms and musicians should GIVE UP because they will NEVER work again. Bye, bye Carrow Road

[Well b back 3,180]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes, I saw earlier and I have seen the 22% in the press but the geek in me would like to see the formal paper.  

I'm confused as to why the AZ formulation would be so much worse than the other vaccines that work similarly.  Perhaps there is an additional protein being coded for in the Pfizer etc formulation that compensates for loss of efficacy in another.

22% is still better than  than nothing though and who knows TCells function might still be very high

Did you see my earlier post BB ? I deliberately put it up for discussion. It is not the actual paper, but it is what AstraZeneca are saying is going into the paper. The trial is very small ( in comparison to the whole trial ) but it involved nobody of any real age. There is also a lot of AstraZeneca vaccine in the world at the moment which I also mentioned.

 

[sonyc 5,481]

11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Did you see my earlier post BB ? I deliberately put it up for discussion. It is not the actual paper, but it is what AstraZeneca are saying is going into the paper. The trial is very small ( in comparison to the whole trial ) but it involved nobody of any real age. There is also a lot of AstraZeneca vaccine in the world at the moment which I also mentioned.

 

Indeed and that is why we might not jump to hasty conclusions just yet (as noted in the BBC summary article) .....as you say a small test size and maybe 31 years average age.

[JF 694]

16 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Some scientist on Jeremy Vine has just said that things will NEVER go back to normal, said wedding firms and musicians should GIVE UP because they will NEVER work again. Bye, bye Carrow Road

Luckily his opinions are of zero relevance then. Things will return to normal as people will want to return to normal and the economy will demand a return to normal 

[Barbe bleu 809]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Did you see my earlier post BB ? I deliberately put it up for discussion. It is not the actual paper, but it is what AstraZeneca are saying is going into the paper. The trial is very small ( in comparison to the whole trial ) but it involved nobody of any real age. There is also a lot of AstraZeneca vaccine in the world at the moment which I also mentioned.

 

My view is that is the other RNA and adenovirus vaccines work better AZ should be able to get theirs to work as they are all essentially the same thing.  

Mean time we look at other vaccine types, press ahead with plan A and try to eliminate strains with the new mutation. Ie we are on the best track right now so let's stay on it

 

[ricardo 7,328]

58 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Some scientist on Jeremy Vine has just said that things will NEVER go back to normal, said wedding firms and musicians should GIVE UP because they will NEVER work again. Bye, bye Carrow Road

Yes, I agree and we will never see snow again either😁

[Well b back 3,180]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Indeed and that is why we might not jump to hasty conclusions just yet (as noted in the BBC summary article) .....as you say a small test size and maybe 31 years average age.

The WHO held their meeting today so it will be very interesting to see their outcome as the Oxford vaccine is an important part of their strategy and there are nearly a billion doses that will be prepared by The Serum Institute of India. Personally I think they will find a way to approve it, but it certainly isn’t a given.

[Indy 3,283]

4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

The WHO held their meeting today so it will be very interesting to see their outcome as the Oxford vaccine is an important part of their strategy and there are nearly a billion doses that will be prepared by The Serum Institute of India. Personally I think they will find a way to approve it, but it certainly isn’t a given.

They key is still about level of severity, if the AZ vaccine keeps people with the SA variant out of hospitals and cuts potential death then it’s the main driver.

[Barry Brockes 145]

Quite a few people in this part of the world trying to change their appointment from a known AZ centre to a known Pfizer centre.