Corona Virus main thread

[Well b back 3,200]

@Van wink

Should have also mentioned what needs ultra celebrating is how it seems to be stopping transmission. If that works out right, and the other vaccines are similar this could be a major breakthrough.

[ricardo 7,384]

32 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's only the 3rd of Feb & Mystic Moy is giving us data for the 28th of Feb.

 

Some have the gift.😉

[Well b back 3,200]

30 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's only the 3rd of Feb & Mystic Moy is giving us data for the 28th of Feb.

 

Not sure if he is using those figures to clap and cheer deaths in other countries or is trying to say the U.K. are doing much better, either way not good. I have no idea where the figures come from but hope the EU does not include the U.K. figures as we were part of the EU until 1/1.

This is a time to celebrate the science achievements and discuss how the world can get out of this. The teams at Oxford, Pfizer, Moderna, Sputnik to name but a few have got us close, we just need somebody now to design a cheap treatment, and that will be the final bit of the jigsaw ( provided governments can actually find common ground ).

[Barry Brockes 147]

With regards to your last paragraph WBB has Ivermectin ever been discussed on any of the previous 610 pages of this thread do you recall? Friends of my son with scientific minds better than his, even allowing for his 1st in Biology, are surprised that a proven, and cheap, drug such as Ivermectin apparently seems to have been ignored during the whole Covid debate.

[Van wink 2,994]

40 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Be a bit careful on this one VW. The Oxford vaccine 8 - 12 weeks was due to the trial data and was the recommendation to regulators from AstraZeneca. The trial data shew 72% the real life data 76%. It is the Pfizer vaccine that was done differently from what was submitted to regulators, if that works lots of praise, Oxford working via this strategy is down to AstraZeneca and Oxford realising the data shew delaying the second jab seemed to improve the efficacy.

 

My understanding was that the twelve weeks decision by MHRA was made on interim data WBB, also JCVI advice on spacing out the doses? If thats not the case happy to be corrected. As I said I'm only referring to AZ, I suspect things may change on Pfizer, particularly Cambridge data yesterday was not encouraging, we will have to wait on that one.

 

[paul moy 235]

21 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Not sure if he is using those figures to clap and cheer deaths in other countries or is trying to say the U.K. are doing much better, either way not good. I have no idea where the figures come from but hope the EU does not include the U.K. figures as we were part of the EU until 1/1.

This is a time to celebrate the science achievements and discuss how the world can get out of this. The teams at Oxford, Pfizer, Moderna, Sputnik to name but a few have got us close, we just need somebody now to design a cheap treatment, and that will be the final bit of the jigsaw ( provided governments can actually find common ground ).

Some appeared to clap and cheer when we hit 100,000 and relish that we were apparently doing so poorly under Boris, and those tended to be our fellow EU remoaners and Labourites.  So, just adding some perspective and realism as their EU hero Macron continues to berate our vaccines and the rollout.   

Incidentally, without Boris at the helm we would not have gone our own way in ordering vaccines and would be suffering similarly to the EU, as Labour condemned us for daring to not follow the bureaucratic EU method. 😎🤗

[paul moy 235]

 

The EU continues to want to shoot itself in both feet and does not want to believe UK science !!!!!  😂

Or is it purely political in order to convince elderly EU citizens that their delay in approving Astrazeneca  was justified so that they won't complain about not getting vaccinated as it is useless for them anyway.

Thus, Belgium have now also banned Astrazenica......... for over 55s :

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1392776/eu-vaccine-news-astrazeneca-belgium-ban-over55s-oxford-vaccine-covid-latest

Bearing this in mind Astrazeneca should stop deliveries to the EU imo and save the jab for elderly throughout the rest of the world. Don't let them waste it on their young.... 😎

Edited February 3, 2021 by paul moy

[Well b back 3,200]

17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

My understanding was that the twelve weeks decision by MHRA was made on interim data WBB, also JCVI advice on spacing out the doses? If thats not the case happy to be corrected. As I said I'm only referring to AZ, I suspect things may change on Pfizer, particularly Cambridge data yesterday was not encouraging, we will have to wait on that one.

 

Cambridge data ? Not seen that one VW, can you send me a link as the Israeli data is tending to suggest the best way is to keep to Pfizer’s 21 - 28 days, thanks.

You are correct MHRA recommended Oxford based on the data supplied, at 8 - 12 weeks, is my understanding which had pointed out there was reason to believe that delaying the jabs brought the efficacy up. The JCVI again you are correct re Pfizer. There was proven data for Oxford and their new paper it is believed will show the efficacy at least 90% delaying the jabs. Hope that makes sense. Any way nobody had any data on transmissibility so that data is very promising.

[Well b back 3,200]

3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

 

The EU continues to want to shoot itself in both feet and does not want to believe UK science !!!!!  😂

Belgium have now also banned Astrazenica......... for over 55s :

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1392776/eu-vaccine-news-astrazeneca-belgium-ban-over55s-oxford-vaccine-covid-latest

 

But you pointed out with your anti vaxing message there was little or no data for over 55’s, are you saying you were wrong ?. There is proof it is more than working for the older age groups in the U.K. but as Andrew Pollard said this morning they are yet to publish a paper as per the original Lancet paper, saying further data will follow.

They are using Moderna and Pfizer for their older citizens, they are not leaving them to die as you are suggesting, that is their strategy, leave them alone to get on with it. If you want to just talk about The EU why don’t you put that on the Brexit thread.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

The best bit of news - and the bit that should inform strategy  - is the suppression of transmissibility.

The best way to stop the virus is not to catch it in the first place.

The suppression of transmissibility should lead to those most at risk of SPREADING the disease being vaccinated as a matter of urgency.

That may well be teenagers, students and those actively working that cant help but meet people.

I know 'Deaths' is as a strong metric for politicians (and yes Sumption's quote was taken too simply but is obviously correct)  but its not the only metric that matters.

[paul moy 235]

Just now, Well b back said:

But you pointed out with your anti vaxing message there was little or no data for over 55’s, are you saying you were wrong ?. There is proof it is more than working for the older age groups in the U.K. but as Andrew Pollard said this morning they are yet to publish a paper as per the original Lancet paper, saying further data will follow.

They are using Moderna and Pfizer for their older citizens, they are not leaving them to die as you are suggesting, that is their strategy, leave them alone to get on with it. If you want to just talk about The EU why don’t you put that on the Brexit thread.

 

 

I said nothing of the sort and you know it. All I said was that drugs and vaccines in general are not tested on unhealthy people which basically means that it will be tested on fewer elderly.  Whether there was sufficient data was up to our scientists to decide and they obviously decided that there is, just as the EMA of the EU have also decided.

The decrying of the vaccine in the EU is purely political imo as they have no vaccine and now includes Poland, France, Belgium and Germany.  They are going to kill their elderly with their spite and I will continue to calculate the figures to show EU failure. 

[paul moy 235]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The best bit of news - and the bit that should inform strategy  - is the suppression of transmissibility.

The best way to stop the virus is not to catch it in the first place.

The suppression of transmissibility should lead to those most at risk of SPREADING the disease being vaccinated as a matter of urgency.

That may well be teenagers, students and those actively working that cant help but meet people.

I know 'Deaths' is as a strong metric for politicians (and yes Sumption's quote was taken too simply but is obviously correct)  but its not the only metric that matters.

Deaths are the main metric and therefore the elderly must be the priority for any government.

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

16 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Deaths are the main metric and therefore the elderly must be the priority for any government.

Too simplistic.

At what price - more deaths / disease / disability in the young ? 

In hospital treatment ultimately comes down to quality of life. The DNR.

I doubt here is one parent or grandparent that wouldn't risk everything for their children.

[Van wink 2,994]

52 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Cambridge data ? Not seen that one VW, can you send me a link as the Israeli data is tending to suggest the best way is to keep to Pfizer’s 21 - 28 days, thanks.

You are correct MHRA recommended Oxford based on the data supplied, at 8 - 12 weeks, is my understanding which had pointed out there was reason to believe that delaying the jabs brought the efficacy up. The JCVI again you are correct re Pfizer. There was proven data for Oxford and their new paper it is believed will show the efficacy at least 90% delaying the jabs. Hope that makes sense. Any way nobody had any data on transmissibility so that data is very promising.

 

Small study would seem to support  keeping Pfizer at the short interval between doses re some mutations, as insufficient antibodies made in elderly

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-likely-to-be-effective-against-b117-strain-of-sars-cov-2

Dr Dami Collier, the main co-investigator on the studies, added: “Our data suggest that a significant proportion of people aged over eighty may not have developed protective neutralising antibodies against infection three weeks after their first dose of the vaccine. But it’s reassuring to see that after two doses, serum from every individual was able to neutralise the virus.”

Edited February 3, 2021 by Van wink

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Too simplistic.

At what price - more deaths / disease / disability in the young ? 

In hospital treatment ultimately comes down to quality of life. The DNR.

I doubt here is one parent or grandparent that wouldn't risk everything for their children.

The headline death rates are what the critics look at and rightfully so. The young will be vaccinated in good time, but the elderly for obvious reasons must be the priority, and it was an independent body that  set the criteria. 

Commonsense says vaccinate those most at risk first and I back the UK for this reason above the crazy EU who now want to vaccinate the youngest first.  Could it be that the 'younger' are more easily manipulated and thus likely to be pro EU  and that killing older folk will increase the EU demographic in its favour .....  probably

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

17 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The headline death rates are what the critics look at and rightfully so. The young will be vaccinated in good time, but the elderly for obvious reasons must be the priority, and it was an independent body that  set the criteria. 

Commonsense says vaccinate those most at risk first and I back the UK for this reason above the crazy EU who now want to vaccinate the youngest first.  Could it be that the 'younger' are more easily manipulated and thus likely to be pro EU  and that killing older folk will increase the EU demographic in its favour .....  probably

I thought it would go over your head. Nothing at all to do with the EU.

It might mean for instance we prioritize teachers and schools above otherwise healthy 50/60 year olds.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

26 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 

Small study would seem to support  keeping Pfizer at the short interval between doses re some mutations, as insufficient antibodies made in elderly

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-likely-to-be-effective-against-b117-strain-of-sars-cov-2

Dr Dami Collier, the main co-investigator on the studies, added: “Our data suggest that a significant proportion of people aged over eighty may not have developed protective neutralising antibodies against infection three weeks after their first dose of the vaccine. But it’s reassuring to see that after two doses, serum from every individual was able to neutralise the virus.”

Hmm - Seems like win one lose one on 12 weeks AZ  / Pfizer. Guess Moderna will be the same?

[Well b back 3,200]

30 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 

Small study would seem to support  keeping Pfizer at the short interval between doses re some mutations, as insufficient antibodies made in elderly

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-likely-to-be-effective-against-b117-strain-of-sars-cov-2

Dr Dami Collier, the main co-investigator on the studies, added: “Our data suggest that a significant proportion of people aged over eighty may not have developed protective neutralising antibodies against infection three weeks after their first dose of the vaccine. But it’s reassuring to see that after two doses, serum from every individual was able to neutralise the virus.”

Thanks VW.

That does seem to back the WHO recommendations of 6 weeks maximum. Interestingly America are now doing 6 weeks and Pfizer are holding back second doses to ensure they are not used and saved.

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Hmm - Seems like win one lose one on 12 weeks AZ  / Pfizer. Guess Moderna will be the same?

Yeh it’s a small study but indicators moving in the wrong direction on Pfizer. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Thanks VW.

That does seem to back the WHO recommendations of 6 weeks maximum. Interestingly America are now doing 6 weeks and Pfizer are holding back second doses to ensure they are not used and saved.

I’m expecting us to change to 6 weeks as evidence increases

[Well b back 3,200]

Some more good news, the latest data seems to suggest we still have some immunity at 6 months ( 88% ) after a positive test. That was done before the new variants, but still good news.

[Well b back 3,200]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I’m expecting us to change to 6 weeks as evidence increases

That’s for Pfizer only. Oxford will stay at 8 - 12 weeks, that’s not correcting you VW just making the point of what the discussion is around. 

I was vaccinating last couple of days and the doctors seemed to think we have to change to 21 - 28. The Israeli data is so positive that this must be being discussed.

[Van wink 2,994]

18 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Some more good news, the latest data seems to suggest we still have some immunity at 6 months ( 88% ) after a positive test. That was done before the new variants, but still good news.

Yeh good news. Thing is we are moving towards gaining community immunity, I won’t use the word, maybe at a lower level, but there will be a residual as we are vaccinated, become exposed and infected by new variants, some will be very ill and die but in general terms we will be better equipped to fight the infection.Covid will then become more akin to similar non novel viruses that we live with. It’s all moving in the right way IMO

Edited February 3, 2021 by Van wink

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

10 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I’m expecting us to change to 6 weeks as evidence increases

 

2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

That’s for Pfizer only. Oxford will stay at 8 - 12 weeks, that’s not correcting you VW just making the point of what the discussion is around. 

I was vaccinating last couple of days and the doctors seemed to think we have to change to 21 - 28. The Israeli data is so positive that this must be being discussed.

Yes - I think a lot will also revolve around how serious or otherwise the new variants are and the vaccine match and updates to them. This looks like being a long hard battle over the next year or two with several bumps in the road!

[Well b back 3,200]

2 hours ago, Barry Brockes said:

With regards to your last paragraph WBB has Ivermectin ever been discussed on any of the previous 610 pages of this thread do you recall? Friends of my son with scientific minds better than his, even allowing for his 1st in Biology, are surprised that a proven, and cheap, drug such as Ivermectin apparently seems to have been ignored during the whole Covid debate.

Hi Barry

Thanks.

I will look that up for you, must say I missed that. The final bit of the jigsaw will be a proper treatment.

[Van wink 2,994]

Local data encouraging.

[paul moy 235]

Add Sweden to those EU countries that decry AstraZeneca and vaccinating the elderly, and thus also clearly believe that our scientists are useless and risk-takers. 

Personally, I believe that our biotech scientists are the best in the world and this will be further proven over the next few months.

 

[Well b back 3,200]

@Barry Brockes

Here is the Lancet report and the fda report. Interestingly the Lancet seems to say still in trials ( dated January 2021 ) and the FDA say don’t use ( dated December 2020 ). I will do some more digging.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30464-8/fulltext

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/product-safety-information/faq-covid-19-and-ivermectin-intended-animals

 

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Our mass vaccination centre are now giving the jab to any over 70s who apply. Apparently the admin is so slow that by the time letters are sent out there is a gap growing each day. So much that there are staff to perform 1000 jabs a day and are only doing 500. 

So any over 70 can phone up and book any available slot. 

I'm not 70 until March so fingers crossed they include 69 year olds.

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Our mass vaccination centre are now giving the jab to any over 70s who apply. Apparently the admin is so slow that by the time letters are sent out there is a gap growing each day. So much that there are staff to perform 1000 jabs a day and are only doing 500. 

So any over 70 can phone up and book any available slot. 

I'm not 70 until March so fingers crossed they include 69 year olds.

I thought your were 28 and 500 odd months....

That's my story anyway!