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4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

I know you don't like to admit it but we really should be proud.  We are tops in biotech and this has been acknowledged for a few years and now we have absolute proof that we are a world leader which augurs well for our independent future.

https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/uk-research-and-european-union/role-of-eu-researcher-collaboration-and-mobility/snapshot-of-the-UK-research-workforce/

The main thing is collaborating, fortunately these people see things on a global level.

 

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7 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

But Covid is more serious for people with underlying health conditions, like HIV - doh.  Hence why it's an important point that has been flagged about the results - it gives a level of protection for HIV positive people against Covid.  I'm assuming those people are having treatment for HIV. 

 

Apologies, we're at cross purposes.  I thought you were talking about a vaccine for HIV, not people with HIV having the covid vaccine.  I wonder why one hasn't been developed btw?  As if we didn't know.

 

Edited by benchwarmer

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18 minutes ago, Herman said:

Paul Moy brews it up. You really don't want to know what is in it.😉

Eye of newt, toe of frog

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7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The finance is global but the expertise is clearly in the UK.  Foreign workers are also magnetically drawn towards us and for some reason wish to reside in one of the most free, vibrant, welcoming and independent countries in the world.

Edited by paul moy

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5 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The finance is global but the expertise is clearly in the UK.  

Yes, the UK has been among the leaders in this field since the turn of the century.  All developed while we were in the EU and part financed by EU funds.  Let's hope it continues.

 

Edited by benchwarmer
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2 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Yes, the UK has been among the leaders in this field since the turn of the century.  All developed while were in the EU and part financed with EU funds.  Let's hope it continues.

 

That was not EU money.  It was our money redirected to make it look like their money !!!!!! 

It will indeed be interesting to see what money they can redirect in the future as they are effectively broke after our leaving.

Edited by paul moy

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52 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The finance is global but the expertise is clearly in the UK.  Foreign workers are also magnetically drawn towards us and for some reason wish to reside in one of the most free, vibrant, welcoming and independent countries in the world.

That was our proud reputation.  It was never entirely deserved, and Brexit has given it a severe dent.  Many foreigners find Brexit utterly baffling because to them it's so out of character.  Just not British.  They'd never seen the ugly side before.

Once a reputation is lost it's nigh on impossible to get it back.  Known as the Ratner Effect.

 

Edited by benchwarmer
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15 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Yes, the UK has been among the leaders in this field since the turn of the century.  All developed while we were in the EU and part financed by EU funds.  Let's hope it continues.

 

So actually, a percentage of UK taxpayers money returned to us with a different flag on it🇪🇺

😉

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25 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The finance is global but the expertise is clearly in the UK.  Foreign workers are also magnetically drawn towards us and for some reason wish to reside in one of the most free, vibrant, welcoming and independent countries in the world.

More ill-informed nonsense from Paul Moy. 

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3 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

That was our proud reputation.  It was never entirely deserved, and Brexit has given it a severe dent.  Many foreigners find Brexit utterly baffling because to them it's just so out of character.  Just not British.  They'd never seen the ugly side before.

 

That's the sad fact. We were an open minded, attractive, welcoming country. We could train and attract the best scientists through cooperation, good wages, freedom of movement and decent living conditions. How many will want to come or stay in this petty minded, nationalistic and closed country is anyone's guess. And unless the government throws a lot of money around we should expect a brain drain too.

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

 And unless the government throws a lot of money around we should expect a brain drain too.

Allow me to calm your fears Herman.

I'm not planning to leave😉😁

On another note, I have just received my free packet of Government supplied vitamin D tablets in todays post.

😀

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41 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Absolutely! And it's one of the main reasons scientists were  uniformly anti-Brexit. Find me a reputable scientific lab without a great number of EU citizens, and I'll find you a lab that has squared the circle. As was pointed out time and again, Brexit threatens the continued world-leading excellence of UK science. What a shame that Brexit bigotry threatens what many superficially claim as one of the great things about the UK.

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33 minutes ago, ricardo said:

So actually, a percentage of UK taxpayers money returned to us with a different flag on it🇪🇺

😉

 

49 minutes ago, paul moy said:

That was not EU money.  It was our money redirected to make it look like their money !!!!!! 

It will indeed be interesting to see what money they can redirect in the future as they are effectively broke after our leaving.

Our contribution to the EU will turn out to be a small price compared to the economic cost of Brexit.  The government is already throwing compensation money at the problem and we haven't been out for a month yet.  Add it to the eye-watering cost of covid and we're in real trouble for years to come.  

Edited by benchwarmer

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11 minutes ago, Herman said:

Vitamin D 2for1 and Holland and Barrett. It turns gammon into a light ham.

Wiltshire dry cured

with Colmans mustard.👍

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1 hour ago, benchwarmer said:

The information comes from the Lancet if you want to check it.

Shortage of older volunteers is recognised as a problem with all clinical trials, but it's a particular drawback in this instance because the elderly are disproportionately affected by covid.

Indeed, it is safe, it seems to have the same immune response in older adults and is ‘ highly likely to be very effective ‘. However there was no data ( 2 positive cases ) that proved it was effective. That by the way was for over 55’s.

There may well be more data available now, as there is a new paper about to be published. The reason for the lack of data on the over 55’s was that they joined the trial late it was not through a shortage, that is a very important point, the unblinded results included 55 - 83 year olds and was taken from 1418 participants.

 

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Guys, Can we all get past this jingoistic crap on the vaccines.

Time for some statesmanship else we will ALL lose.

I see today and yesterday AZ legal position appears to be unwinding as we speak and the EU has also made very clear what their 'suspicions' are. It's notable in that regard that Johnson has refrained from saying we won't share 'our' supplies. Somebody has given him some good advice 😉 . I'd really hoped that all this would of been sorted out of public gaze but I guess it got wrapped up in a fading union jack.

As to Novavax, excellent news all round especially on the SA variant. Going to be manufactured all over the world and many sites in the EU too (Novax's own facility in Prague is a 1Bn/does a year site) so fantastic. However for the next few months until this, Moderna and others (Jannsen is a biggy - 1 shot) all the heavy lifting will still have to be done by Pfizer and AZ.

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How stupid do you have to be to claim that money we payed into the EU as an oblgation of our membership was not thus EU money, but still our money merely  "redirected"? That this comes from the distorted brain of someone who laughably claims to be an "economist" makes it even more contemptible. It's on a par with your employer claiming the money she is obliged to pay to you for your labour is not your money at all but hers just redirected. Cretinous almost beyond belief.

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

I know you don't like to admit it but we really should be proud.  We are tops in biotech and this has been acknowledged for a few years and now we have absolute proof that we are a world leader which augurs well for our independent future.

We are or I am at least. People thought I was mad in March when I send there would be a U.K. vaccine by the end of the year.

Every time I put something up celebrating our success all you say is your data is rubbish and use it to slag off other Nations. Why don’t you celebrate our achievements as opposed to concentrating on others that are not doing so well.

I am off now to help with the National effort.

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22 hours ago, paul moy said:

We are educated, intelligent and responsible for our own decision-making and the government places trust in us, as we are not a nanny- state or dictatorship. We all had adequate information with which to base a decision on before xmas, and the sensible majority decided not to meet up.

These tragic people made their own clearly wrong decision but would have weighed up the risks and do not want to accept any personal culpability.   Very sad, but HMG did not make the decision for them so are not culpable in any way.

Surely you can't believe you own words after reading this. should we see the current Government actions in this light? A catch all devils charter. Dep, of Health and social CARE? really? the Food Standards Authority? These are the powers of a dictatorship Paul, get a grip of reality.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0188/200188.pdf

Authorities to be capable of authorising criminal conduct (1) Section 30 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000…

C1 – The Serious Fraud Office; The intelligence services
D1 – Any of the intelligence services; The armed forces
E1 – Any of Her Majesty’s forces; Revenue and Customs
F1 – Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; Government departments

Authorities to be capable of authorising criminal conduct (1) Section 30 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000…

C1 – The Serious Fraud Office; The intelligence services
D1 – Any of the intelligence services; The armed forces
E1 – Any of Her Majesty’s forces; Revenue and Customs
F1 – Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; Government departments
G1 – The Department of Health and Social Care.
H1 – The Home Office.
I1 – The Ministry of Justice; Other bodies
J1 – The Competition and Markets Authority.
K1 – The Environment Agency.
L1 – The Financial Conduct Authority.
M1 – The Food Standards Agency.
N1 – The Gambling Commission.

G1 – The Department of Health and Social Care.
H1 – The Home Office.
I1 – The Ministry of Justice; Other bodies
J1 – The Competition and Markets Authority.
K1 – The Environment Agency.
L1 – The Financial Conduct Authority.
M1 – The Food Standards Agency.
N1 – The Gambling Commission.

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This is an important thread/article. Luckily most of the conspiracy theorists have disappeared but if there are STILL some with doubts of how serious this is please read.

 

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EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."

 

 

Seems we are only a third country when it suits them

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44 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Guys, Can we all get past this jingoistic crap on the vaccines.

Time for some statesmanship else we will ALL lose.

I see today and yesterday AZ legal position appears to be unwinding as we speak and the EU has also made very clear what their 'suspicions' are. It's notable in that regard that Johnson has refrained from saying we won't share 'our' supplies. Somebody has given him some good advice 😉 . I'd really hoped that all this would of been sorted out of public gaze but I guess it got wrapped up in a fading union jack.

As to Novavax, excellent news all round especially on the SA variant. Going to be manufactured all over the world and many sites in the EU too (Novax's own facility in Prague is a 1Bn/does a year site) so fantastic. However for the next few months until this, Moderna and others (Jannsen is a biggy - 1 shot) all the heavy lifting will still have to be done by Pfizer and AZ.

Being honest YF the jingoistic rhetoric and lack of statesmanship I'm seeing is all from the EU, with a measured response from the UK, basically trying to stay out of an embarrassing spat between the EU and a major pharma company.  I've not seen anything to show that AZ's legal position is unwinding, just the EU continuing to try to snipe away by briefing the press against AZ, nothing to actually back this up.

 

Given the EU has still not approved the AZ vaccine (although everyone seems sure it will happen today - if it was so definite why couldn't the do it sooner ?) it still looks to me like the EU is flailing away at this as a distraction from how embarrassingly behind the EU is on its vaccine programme.

 

I really love the fact that the Oxford/AZ vaccine is being produced on a vast scale in India to be made available to poorer countries on a not-for profit basis.  Rich countries have a responsibility to put a lot of resources in to sort out their own vaccine position ASAP and allow vaccines to get to poorer countries too.  The EU is singularly failing at the moment.

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This vaccine supply issue is really bringing out the worst and yet it is the absolute key to everyone's strategy (apart from Sweden maybe, anyone looking at how they are doing in wave 2, for me its out of sight out of mind I guess).  Whats worse is its a squabble between the richest nations and companies in the world whilst the rest die in unknown but likely incredibly high numbers with no prospect of relief in anything like the near future. I really do hope that this is a disease that really does prey on western diets and lifestyles. 

Incidentally, If a post contains multiple references to the EU but not one mention of covid, coronavirus, vaccine, contact tracing, disease, lockdown or health can we agree it belongs elsewhere?

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Guys, Can we all get past this jingoistic crap on the vaccines.

Time for some statesmanship else we will ALL lose.

I see today and yesterday AZ legal position appears to be unwinding as we speak and the EU has also made very clear what their 'suspicions' are. It's notable in that regard that Johnson has refrained from saying we won't share 'our' supplies. Somebody has given him some good advice 😉 . I'd really hoped that all this would of been sorted out of public gaze but I guess it got wrapped up in a fading union jack.

As to Novavax, excellent news all round especially on the SA variant. Going to be manufactured all over the world and many sites in the EU too (Novax's own facility in Prague is a 1Bn/does a year site) so fantastic. However for the next few months until this, Moderna and others (Jannsen is a biggy - 1 shot) all the heavy lifting will still have to be done by Pfizer and AZ.

What are your thoughts suggesting the AZ legal position is unwinding YF?

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3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

What are your thoughts suggesting the AZ legal position is unwinding YF?

Simply that they have two conflicting contracts - and if as the EU insists (the EU contract I note are now largely published at EU insistence - Belgian law - the lawyers can scrutinize but the EU quite clearly believes what it says) and if it does identify UK sources as manufacturing hubs (for the EU) for this contract then I don't see legally where there is much argument about having to compromise both. Share.

However, despite the contracts what will absolutely nail it for public opinion in the EU is if the EU  can show that some EU AZ stocks were used to supplement UK ones as we ramped up. Low early yields were not zero yields!  That was actually widely reported in the press several weeks ago in passing without angst when we authorized and they hadn't. "Early batches were from NL, Belgium etc". I can understand that decision if that's what happened - get it to where it could be used asap (all assuming the EU yield issue was a short term issue). Then again we do pay about twice as much don't we (45 % discount to EU reported)?

As they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This may be just that what has happened here but is why I had hoped it could be sorted out of public gaze between friends. S h i t happens.

Statesmanship needed else I fear many will be worrying about their second Pfizer jab. Vaccine nationalism does indeed work both ways.

I hope I'm wrong.

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2 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

That was our proud reputation.  It was never entirely deserved, and Brexit has given it a severe dent.  Many foreigners find Brexit utterly baffling because to them it's so out of character.  Just not British.  They'd never seen the ugly side before.

Once a reputation is lost it's nigh on impossible to get it back.  Known as the Ratner Effect.

 

Our reputation has taken massive strides forward while others have taken steps backwards (namely France and Germany) since January 1st and many countries will now wish to follow in our footsteps imo.

Edited by paul moy
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