Corona Virus main thread

[Indy 3,283]

2 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we shouldn't, just not to get too carried away by the hype issuing from high places.  The only alternative I can see is so-called herd immunity, which would eventually happen of its own accord but would probably take a lot longer.

Herd immunity only works if the body develops long term immunity to the virus and it looks like it doesn’t, 5 months is being said, so like the flu an annual vaccine is probably the way forwards.

As for those with allergies, consider that 80,000 excess deaths this year mainly caused by Covid related issues, I’m sure even if a 100 people died from allergies, though not one has died yet from what has been released it’s far better in my book.

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

Herd immunity only works if the body develops long term immunity to the virus and it looks like it doesn’t, 5 months is being said, so like the flu an annual vaccine is probably the way forwards.

We don’t know the answer to that one Indy, five months is being quoted because the paper released today was based on data collected in a five month period between June and November last year, so it probably will be longer but not proven.

[benchwarmer 624]

23 minutes ago, Indy said:

How many times do we need to say that’s paul is talking out his ****. Stage three included all age groups in small numbers, as I posted the link weeks back, large numbers will always have some people with allergies Christ it’s the same for paracetamol to cold medicines.

It’s people like Paul who are Trumpists, make their minds up based on limited ****e and then spins total crap without any consideration he’s ever wrong!

I often disagree strongly with Paul and don't like his politics so far as I know them, but it sounds as though you're using character assassination to avoid the issue. 

The issue is that we're talking about covid, where the overwhelming number of people who die or are seriously ill are elderly.  Therefore the lack of data concerning the vaccine's efficacy in older people (which I agree is a problem with clinical trials in general) is a particular drawback in this specific instance.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by benchwarmer

[benchwarmer 624]

14 minutes ago, Indy said:

Herd immunity only works if the body develops long term immunity to the virus and it looks like it doesn’t, 5 months is being said, so like the flu an annual vaccine is probably the way forwards.

 

Five months minimum is what's actually been said.  The virus hasn't been around long enough to be more specific at this stage.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by benchwarmer

[Indy 3,283]

5 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Five months minimum is what's actually been said.  The virus hasn't been around long enough to be more specific at this stage.  

Exactly till there’s more information we should accept the science behind this not a few people who are using this for self awareness to get 5 minutes of fame. Paul is a dangerous breed who like Brexit get swept into believing rather than look at the overall picture. It’s not one vaccine developed its on global scales and all vaccines based on trusted techniques.

It’s challenging enough to get the vaccine at present and with the overwhelming death rate surely getting the old and vulnerable vaccinated is a must not a nice to have!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we shouldn't, just not to get too carried away by the hype issuing from high places.  The only alternative I can see is so-called herd immunity, which would eventually happen of its own accord but would probably take a lot longer.

I think anyone who assumes the vaccine is a 100% cure is deluded.

However, if it takes the strain off the NHS then it is a bonus. And following the trials, we have to believe it will provide greater resistance for those without underlying health problems.

Science cannot agree about the virus. So to listen to one point of view is dangerous. 

And each new variant is accompanied by the phrase should be covered by the vaccine rather than will.

[king canary 7,580]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Very pertinent post TJ, there was a particular problem locally with a poultry processing plant, mentioning no names, where it became very difficult to control and had a significant impact on local infection figures. Contact tracing was very difficult due to failure to cooperate and importantly the way low paid workers were housed in communal houses, HMO's, in close contact, and also moved between processing plants was a significant driver of infection.

I'm currently self isolating and it isn't easy even though we've got a pretty good set up for it- jobs we can do from home, friends to shop for us, flexible arrangements with work so we can look after our son. Test and trace have called every couple of days to check we're still isolating. Overall it has been **** but manageable. I can only imagine how hard it is for people with less secure income, less sympathetic workplaces or living in flats/shared spaces.

[Indy 3,283]

14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think anyone who assumes the vaccine is a 100% cure is deluded.

However, if it takes the strain off the NHS then it is a bonus. And following the trials, we have to believe it will provide greater resistance for those without underlying health problems.

Science cannot agree about the virus. So to listen to one point of view is dangerous. 

And each new variant is accompanied by the phrase should be covered by the vaccine rather than will.

Absolutely KG, even flu jabs are only around 50% but still enough to control the flu virus each, but still the average death from flu is 10,000 a year some years a lot higher, this year very low as most are Covid related.

The science behind the vaccine says that the new strains are still the same basic type and the vaccines should be effective, of course until it’s fully tested on any new strain it cannot be said with any assurance.

We’re now seeing massive impacts on economy from Brexit, it’s all well and good saying economy doesn’t matter during this epidemic, but it does, as hell of a lot more people potentially will develop illnesses through stress or other factors. Control of everything and managing a way out is the only thing to focus on. Vaccinate the vulnerable front line and teachers, get things back on track with a program of vaccinations and herd immunity for the younger less vulnerable groups.

Even with the new variant of Covid there’s still 90% odd percent hospitalised who are 65 or older. Get these out of the NHS system and it’s all very manageable, isn’t that what we all want? Any new varieties of Covid which need a vaccine tweak have already been talked about and we’re in a far better position to combat this.

Get this lockdown right, stop the pressure on the NHS, immunise those at most risk and get back to a form of normality, then manage Covid. That’s about it!

Edited January 14, 2021 by Indy

[benchwarmer 624]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think anyone who assumes the vaccine is a 100% cure is deluded.

However, if it takes the strain off the NHS then it is a bonus. And following the trials, we have to believe it will provide greater resistance for those without underlying health problems.

Science cannot agree about the virus. So to listen to one point of view is dangerous. 

And each new variant is accompanied by the phrase should be covered by the vaccine rather than will.

I agree wholeheartedly.  Eradicating the virus completely probably isn't an option because of its ability to mutate, but if a vaccine does enough to make it less lethal it's well worthwhile. 

However, mutation is more likely when a virus encounters resistance to infection, including resistance provided by vaccines.  So regular covid vaccination could soon become a reality, to the great joy and delight of the drug companies!  Whether covid will last as long as variants of H1N1 which caused the 1918 flu pandemic and are still around today, only time will tell.

Edited January 14, 2021 by benchwarmer

[Van wink 2,994]

47 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm currently self isolating and it isn't easy even though we've got a pretty good set up for it- jobs we can do from home, friends to shop for us, flexible arrangements with work so we can look after our son. Test and trace have called every couple of days to check we're still isolating. Overall it has been **** but manageable. I can only imagine how hard it is for people with less secure income, less sympathetic workplaces or living in flats/shared spaces.

Yeh I can fully understand that, the virus is bringing into clear focus the health (and other ) inequalities that exist within society. Its sometimes too easy for us to judge others when in reality we have very little understanding of their lives. The people I was referring to were deliberately ( allegedly ) moved between HMOs to avoid being tracked and took the virus with them. A different world existing under our noses.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Van wink

[horsefly 4,287]

To settle one dispute, I took part in the Novavax vaccine trial at the Quadram Institue (N and N) precisely because they advertised for older people (over 50 and up to 84 years) to volunteer.

Edited January 14, 2021 by horsefly

[Barbe bleu 814]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

To settle one dispute, I took part in the Novavax vaccine trial at the Quadram Institue (N and N) precisely because they advertised for older people (over 50) to volunteer.

50 doesn't constitute 'older people' !

Sure the Olympic sprint finals is a bit unlikely but its still a peak time.  Didn't George foreman win the heavy weight world title at 50 plus?

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

To settle one dispute, I took part in the Novavax vaccine trial at the Quadram Institue (N and N) precisely because they advertised for older people (over 50 and up to 84 years) to volunteer.

Nice one, reading the trial data on that it looked like 25% of participants were over 65.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

50 doesn't constitute 'older people' !

Sure the Olympic sprint finals is a bit unlikely but its still a peak time.  Didn't George foreman win the heavy weight world title at 50 plus?

50 is the new 40 @Barbe bleu 😂

[Herman 9,717]

29 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

50 is the new 40 @Barbe bleu 😂

I hope so. 9 months to go. 🥴

[ricardo 7,347]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

I hope so. 9 months to go. 🥴

You're only a boy yet.

Lots more seasons for you Hermy.👍

[SwindonCanary 455]

It looks as though the current lockdown restrictions working. We all just need to keep on following them - that includes politicians , sportsmen and celebrities.

[Van wink 2,994]

Looking more and more likely that we have passed the peak, local figures tentatively encouraging🤞

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Looking more and more likely that we have passed the peak, local figures tentatively encouraging🤞

It was mentioned yesterday but I assume we have to see a drop over a week, as in Spring, to confirm it.

Everything crossed, not just for me, we get our pensions but for those waiting for hospital appointments etc., as well as pubs and restaurants.

[paul moy 235]

9 hours ago, Aggy said:

For my own understanding of what your point is...

I think you’re saying that all vaccines are the same and aren’t generally tested widely on unhealthy or elderly people. 

In which case, every vaccine that “comes to market” carries a risk to old and unwell people.

You are then arguing that the risk to old and unwell people you refer to means nobody should have the vaccine.

In which case we’ll never know if it’s safe and nobody should ever take it.

In which case there was no point developing the vaccine.

You can apply that to every new vaccine. So we may as well stop developing any new ones.

 Is that what you’re saying?

No, I never said elderly should not take the jab, but was simply explaining why the elderly may have reactions and why these symptoms have not come up in trials.  The jab was not tested on the elderly so rollout initially was slower to allow for those being vaccinated to be monitored. Commonsense.

I have repeated this fact many times over the past few weeks and still people do not understand pure commonsense.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by paul moy

[paul moy 235]

8 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

However much we debate the pros and cons the simple fact is we have to go with the vaccine. What alternative is there?

I have never said otherwise......  😂

[paul moy 235]

8 hours ago, Indy said:

How many times do we need to say that’s paul is talking out his ****. Stage three included all age groups in small numbers, as I posted the link weeks back, large numbers will always have some people with allergies Christ it’s the same for paracetamol to cold medicines.

It’s people like Paul who are Trumpists, make their minds up based on limited ****e and then spins total crap without any consideration he’s ever wrong!

My god you are stupid....... 😂

and if I am wrong debate it like an adult rather than going for the man like a childish troll ..........😝

Edited January 14, 2021 by paul moy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Talking of stupid, anyone seen the video on the BBC of the mass snowball fight in a park in Leeds?

Aye up lad, Arm boogered if ar can tbreath

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Talking of stupid, anyone seen the video on the BBC of the mass snowball fight in a park in Leeds?

Aye up lad, Arm boogered if ar can tbreath

Yup, students again.... Quelle surprise !!

[Van wink 2,994]

19 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It was mentioned yesterday but I assume we have to see a drop over a week, as in Spring, to confirm it.

Everything crossed, not just for me, we get our pensions but for those waiting for hospital appointments etc., as well as pubs and restaurants.

Yep agreed KG. The Zoe App had been pegging well over 60000 cases a day but it is now dropping back, it’s showing c53000 today. This app has tended to shadow the ONS random survey pretty consistently throughout  the pandemic so promising at least. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Van wink

[ricardo 7,347]

The numbers are very late tonight, I hope its not a bad sign.

[paul moy 235]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yep agreed KG. The Zoe App had been pegging well over 60000 cases a day but it is now dropping back, it’s showing c53000 today. This app has tended to shadow the ONS random survey pretty consistently thought the pandemic so promising at least. 

Due to a weather  emergency just announced in Yorkshire,  much testing  today was not done so maybe we should hold fire before drawing conclusions.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1384227/UK-snow-yorkshire-NHS-ambulance-service-major-incident-Covid-999-call-coronavirus-latest

 

[paul moy 235]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The numbers are very late tonight, I hope its not a bad sign.

just mentioned reason in previous post

Edited January 14, 2021 by paul moy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Due to a processing issue with deaths data the #COVID19 Dashboard update is delayed today. 48,682 new COVID-19 positive cases have been reported today across the UK.

That is yet another large drop today. Deaths may not drop yet I expect.

Edited January 14, 2021 by keelansgrandad

[Essjayess 307]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Due to a processing issue with deaths data the #COVID19 Dashboard update is delayed today. 48,682 new COVID-19 positive cases have been reported today across the UK.

That is yet another large drop today. Deaths may not drop yet I expect.

1,246 deaths for today, bad yes but not any worse than the last few days.