Corona Virus main thread

[sonyc 5,492]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Getting it to the hubs in the first place, and organising the appointments and records too.

Perhaps more moving parts will be added as the programme matures. 

I must confess I always thought pharmacies would be used and GPs. Yet I keep reading about supermarket car parks!

[dj11 377]

Zahawi has obviously spent his time in hiding to work out what to say so that it’s not his fault when it goes wrong. 
‘It is an ambitious plan. The prime minister is right to set an ambitious target. The NHS has a very clear plan and I am confident that we can meet it," he told BBC Breakfast.

He just needed to change we can meet it, for they can meet it, and he would have covered hands and space. 

[Well b back 3,190]

14 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I meant getting the vaccine to so many sites rather than a supply issue WBB. Presumably the government wants fewer vaccination hubs? Only guessing.

I think @dj11 post says it all Sonyc.

I looked on the Jenner website there is nothing related on there, but they are reminding the public ( you would have thought a job for the government ) that it takes 2 to 3 weeks to begin to get sufficient immunity as they are concerned at the messages being sent.

[Well b back 3,190]

11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vaccine-covid-lockdown-easing-plan-b1783068.html

At least the vaccine Minister has spoken this morning. First we have heard from him? He is non-committal

The invisible man puts his cloak on

[Well b back 3,190]

17 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Clearly you are just trolling.  Have a good day.......  😎

Read it Mogg broke COVID rules you supported it. 
Do you think it was a member of the public ?

[Bill 1,788]

vaccines minister

vaccine........... a little ****

how apt

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I think @dj11 post says it all Sonyc.

I looked on the Jenner website there is nothing related on there, but they are reminding the public ( you would have thought a job for the government ) that it takes 2 to 3 weeks to begin to get sufficient immunity as they are concerned at the messages being sent.

Indeed. I reckon that's the kind of message pharmacists would give regularly, even booking folk back in for their second. Local pharmacies are very important and I believe very  trusted. We have two and they are the mainstay of the village. Got my flu jab there. 

[sonyc 5,492]

7 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Read it Mogg broke COVID rules you supported it. 
Do you think it was a member of the public ?

Perhaps he needs to have the message given more directly?😅

 

[Well b back 3,190]

39 minutes ago, Yellowfuture said:

There is a risk that everyone is jumping on little snippets of news which may not prove to be correct. 
Zahawi ( the pimpernel ) said this morning that they (pharmacies) would be involved.

Hi Yellow

@sonyc @dj11 

Pharmacies are on Radio 5 now. They are saying the government have not approached them and they can do 1.3 million vaccinations a week, free of charge. As it stands they have been told they will not be involved ?. Who to believe ? 

[Indy 3,283]

52 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Really disappointed to read that pharmacies (11400 of them in the UK) have been snubbed by the government in administering the vaccine. They were desperate to do the Oxford vaccine and could have provided over a million a week (already they do millions of flu jabs a year of course). You might think pharmacies would have just the local reputation that is important. Presumably a logistics issue? Or own goal?

I can’t believe this, absolutely diabolical, the key is to get as many vaccinations done and these would relieve pressure on hospitals doing vaccinations, should have been front line vaccine centres.

[sonyc 5,492]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hi Yellow

@sonyc @dj11 

Pharmacies are on Radio 5 now. They are saying the government have not approached them and they can do 1.3 million vaccinations a week, free of charge. As it stands they have been told they will not be involved ?. Who to believe ? 

Perhaps it will come later (in their 'plan'?) ...as @Yellowfuture indicates, many stories are unfolding. Or perhaps this is what happens in the absence of a communicated and clear messaging. My source for pharmacies was from The Week and the chief for the pharmacy group nationally (name escapes me atm)

Edited January 6, 2021 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,190]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

I can’t believe this, absolutely diabolical, the key is to get as many vaccinations done and these would relieve pressure on hospitals doing vaccinations, should have been front line vaccine centres.

They normally look at the pink un threads for some policy. On a different thread we have clearly shown how the Oxford vaccine can be transported. It maybe that they are using them who knows, they maybe, but haven’t told them yet ?

[Well b back 3,190]

Just now, sonyc said:

Perhaps it will come later (in their 'plan'?) ...as @Yellowfuture indicates, many stories are unfolding. Or perhaps this is what happens in the absence of a communicated message. My source for pharmacies was from The Week and the chief for the pharmacy group nationally (name escapes me atm)

That’s who’s on radio 5 rubbishing that they have had a reply to their offer.

[Yellowfuture 71]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hi Yellow

@sonyc @dj11 

Pharmacies are on Radio 5 now. They are saying the government have not approached them and they can do 1.3 million vaccinations a week, free of charge. As it stands they have been told they will not be involved ?. Who to believe ? 

Zahawi on radio 4 “gave the impression” which of course is the style, that the larger pharmacies are involved and that in time the smaller ones will be also. That seemed sensible as a strategy,  I have no particular knowledge on this but again got the impression that the pharmacy people being spoken to on the radio were representatives of the smaller independents rather than the whole sector. I may of course be completely wrong 😁

[sonyc 5,492]

8 minutes ago, Indy said:

I can’t believe this, absolutely diabolical, the key is to get as many vaccinations done and these would relieve pressure on hospitals doing vaccinations, should have been front line vaccine centres.

It is most curious Indy. Political or simply an administration issue? Pharmacies are the most obvious places with GP surgeries. Perhaps it will be like the Test and Trace service, administered nationally and through a big contract?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised now I think about this but it is nevertheless unexpected as I'd always made an assumption before...one of those assumptions I didn't think was even a stupid one to make.

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, Yellowfuture said:

Zahawi on radio 4 “gave the impression” which of course is the style, that the larger pharmacies are involved and that in time the smaller ones will be also. That seemed sensible as a strategy,  I have no particular knowledge on this but again got the impression that the pharmacy people being spoken to on the radio were representatives of the smaller independents rather than the whole sector. I may of course be completely wrong 😁

Cheers Yellowfuture. That makes a lot more sense. A lot of pharmacies are from smaller groups except the likes of Lloyds (still going?), Boots etc

Edited January 6, 2021 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,190]

2 minutes ago, Yellowfuture said:

Zahawi on radio 4 “gave the impression” which of course is the style, that the larger pharmacies are involved and that in time the smaller ones will be also. That seemed sensible as a strategy,  I have no particular knowledge on this but again got the impression that the pharmacy people being spoken to on the radio were representatives of the smaller independents rather than the whole sector. I may of course be completely wrong 😁

Thanks

I am not in anyway questioning what you said and of course likewise I maybe wrong, or it maybe political. Cant do anything at the moment but will look for links later if that helps.

[Indy 3,283]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

It is most curious Indy. Political or simply an administration issue? Pharmacies are the most obvious places with GP surgeries. Perhaps it will be like the Test and Trace service, administered nationally and through a big contract?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised now I think about this but it is nevertheless unexpected as I'd always made an assumption before...one of those assumptions I didn't think was even a stupid one to make.

I’m at a loss, I would have thought if you wanted to vaccinate the same groups as flu, the GP surgeries and pharmacy will have all the notes on the vulnerable and the knowledge to contact organise each person as they did the flu jabs.

I can understand the mass vaccination centres for large conurbations but it just appears that we have our very own Stalin in charge! Tell the population what they want to hear to keep control but behind the scenes ensure your close friends are given key roles even if they are not fit for purpose!

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

I’m at a loss, I would have thought if you wanted to vaccinate the same groups as flu, the GP surgeries and pharmacy will have all the notes on the vulnerable and the knowledge to contact organise each person as they did the flu jabs.

I can understand the mass vaccination centres for large conurbations but it just appears that we have our very own Stalin in charge! Tell the population what they want to hear to keep control but behind the scenes ensure your close friends are given key roles even if they are not fit for purpose!

Spot on about local records and knowledge. Same for their powers of organisation.

[sonyc 5,492]

13 hours ago, Well b back said:

I vote Tory, I have always voted Tory, if Johnson or his mates have nothing to do with it I may well vote Tory again. My problem is Johnson, he is a clown, nobody respects him, only a few trust him. Not a leader for a Pandemic, not his fault, I accept that’s one thing he couldn’t have realised was about to happen.
 

Just reading the thread back. This is a very admirable honesty Wbb. I have never voted Tory but productively worked with many Tories in my work. We wanted roughly the same outcomes if not the same.

If the current administration was liberal, labour or green (highly unlikely I realise) and the leadership we've experienced was anything like the same, I would be here with exactly the same complaints...and possibly more stridently so, because it would be an assault on what I hold dear.

I can't be bothered simply to post anti-Tory stuff for the sake of it....what's the point? Oh for the days of one nation Toryism in contrast. Just good governance. Never thought I'd write that.

We are in a crisis and that's difficult for any administration across the whole world. Yet there are such a lot of actions taken that feel wrong (to me and many other 'reasonable' folk) and when this is all over there will be a long tail won't there? People will have their own ways of deciding the truth and reconciling everything. 

[Yellowfuture 71]

26 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Cheers Yellowfuture. That makes a lot more sense. A lot of pharmacies are from smaller groups except the likes of Lloyds (still going?), Boots etc

This is the latest I could find on the topic, seems to be a question of size matters. This government isn't too keen on local is it, I can see the imperative when you are rushing to get things done, but why is it a rush when we have so long to prepare?

"Royal Pharmaceutical Society president Sandra Gidley said there were thousands of high street pharmacies who were "ready, willing and able" to assist in the rollout of the programme, but were being excluded because they had to be able to guarantee they could deliver at least 950 doses per day.

Mr Zahawi insisted "every sector will play a part in this", and specifically mentioned pharmacies, saying that after hospitals and GPs surgeries, "the community pharmacies and the independent pharmacy sector [will play a role] as well". 

[Barbe bleu 814]

I would imagine that there is already quite a logistical challenge in getting the vaccine to 1000 sites, getting the priority groups to these sites in a quick and orderly fashion and, of course in administering staff, centres, records and patients 

I well imagine that the planners did think about hyper local networks but decided to go with a sub-regional approach for a reason. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[dj11 377]

I spoke to a friend who is a vaccinator at a London hospital. Pfizer were very strict on how it should be handled, stored and administered. They are not even allowed to know the location of the main storage area in the hospital, as they are really concerned it may be stolen. They had all their PPE stolen during the pandemic. Despite his experience, it took him a week to become a vaccinator. The good news is, the Oxford Astra is as tough as old boots, and he reckons anyone with experience of injections ( pharmacists, vets etc ) could give it. He has written to Hancock, making these suggestions. 
I was really hoping that we would be like a coiled spring and having everything in place for the moment the vaccines were ready. There should have been a competent minister in charge from August/September, after all, if Pinkun posters were aware it was coming, surely the government should have had an inkling?

I do not hide my feelings on the ineptitude and corruption of this government, but I really, really wanted them to be world beating ( or at least professional)in their roll out of the vaccine programme. So far, I am very disappointed. 
 

I feel like shouting from the rooftops ‘Get a f...ing grip. 

[Indy 3,283]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

I would imagine that there is already quite a logistical challenge in getting the vaccine to 1000 sites, getting the priority groups to these sites in a quick and orderly fashion and, of course in administering staff, centres, records and patients 

I well imagine that the planners did think about hyper local networks but decided to go with a sub-regional approach for a reason.

 

Yes certainly is a challenge that’s why I can’t understand why not use the Flu vaccine logistics, as above they have the records, have the distribution sources as per flu vaccines and have proved to be organised as the flu canines have already been done to the same vulnerable groups.

But no doubt it’s a challenge.

[Barbe bleu 814]

11 minutes ago, Indy said:

Yes certainly is a challenge that’s why I can’t understand why not use the Flu vaccine logistics, as above they have the records, have the distribution sources as per flu vaccines and have proved to be organised as the flu canines have already been done to the same vulnerable groups.

But no doubt it’s a challenge.

The existing flu distribution network got the vaccine to 77% of over 65s (8 million plus) in the 3 months ending 30 november 2020 and 44% of the under 65s in risk categories. 

 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/seasonal-flu-vaccine-uptake-in-gp-patients-monthly-data-2020-to-2021

These are record figures (albeit not at peak time for medical services) but are we really going to be happy with these results for covid?

And thats before you factor in the need to monitor for complications in what are entirely new vaccines, the difficulties in storing the vaccine (especially pfizer) and the need to invite people back for round two at some point

And of course how do you ensure equitable and instant distribution to tens of thousands of sites as soon as a batch is released.

I can see this going local  when we have moved away from priority groups but not before I doubt

 

[Indy 3,283]

23 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The existing flu distribution network got the vaccine to 77% of over 65s (8 million plus) in the 3 months ending 30 november 2020 and 44% of the under 65s in risk categories. 

 https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/seasonal-flu-vaccine-uptake-in-gp-patients-monthly-data-2020-to-2021

These are record figures (albeit not at peak time for medical services) but are we really going to be happy with these results for covid?

And thats before you factor in the need to monitor for complications in what are entirely new vaccines, the difficulties in storing the vaccine (especially pfizer) and the need to invite people back for round two at some point

And of course how do you ensure equitable and instant distribution to tens of thousands of sites as soon as a batch is released.

I can see this going local  when we have moved away from priority groups but not before I doubt

 

Yes but that’s 77% who would be covered, more will no doubt be through hospitals and other arrangements, but yes it’s certainly an already set up logistical way forwards! Of course more would need to be done alongside but why not use what’s in place and known to work?

Edited January 6, 2021 by Indy

[sonyc 5,492]

21 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I can see this going local  when we have moved away from priority groups but not before I doubt

Fair point.

77% sounds not bad though

[Barbe bleu 814]

19 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Fair point.

77% sounds not bad though

Absolutely, 77% in 3 months sounds fantastic. 

I checked on the years before and it was 72% for the full season (1sep to 29 feb)  in the two previous years and historically lower. So whoever is in  charge this year needs a pat on the back for sure.

But I would still be disappointed if we were only at 77% for over 65s come Easter for the main event.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 05/01/2021 at 12:44, Rock The Boat said:

Let's hope you get a good response

response? the BBC? fat chance,

[paul moy 235]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

I’m at a loss, I would have thought if you wanted to vaccinate the same groups as flu, the GP surgeries and pharmacy will have all the notes on the vulnerable and the knowledge to contact organise each person as they did the flu jabs.

I can understand the mass vaccination centres for large conurbations but it just appears that we have our very own Stalin in charge! Tell the population what they want to hear to keep control but behind the scenes ensure your close friends are given key roles even if they are not fit for purpose!

It will happen but the supply is not there at the moment.........😎