Corona Virus main thread

[horsefly 4,287]

2 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

 

I can see why Pfizer got rid of him. A very unscientific failure to consider all the variables affecting the figures (for example, the decline in deaths from diseases as a result of lockdown and social distancing etc)

[Bagster 101]

 

[Bagster 101]

From the British medical journal

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

[Herman 9,717]

31 minutes ago, Bagster said:

From the British medical journal

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Which is what some have been saying. 

[horsefly 4,287]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Which is what some have been saying. 

Absolutely!

Indeed, we can all agree that politicians and corporate powers are capable of manipulating scientific facts to serve their individual interests. However, that doesn't imply that they are all corrupt. Frankly I will listen to my partner working on the Covid front line and all her medical colleagues around the world who speak with one voice that there is a virus called Covid-19 and it is killing multiple thousands of people here and elsewhere.

Edited November 17, 2020 by horsefly

[Van wink 2,994]

32 minutes ago, Herman said:

Which is what some have been saying. 

No doubt there has been cronyism at play in our response, but non of the article supports the alleged deep conspiracy theories that a few try to use to dismiss the virus.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

On 13/03/2020 at 10:35, keelansgrandad said:

If we in this world, cannot cope with isolation for a month then the world hasn't progressed much.

Just looking absent-mindedly at the first page of this thread when this post from KG leapt out at me. Could you image 8 months later that lots of us would still be working from home, effectively isolated within our own 4 walls with only our nearest and dearest for company? It's amazing the murder rate hasn't shot up...

[horsefly 4,287]

2 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Just looking absent-mindedly at the first page of this thread when this post from KG leapt out at me. Could you image 8 months later that lots of us would still be working from home, effectively isolated within our own 4 walls with only our nearest and dearest for company? It's amazing the murder rate hasn't shot up...

It has but all those nasty medical conspirators are recording them as Covid-19 deaths.

Edited November 17, 2020 by horsefly

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

I can see why Pfizer got rid of him. A very unscientific failure to consider all the variables affecting the figures (for example, the decline in deaths from diseases as a result of lockdown and social distancing etc)

Eh? Source for that claim. 

Everybody else is saying deaths have increased due to lockdown. Untreated new cancer, untreated new heart conditions, increased suicides etc. 

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Absolutely!

Indeed, we can all agree that politicians and corporate powers are capable of manipulating scientific facts to serve their individual interests. However, that doesn't imply that they are all corrupt. Frankly I will listen to my partner working on the Covid front line and all her medical colleagues around the world who speak with one voice that there is a virus called Covid-19 and it is killing multiple thousands of people here and elsewhere.

The medical profession around the world are far from speaking with one voice and the level of informed dissent increases by the day. Odd that you trust this government on Covid but distrust them on everything else. 

[horsefly 4,287]

I wonder why all the conspiracy theorists are no longer quoting the example of Sweden as proof of their claims. Oh! I know why:

https://extra.ie/2020/11/16/news/world-news/sweden-introduces-tighter-covid-19-restrictions

"Addressing the people of Sweden last week, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven warned about the gravity of the situation facing the Scandinavian country, stating: ‘We are facing a situation that could turn black as night."

"Sweden has introduced tighter COVID-19 restrictions for the first time as concerns mount that the country’s pandemic limitation strategy may have failed."

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

50 minutes ago, Van wink said:

No doubt there has been cronyism at play in our response, but non of the article supports the alleged deep conspiracy theories that a few try to use to dismiss the virus.

 

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I wonder why all the conspiracy theorists are no longer quoting the example of Sweden as proof of their claims. Oh! I know why:

https://extra.ie/2020/11/16/news/world-news/sweden-introduces-tighter-covid-19-restrictions

"Addressing the people of Sweden last week, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven warned about the gravity of the situation facing the Scandinavian country, stating: ‘We are facing a situation that could turn black as night."

"Sweden has introduced tighter COVID-19 restrictions for the first time as concerns mount that the country’s pandemic limitation strategy may have failed."

 

This is the root of my angst with the 'conspiracy' theorists or virus belittlers or herd immunity 'types'. (For the record Sweden was never on a true herd immunity setting but on lighter more voluntary lockdown approach which when compared to its neighbours appears to of failed.)

They generally move from one debunked 'excuse' to the next to bolster their 'no-lockdown' or we don't care, it isn't or won't be us  approach. They cherry pick poorly understood facts.

[sonyc 5,492]

54 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

 

This is the root of my angst with the 'conspiracy' theorists or virus belittlers or herd immunity 'types'. (For the record Sweden was never on a true herd immunity setting but on lighter more voluntary lockdown approach which when compared to its neighbours appears to of failed.)

They generally move from one debunked 'excuse' to the next to bolster their 'no-lockdown' or we don't care, it isn't or won't be us  approach. They cherry pick poorly understood facts.

Interesting short programme on Scandinavian history this morning (R4) and how Sweden's approach to many things in life (politics, international relations, culture etc) is "not too little, not too much". Their immediate response to the pandemic in this context makes sense. It is an approach that evokes trust.

To now state they sense they "may have failed" (itself a very honest assessment) may even provide a level of honesty that encourages trust, or certainly mitigates against strong criticism. Such a big difference in our own government who only seem to champion themselves (maybe here I'm not very English myself because I dislike such bravado).

Agree on your point about the belittling of Coronavirus.

 

Footnote:

On a more encouraging sign where I am, we have seen a 3500 drop in numbers since yesterday.

Edited November 17, 2020 by sonyc

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

Here’s a ‘conspiracy’ theory, bottom video from sky news 

 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

And another 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Teemu’s right foot

[Herman 9,717]

2 hours ago, Van wink said:

No doubt there has been cronyism at play in our response, but non of the article supports the alleged deep conspiracy theories that a few try to use to dismiss the virus.

I don't disagree and I'm not sure why Bagster posted it. It doesn't prove he is right it simply proves that there is a virus AND corruption. 

[horsefly 4,287]

27 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Here’s a ‘conspiracy’ theory, bottom video from sky news 

 

Jesus! 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Just looking absent-mindedly at the first page of this thread when this post from KG leapt out at me. Could you image 8 months later that lots of us would still be working from home, effectively isolated within our own 4 walls with only our nearest and dearest for company? It's amazing the murder rate hasn't shot up...

For the last fifteen years, people have been retreating into their homes. From drinking to technology, my home is my castle has never been truer.

And yet so many are now complaining. I spoke to a psychiatrist who is of the opinion that so many claiming depression is jumping on the bandwagon. In fact what they mean is they are bored.

[CANARYKING 634]

3 hours ago, Bagster said:

 

Well that’s cheered me up no end, looks like the whole of 2021 is a washout, no socialising, no football

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Jesus! 

 

Is it really so far fetched though? The world must take action over climate change. Events like this are once in a generation and present opportunities to make change. They haven’t exactly been hiding this reset idea have they? It’s very much out in the open as these videos show. 

[horsefly 4,287]

3 minutes ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

Is it really so far fetched though? The world must take action over climate change. Events like this are once in a generation and present opportunities to make change. They haven’t exactly been hiding this reset idea have they? It’s very much out in the open as these videos show. 

I couldn't agree more that we are presented with an opportunity to deal with issues like climate change and mass world poverty. I seriously hope that we do end up with a fairer society and world. What I find ridiculous is that these noble aims are being portrayed as a road to some Orwellian dictatorship.

[Well b back 3,190]

Let’s hope you are wrong Teemu regards the new vaccines not working, as they are hoping this new technology of vaccines will rid the world of many diseases that have been with us for many years. The same applies to it being readied for future viruses. 
 

[Jools 584]

Afternoon..

Still no symptoms -- Isolation ends Friday 👍

 

Please check my recent post in the 'Reform UK' thread. 

[Teemu’s right foot 53]

30 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I couldn't agree more that we are presented with an opportunity to deal with issues like climate change and mass world poverty. I seriously hope that we do end up with a fairer society and world. What I find ridiculous is that these noble aims are being portrayed as a road to some Orwellian dictatorship.

Yeah

 

30 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I couldn't agree more that we are presented with an opportunity to deal with issues like climate change and mass world poverty. I seriously hope that we do end up with a fairer society and world. What I find ridiculous is that these noble aims are being portrayed as a road to some Orwellian dictatorship.

 Yeah I agree. I honestly believe that this started out about a virus and along the way it’s been seen as an opportunity to bring about real change. At least I’m really hoping that is the case and we do build a more sustainable fairer society. As I said the idea of a reset hasn’t been hidden so hopefully something great can come from this 

[ricardo 7,349]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

 

Footnote:

On a more encouraging sign where I am, we have seen a 3500 drop in numbers since yesterday.

Please desist.

We can't have facts spoiling the argument on here.

[sonyc 5,492]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Please desist.

We can't have facts spoiling the argument on here.

It's the only area in West Yorkshire that has decreased today though according to the local press. We need a decrease across the whole county.

[ricardo 7,349]

every journey begins with a single step😉

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Travel rules have been relaxed for people arriving in England to work on poultry farms to help make sure turkeys are available for Christmas dinners next month.

From today, seasonal workers from abroad can work straight away, during their 14-day quarantine. They will have to still self-isolate from the rest of the public during those two weeks.

To avoid any potential spread of coronavirus, they also have to form "cohorts", or live and work with a group of the same workers during their time in England. They will not be allowed to mix with other employees.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said the new measures will ensure food producers can "keep up with the Christmas demand".

Industry groups had previously warned of turkey shortages without enough skilled workers to process the meat.

😚🙁🤒🤒🤒

I'm not sure a shortage of Turkeys is any different from allowing all shops to open. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by keelansgrandad

[ricardo 7,349]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

I wonder why all the conspiracy theorists are no longer quoting the example of Sweden as proof of their claims. Oh! I know why:

https://extra.ie/2020/11/16/news/world-news/sweden-introduces-tighter-covid-19-restrictions

"Addressing the people of Sweden last week, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven warned about the gravity of the situation facing the Scandinavian country, stating: ‘We are facing a situation that could turn black as night."

"Sweden has introduced tighter COVID-19 restrictions for the first time as concerns mount that the country’s pandemic limitation strategy may have failed."

Lets have a look at the actual data

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

BBC picked up a Good Law project story:

"Go-between paid £21m in taxpayer funds for NHS PPE"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54974373

Earlier this year, as the coronavirus pandemic was spreading rapidly around the world, Florida-based jewellery designer Michael Saiger set up a business to supply PPE to governments.

He used his experience of working with factories in China to land what are described as "a number of lucrative contracts" supplying protective gloves and gowns to the NHS.

Mr Saiger signed up a Spanish businessman, Gabriel Gonzalez Andersson, to help with "procurement, logistics, due diligence, product sourcing and quality control" of the PPE equipment. In effect, Mr Andersson was expected to find a manufacturer for deals that had already been done.

So far the UK's Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) has published contracts with Mr Saiger's company, Saiger LLC, totalling more than £200m. These were awarded without being opened to competition.

But the court documents allege that once the agreements had been signed, Mr Andersson stopped doing any work for Mr Saiger. It's not clear whether Mr Andersson received any of the money for this second batch of deals.