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27 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I was certainly one for being hopeful of some positive change. Yet, we don't seem to have much vision as a country. If we do what is it? Just to be out of Europe? That seems to be the thrust. There needs to be a far greater move towards something the whole country can get behind.

Dreaming as ever. 🤔

The nation had the chance to observe life during lockdown and what it must be like to live in many other countries where freedoms are like hens teeth.

We have no leadership but I really believed we as a people would come together as one. It may hopefully happen. Or start to happen. I await with an open mind.

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8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The nation had the chance to observe life during lockdown and what it must be like to live in many other countries where freedoms are like hens teeth.

We have no leadership but I really believed we as a people would come together as one. It may hopefully happen. Or start to happen. I await with an open mind.

People have come together at a community level. Many good examples of that. I'm sure there are in Cornwall. 

The freedoms / together as a nation theme I still believe was very damaged by Cummings. And it appears he is having a major influence on how the government is behaving since. One day we will get to know a lot more.

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15 minutes ago, sonyc said:

People have come together at a community level. Many good examples of that. I'm sure there are in Cornwall. 

The freedoms / together as a nation theme I still believe was very damaged by Cummings. And it appears he is having a major influence on how the government is behaving since. One day we will get to know a lot more.

Hi sonyc

I know you and Van wink read our other related thread and isn’t amazing how the Oxford and London predictions if he changed those words to be aware were ?. The horrifying thing is what they are predicting now if the government don’t start acting on their latest findings. According to their latest thoughts the first wave is going to be a drop in the ocean. In a couple of weeks time when hospital numbers start to increase big they will be telling us that the virus is just as deadly as it was before, but they should have been doing this 3 weeks ago. There are now 800 in hospital so unless treatments are really working the daily death rate will soon be at 100 a day again.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

I knew people had short memories but it’s been fascinating to watch how quickly something even as horrific as what was happening earlier in the year seems to have been wiped from the consciousness of so many. 

The novelty wore off and when it did we stopped caring.

 

Edited by Barbe bleu
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36 minutes ago, sonyc said:

People have come together at a community level. Many good examples of that. I'm sure there are in Cornwall. 

The freedoms / together as a nation theme I still believe was very damaged by Cummings. And it appears he is having a major influence on how the government is behaving since. One day we will get to know a lot more.

We did come together but how long did it last? Cummings was and is appalling, but it’s lazy and completely missing the point to blame the way we have behaved solely on him, if it was that simple I wouldn’t be feeling so fed up.

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14 minutes ago, Well b back said:

 the daily death rate will soon be at 100 a day again.

Quite possibly.   In the early days the conparison was italy and how many days behind we were.   Is it now going to be France?  They will be knocking at the ton up door in a few days.

This was always going to be a long term issue and the idea that 2 weeks of lockdown will kill off every particle on earth was never realistic unfortunately.

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7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We did come together but how long did it last? Cummings was and is appalling, but it’s lazy and completely missing the point to blame the way we have behaved solely on him, if it was that simple I wouldn’t be feeling so fed up.

But I'm not blaming the way people have behaved completely on him. Where did I say that? 

I believe government sets the standard, like bosses do at organisations. Cultures are often led from the top. That said, people have a great responsibility for themselves. Many non government supporters still do the right thing (sometimes in spite or to compensate for poor messaging). But...some people need leading.

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I really cannot believe that the latest measure means anything.

Once again we are behind France and Spain but can see what is happening.

I walked past the local school a couple of mornings ago, on the other side, and the measures put in place for children going through the gates are chaotic.

Because of the stupidity of someone from miles away wanting their child to go to this respected school, half walk to school, but crucially half are driven.

So rather than stagger class starting times, all arrive at once. And parents are without masks, half the mammajammas smoking in public creating unwanted exhalation. And those driving have to get out and escort their child.

I would like to know what the head's qualifications are. Certainly not common sense.

Infant and Junior schools, where the children need parents to take them to school, are not going to suffer educationally if they are closed again.

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28 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hi sonyc

I know you and Van wink read our other related thread and isn’t amazing how the Oxford and London predictions if he changed those words to be aware were ?. The horrifying thing is what they are predicting now if the government don’t start acting on their latest findings. According to their latest thoughts the first wave is going to be a drop in the ocean. In a couple of weeks time when hospital numbers start to increase big they will be telling us that the virus is just as deadly as it was before, but they should have been doing this 3 weeks ago. There are now 800 in hospital so unless treatments are really working the daily death rate will soon be at 100 a day again.

It's a great worry yes. Whitty stated we have a very difficult winter ahead didn't he? It seems this thing is just there, all the time and simply needs people to act as courriers. And the degree of flaunting of social distancing by certain communities (and I mean here types of social community ...such as urban, age-related etc) is providing a fertile ground. 

I have been critical of the messaging for sure. In reality, I reckon whatever government was in power, would struggle. I am sure of that. It doesn't help that we have this particular government which hasn't been very strong on the governing side or collaborative on tge community health side. I think the latter is purely ideological. 

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It's a great worry yes. Whitty stated we have a very difficult winter ahead didn't he? It seems this thing is just there, all the time and simply needs people to act as courriers. And the degree of flaunting of social distancing by certain communities (and I mean here types of social community ...such as urban, age-related etc) is providing a fertile ground. 

I have been critical of the messaging for sure. In reality, I reckon whatever government was in power, would struggle. I am sure of that. It doesn't help that we have this particular government which hasn't been very strong on the governing side or collaborative on tge community health side. I think the latter is purely ideological. 

Yes they have been very weak. They seem to just follow the minority who often shout louder. There is a good example of this right now where as when they announced the schools were reopening they said if numbers start to increase rapidly, to keep the schools open, they will close the pubs. We are in this situation and the pubs are still open. Seems they are scared. 
 

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Yes they have been very weak. They seem to just follow the minority who often shout louder. There is a good example of this right now where as when they announced the schools were reopening they said if numbers start to increase rapidly, to keep the schools open, they will close the pubs. We are in this situation and the pubs are still open. Seems they are scared. 
 

There is a lot of in-house wrangling. Some Conservatives are canvassing for the economy and business to remain open. Johnson himself had the virus and is likely to be more cautious knowing about the virus first hand. It was telling hearing that snippet that the latest Rule of 6 for some Tories was a typical "Labour type thing to do". It is indeed odd to have pubs open I agree ....and gyms have just opened too!

Up where I live many pubs have created outdoor situations converting car parks etc. So there may be creative solutions.

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Yes they have been very weak. They seem to just follow the minority who often shout louder. There is a good example of this right now where as when they announced the schools were reopening they said if numbers start to increase rapidly, to keep the schools open, they will close the pubs. We are in this situation and the pubs are still open. Seems they are scared. 
 

I just hate to be proved right again on this but this upwelling in Covid goes back to August, and the eat out to get Covid mantra. The sad fact is that where I agree with the latest restrictions they are as ever purely reactive to the growing menace. The government never seems to get ahead and stay ahead of the curve. The current restrctions are unlikely to reverse but just slow the rate of acceleration with more draconian restrctions to inevitably follow.

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29 minutes ago, sonyc said:

But I'm not blaming the way people have behaved completely on him. Where did I say that? 

I believe government sets the standard, like bosses do at organisations. Cultures are often led from the top. That said, people have a great responsibility for themselves. Many non government supporters still do the right thing (sometimes in spite or to compensate for poor messaging). But...some people need leading.

Yeh ok, over reacted, apology. I’m just feeling so peed off atm, it’s been so obvious what’s been coming yet I have been watching people coming to the North Norfolk coast all summer and behaving as if there had been no pandemic and everything was fine and I hear people on radio phone ins etc using Cummings as an excuse for this. He has a huge culpability but it’s to easy to blame him for ones own failure to behave. 

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23 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yeh ok, over reacted, apology. I’m just feeling so peed off atm, it’s been so obvious what’s been coming yet I have been watching people coming to the North Norfolk coast all summer and behaving as if there had been no pandemic and everything was fine and I hear people on radio phone ins etc using Cummings as an excuse for this. He has a huge culpability but it’s to easy to blame him for ones own failure to behave. 

Yep 5 weeks ago they could have stopped this, to late now, but maybe that’s what they want ?

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38 minutes ago, sonyc said:

There is a lot of in-house wrangling. Some Conservatives are canvassing for the economy and business to remain open. Johnson himself had the virus and is likely to be more cautious knowing about the virus first hand. It was telling hearing that snippet that the latest Rule of 6 for some Tories was a typical "Labour type thing to do". It is indeed odd to have pubs open I agree ....and gyms have just opened too!

Up where I live many pubs have created outdoor situations converting car parks etc. So there may be creative solutions.

We don’t come under Birmingham Council, but live in the area so we are not subject to the extra measures to come next week. However the measures are to begin on Tuesday, which has given the green light to the City to have one mass party tonight and tomorrow night. This again as the rule of 6 gives people an extra couple of days for the virus to gain control, why were the new rules not immediate ? Especially as they go through a weekend with good weather. If 50 people go into Birmingham tonight with the virus, if the latest estimates are right they will spread it to 100 more. Scary stuff

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45 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I just hate to be proved right again on this but this upwelling in Covid goes back to August, and the eat out to get Covid mantra. The sad fact is that where I agree with the latest restrictions they are as ever purely reactive to the growing menace. The government never seems to get ahead and stay ahead of the curve. The current restrctions are unlikely to reverse but just slow the rate of acceleration with more draconian restrctions to inevitably follow.

Indeed

Oxford and London have both said Uni courses should be online to begin with and have made the government aware of the consequences of a full reopening.

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7 minutes ago, Well b back said:

We don’t come under Birmingham Council, but live in the area so we are not subject to the extra measures to come next week. However the measures are to begin on Tuesday, which has given the green light to the City to have one mass party tonight and tomorrow night. This again as the rule of 6 gives people an extra couple of days for the virus to gain control, why were the new rules not immediate ? Especially as they go through a weekend with good weather. If 50 people go into Birmingham tonight with the virus, if the latest estimates are right they will spread it to 100 more. Scary stuff

Yep it’s  exactly the same as they did before, absolutely clueless.

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7 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Indeed

Oxford and London have both said Uni courses should be online to begin with and have made the government aware of the consequences of a full reopening.

Look at places like Canterbury with two Uni’s where their population something like doubles during Term time, disaster waiting to happen.

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41 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yeh ok, over reacted, apology. I’m just feeling so peed off atm, it’s been so obvious what’s been coming yet I have been watching people coming to the North Norfolk coast all summer and behaving as if there had been no pandemic and everything was fine and I hear people on radio phone ins etc using Cummings as an excuse for this. He has a huge culpability but it’s to easy to blame him for ones own failure to behave. 

People ringing up on the radio often have over-exaggerated views don't they? ("Wass gorn orn" type utterings) and they may only represent a small cohort of views! But...that said agree it's been obvious what might happen. My annoyance is focussed, as Yellow Fever touched on, on the fact that we've not given out consistent or strong enough messages. It's been so laissez-faire as to be ridiculous. I've posted a few times. It's a f***ing pandemic....we need strong leadership!! Maybe it would not changed a thing though?

Trouble ahead.

Why doesn't the government just give over to scientists doing the messaging. We got a snippet  recently from Van-Tam. I trust the scientists more!

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So if we have to "learn to live with this" forever, I'd be interested to know what the figures look like for a typical flu season.

I hate to do the old "compare it to flu" thing but if its going to become a balancing act with the economy etc. I wonder what sort of winter outbreak we can get away with without the NHS being overwhelmed?

I wonder if that whole rumoured over 50s isolation plan will be considered? As harsh and unbelievable as it may seem, it may be the best way to keep hospital figures down while the virus in "Thanos, I am inevitable" style smashes through our population.

As an aside, I just went to look at Frances figures and a "travel PCR test" advert came up for £93. As a crumb of comfort, deaths still don't seem to have increased significantly in France... Has anywhere had a proper "2nd wave" of deaths yet? edit: just seen Frances deaths today 😔

Edited by Tetteys Jig

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8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Look at places like Canterbury with two Uni’s where their population something like doubles during Term time, disaster waiting to happen.

Exactly what we have seen here in the US. For example University of Alabama - over 500 cases identified within a single week. 

Universities in California are on-line only until further notice. It's unfortunately another Democrat v Republican led State issue. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-campuses-face-explosion-covid-19-cases-challenges-get-students-n1238053

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5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

People ringing up on the radio often have over-exaggerated views don't they? ("Wass gorn orn" type utterings) and they may only represent a small cohort of views! But...that said agree it's been obvious what might happen. My annoyance is focussed, as Yellow Fever touched on, on the fact that we've not given out consistent or strong enough messages. It's been so laissez-faire as to be ridiculous. I've posted a few times. It's a f***ing pandemic....we need strong leadership!! Maybe it would not changed a thing though?

Trouble ahead.

Why doesn't the government just give over to scientists doing the messaging. We got a snippet  recently from Van-Tam. I trust the scientists more!

They do indeed, but not all, and these are views often echoed by commentators. The messaging has be poor, it’s been better in Scotland according to many, not sure they have done a great deal better in terms of infections. 
Fully agree on the scientists, they were not comfortable with unlocking when we still had 2000 infections a day, they will have known as many of us did that the lowering of infection rates over the summer was merely a pause, yet we heard nothing from them. Would people have even paid attention.

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15 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Exactly what we have seen here in the US. For example University of Alabama - over 500 cases identified within a single week. 

Universities in California are on-line only until further notice. It's unfortunately another Democrat v Republican led State issue. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-campuses-face-explosion-covid-19-cases-challenges-get-students-n1238053

Yes I put the New York Times story on the come on Sarah thread this morning. Think the figure was 50,000 infections to date, with 60 deaths but the thing that doesn’t get reported, the huge number of young getting life time disabilities.

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Anyone watching BBC news ?

They just reported that hospital numbers have doubled this week in Birmingham and they expect it to double each week now.

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21 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

So if we have to "learn to live with this" forever, I'd be interested to know what the figures look like for a typical flu season.

I hate to do the old "compare it to flu" thing but if its going to become a balancing act with the economy etc. I wonder what sort of winter outbreak we can get away with without the NHS being overwhelmed?

I wonder if that whole rumoured over 50s isolation plan will be considered? As harsh and unbelievable as it may seem, it may be the best way to keep hospital figures down while the virus in "Thanos, I am inevitable" style smashes through our population.

As an aside, I just went to look at Frances figures and a "travel PCR test" advert came up for £93. As a crumb of comfort, deaths still don't seem to have increased significantly in France... Has anywhere had a proper "2nd wave" of deaths yet? edit: just seen Frances deaths today 😔

Hi Tettey

Being a 60 year old diabetic I would be relieved if they locked down over 50’s ( I know this is very controversial ). 
BBC are reporting the first infections this time round in care homes as it is brought in unwittingly by carers. Lock care homes down NOW, 2 weeks time will be to late.

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13 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Anyone watching BBC news ?

They just reported that hospital numbers have doubled this week in Birmingham and they expect it to double each week now.

Yes I did WBB. It was chilling. The hospital chief bloke looked very worried.

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10 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Hi Tettey

Being a 60 year old diabetic I would be relieved if they locked down over 50’s ( I know this is very controversial ). 
BBC are reporting the first infections this time round in care homes as it is brought in unwittingly by carers. Lock care homes down NOW, 2 weeks time will be to late.

Do you mind me asking if you are type 1 or 2 WBB? I've read a lot of late about ways of reversing type 2....reason for asking. I recently found out I'm prediabetic (only a bit older than you) so I'm making lots of small changes.

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Full lockdown is just around the corner, I can see a 10pm curfew soon plus over 50’s asked to stay at home and self isolate. Care homes will be locked down with no visitors, it’s going to be a tough winter. Only hope is a vaccine

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Yes I did WBB. It was chilling. The hospital chief bloke looked very worried.

And resigned to the fact. He wasn’t even saying unless we change, he was saying ‘ we see no reason why the numbers would not double again next week, the week after and the week after that. Let’s pray some of the treatments we have reported in the come on Sarah thread really work.

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Do you mind me asking if you are type 1 or 2 WBB? I've read a lot of late about ways of reversing type 2....reason for asking. I recently found out I'm prediabetic (only a bit older than you) so I'm making lots of small changes.

Yes I am type 2, have always weighed 14 - 15 stone ( 5ft 7 ), but as soon as I heard what was happening to diabetics in China I changed. My diet changed completely and even via a WII I started exercising. I lost 4 stone, and believe I am remission. PM me I have some breaking news read the come on Sarah thread urgent.

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