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current polling has, if you include safe, likely and leaning towards

BIiden 281

Trump 114

with 143 undecided

so even if Trump were to win every undecided state he would still lose - and it maybe as in the UK a shift of a couple of points tilts it far greater that the average before

and the bad news for the buffoon is that the numbers have slowly been slipping away

https://www.270towin.com/maps/biden-trump-polling-map

As to the senate that may well be down to where the seats are up for election. 2018 they were mainly in the south so there is every thought this year that the democrats could gain control of both houses.

 

image.thumb.png.13253b149493898f6036030d6b4b1e43.png

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We have three threads to our election results - Biden should win but any of these three can have major impact on the results. 

1. Voter suppression  - we can't let you vote by mail even in a pandemic can we?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/503679-barr-echoes-trumps-concerns-about-mail-in-voting-says-it-could-open

2. Legal action against Trump's allies (the President can't be touched while he's in office) 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1274361764424019973.html

 

3. Reaction to Coronavirus and "race riots". 10,00 maskless MAGA acolytes tonight at DT's indoor area rally - not a mask in sight 😞 And the choice of Tulsa, the scene of an 1921 massacre of black citizens.

 

Edited by Surfer

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39 minutes ago, Herman said:

Slaughterhouses again! Maybe the vegans have a point.

Think of battery hens...these plants are often human versions I'm told, with people working in very close proximity to each other.  Yet, I too keep reading about markets and other animal preparation hotspots that I also wonder if raw animal product somehow attracts the virus? 

I believe we may see months of localised outbreaks reading all the recent news where the main 'wave' has been managed down to low numbers. I had initial confidence that it was weakening and dissipating but now I'm far less sure. It appears just to be an omni-presence in fact. Otherwise, why would there be these outbreaks? If it has passed and there has been no evidence it is brought in from elsewhere, then it must just be 'around' / 'in the air'.  Apologies for my inarticulation in description just here. Yet, it's baffling.

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I think the spike in Beijing recently started in a market, again and as mentioned, there is a big spike in Florida, which is partly to do with loose lockdown rules. But, yes, it hangs around so hopefully most people are still being sensible.

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9 hours ago, sonyc said:

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanys-coronavirus-r-rate-jumps-22226571?

Obvious now that C19 is very persistent. You can see how localised outbreaks can get out of hand. No football, leisure or other crowd events for a long time and a curtailed business and social life too?

You do wonder about all the rallies.

Disappointing to see what’s happening in Germany, poor food standards, exploitation of foreign workers, shocking health and safety standards at work and poor public health and infection control.

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37 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Disappointing to see what’s happening in Germany, poor food standards, exploitation of foreign workers, shocking health and safety standards at work and poor public health and infection control.

......🎣

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Where's steeperscreepers - I hope he is not another of this quick come and go logins

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Didn’t expect to get you on the line Billy hey ho😀

Its like finding your favourite spot with you best gear on a beautiful day and catching a newt🥃

Edited by Van wink

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Didn’t expect to get you on the line Billy hey ho😀

Its like finding your favourite spot with you best gear on a beautiful day and catching a newt🥃

Not really sure what you are on about - other than to confirm that your intent on here is not one of adding to the debate

just trying to cause trouble, as always

ah wel. plus ca change...

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17 minutes ago, Bill said:

Not really sure what you are on about - other than to confirm that your intent on here is not one of adding to the debate

just trying to cause trouble, as always

ah wel. plus ca change...

Straight back in the pond with you Billy 😉

Edited by Van wink

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23 hours ago, Van wink said:

Disappointing to see what’s happening in Germany, poor food standards, exploitation of foreign workers, shocking health and safety standards at work and poor public health and infection control.

 

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On 21/06/2020 at 09:26, sonyc said:

 

You do wonder about all the rallies.

So long as it's not at Nuremberg then I'm not too worried.

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24 minutes ago, ricardo said:

So long as it's not at Nuremberg then I'm not too worried.

The difference being there that photos from Nuremberg are black and white, whereas from Tulsa they are white

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Not a reality check at all, it’s stating the obvious. That doesn’t detract from the fact it’s an interesting development, a large localised outbreak, in country that has managed the pandemic very well. A warning of how difficult things are going to be.

Edited by Van wink
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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Not a reality check at all, it’s stating the obvious. That doesn’t detract from the fact it’s an interesting development, a large localised outbreak, in country that has managed the pandemic very well. A warning of how difficult things are going to be.

You mean how difficult its going to be in a country that hasn't managed the pandemic well so far and continues to handle it very badly........such as the UK?

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Three large outbreaks all at meatworks. I wonder if there is any connection with raw meat.

There is one in Anglesey I think KG?

Would be very surprised if it had any link with raw meat, but it is interesting.

maybe something to do with close working conditions.

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1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

You mean how difficult its going to be in a country that hasn't managed the pandemic well so far and continues to handle it very badly........such as the UK?

I mean in a country where the infection rate is still high and that even as it continues to decrease we need to be very mindful of the continuing risk

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I think meat packers work very closely in production lines. A local supermarket near me with a factory unit had a 47% absentee rate for C19 during the peak in April. I know this from a friend who works in management so has detailed information. 

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think meat packers work very closely in production lines. A local supermarket near me with a factory unit had a 47% absentee rate for C19 during the peak in April. I know this from a friend who works in management so has detailed information. 

Yeh that would be my thought.  So much for health and safety!

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This, I would imagine

“The entire sector is in a disastrous race to the bottom, driven by the market and by consumer demand for cheap meat,” said Peter Schmidt, the head of international affairs at the German food workers union NGG. Schmidt claimed modern plants in Germany brought in contract workers from Eastern Europe who were prepared to put up with low wages.

“The working conditions in these plants are the absolute worst; cold, close together, working at high speed. And the housing, it is like in slavery times. When we were looking at it, we found that people were having to share beds. You do a 12-hour shift and then you change over.”

" “We still have workers dying here,” he said. “The inherent problems in the way that packing plants are set up are still there.” Under Trump, labour inspectors have been cut back, while production-line speeds have been increased, he said. Profits depend on workers being close together, working at high speed."

Temperature is dismissed - in an informative read

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/22/poor-conditions-in-meat-plants-fuel-covid-19-outbreaks-say-unions

 

"

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11 minutes ago, Bill said:

This, I would imagine

“The entire sector is in a disastrous race to the bottom, driven by the market and by consumer demand for cheap meat,” said Peter Schmidt, the head of international affairs at the German food workers union NGG. Schmidt claimed modern plants in Germany brought in contract workers from Eastern Europe who were prepared to put up with low wages.

“The working conditions in these plants are the absolute worst; cold, close together, working at high speed. And the housing, it is like in slavery times. When we were looking at it, we found that people were having to share beds. You do a 12-hour shift and then you change over.”

" “We still have workers dying here,” he said. “The inherent problems in the way that packing plants are set up are still there.” Under Trump, labour inspectors have been cut back, while production-line speeds have been increased, he said. Profits depend on workers being close together, working at high speed."

Temperature is dismissed - in an informative read

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/22/poor-conditions-in-meat-plants-fuel-covid-19-outbreaks-say-unions

 

"

Meat 'industrial farming' in Germany and Poland is why the cheaper supermarket chains undercut local producers. People don't want to pay the extra.

The French have some of the most sustainable methods in terms of food production and for years now have had a "Mangez Français" movement. Meat is more expensive but it often comes from a source less than 50 miles away (in many cases). The UK needs to have a similar campaign and policy. Yet as you've stated Bill, it's a race to the bottom. That's been the UK for many decades though. Even mill owners wanted to sweat every penny and pound....Whereas countries in the far East (to give just an example) have invested in infrastructure and innovation.

Edited by sonyc

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This is the kind of thing that really interests me (I'm a fan of coops) and sorry if it's not quite on the right thread. Yet, it follows on from the posts above. "C'est qui le patron" (Who's the boss) is catching on. Hopefully in the UK soon. (Something I would love to be involved with!)....

How millions of French shoppers are rejecting cut-price capitalism

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/04/french-shoppers-rejecting-cut-price-capitalism-nicolas-chabanne?

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My concern this is the very direction those behind Brexit want to take the UK

"Most observers believe that much deeper changes are needed. “The whole system is built on using low-paid, badly exploited workers,” said James Ritchie of the International Union of Food Workers. “They may be charged excessive rent for their accommodation, or for transport from east Europe. It is dirty and dangerous work, and most people don’t want to do it. So companies have to go looking for people who are prepared to do it and put up with the wages.”

So we stop the French level of quality, and follow Trump's line of cutting inspectors, regulations and safe work conditions - as only once outside the EU can the UK follow that path

And with cheap and dodgy US meat products coming into the UK, we will have to join that race to the bottom to survive.

Unfortunately with the EU not knowing where the meat coming out of the UK originated, UK exports of meat products will go the way they did with BSE.

Still the passport has changed colour, so voters can go to the EU and state they are British, even if the meat cannot



 

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11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

This is the kind of thing that really interests me (I'm a fan of coops) and sorry if it's not quite on the right thread. Yet, it follows on from the posts above. "C'est qui le patron" (Who's the boss) is catching on. Hopefully in the UK soon. (Something I would love to be involved with!)....

How millions of French shoppers are rejecting cut-price capitalism

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/04/french-shoppers-rejecting-cut-price-capitalism-nicolas-chabanne?

And runs counter to pretty much all that brexit is about ie concentrating power with large concerns, reducing labour costs and the quality of the goods.

The current Tory revolt against extended Sunday hours suggests that there is a resistance to commerce dominating our lives

The lockdown has empowered many who know see the importance of food, and the part that have been playing in it's distribution ..... free meals.

With a large number of 'ping food' restaurant chains (TFI ) going to the wall it may allow folk a chance to see and value what they eat - as there has certainly been a mood swing towards valuing what we once wasted

Maybe even obesity and diabetes can now be seen the way cancer was in regard to tobacco.

Maybe working away from the kids so as to be able to take them to Disney land is not so important after all - when you can have time with them and teach them to cook

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30 minutes ago, sonyc said:

This is the kind of thing that really interests me (I'm a fan of coops) and sorry if it's not quite on the right thread. Yet, it follows on from the posts above. "C'est qui le patron" (Who's the boss) is catching on. Hopefully in the UK soon. (Something I would love to be involved with!)....

How millions of French shoppers are rejecting cut-price capitalism

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/04/french-shoppers-rejecting-cut-price-capitalism-nicolas-chabanne?

It’s a great concept linked with ethical trading practice, reduced food miles and associated environmental benefits, putting people, consumers, back in touch with where food comes from and how it’s produced. The challenge is one of scale to make products universally available and not the niche purchases of only those that can afford the choice. And in fact it does have relevance to this thread, poor husbandry and environmental abuse will no doubt be the reservoir from where further novel pathogens emerge.

Edited by Van wink
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