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11 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

 

 

11 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Now there is a comprehensive answer!  

I'm not sure that many on here would agree with the visitor thing.  I wonder of there is capacity at airport and nearby hotels to hold people pending the outcome of the arrival tests?

 

13 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

I would do the following:

Release the tracking app. Why the hell has it taken so long? (Question not aimed at Bb). Encourage people to download it 

Get the track and trace system working properly 

Up the testing rate even further, no fantasy targets, just as many as possible 

Employ as many companies involved in healthcare/testing to achieve the above 

Keep the country open for foreign visitors who are willing to pay for a test on arrival. Maybe consider accepting visitors who have a recent certificate of a negative test undertaken abroad, if I could be convinced it was unlikely they could have contracted the virus between having the test and arrival 

Allow pubs and restaurants, and any other places of entertainment to open as long as they can provide 2m between different groups of people. Try to get as many people working again 

Consult medical experts on likelihood of 2nd wave and make contingency plans

Employ and/or incentivise pharmaceutical companies to develop a vaccine 

Hopefully the government is already doing the last 2 points 

 

Reference the visitors to the UK, I would immediately look to be negotiating the air bridge things. Even if that meant we accepted visitors from Spain (for example) but Spain wasn't quite ready to accept visitors from the UK for maybe 2-3 weeks whilst the infection rate went down (assuming it does !!). I see no point at all in quarantining visitors from countries that are ahead of us.

The other thing I would like to see done immediately is a study into the "viral load" being seen in those people who have tested positive for the virus. I thought it was very interesting to read the Italian doctors views that the virus was losing it's potency and I would love to see that being tested here. Could make a huge change to the ongoing strategy.

The rest I pretty much agree with although I would say that upping the testing rate is probably easier said than done due to people just not going to be tested. I passed the big Portsmouth one early afternoon yesterday. You can see it alongside the motorway on the way into the city, there were plenty of staff there but hardly any people wanting to be tested. I may just have hit a quiet time but it does seem to me that we now have adequate capacity - at least in the short-term ie discounting a second wave.

Edited by Mark .Y.
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14 hours ago, Herman said:

Dare I mention Bob Seely MP??🤣

How does the saying go? "You can judge a man by his friends".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/tory-mp-bob-seely-attended-lockdown-barbecue-with-journalists

Bob Seely went to the evening gathering hosted by the Spectator magazine’s deputy editor, Freddy Gray, in the village of Seaview on the island last month. Richard Tice, the Brexit party chairman, and his partner, the political journalist Isabel Oakeshott, were also there.

 

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55 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I may well have just answered my own question. Here is a nice opinion piece sourced from the Francis Crick Institute. It sums up things for me really well, is largely positive (realistic too) but most of all purposive. It raises more questions of immunity, second waves and track/testing but places responsibility on us all...

 

 

Less than 10% of people in Britain are immune to coronavirus. There's no room for mistakes | Coronavirus outbreak | The Guardian

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/britons-immune-coronavirus-mistakes-covid-19-spread

 

Enjoyed reading that, obviously his personal view (but an appropriately qualified person to have that view), bit surprised by this quote from it regarding getting R below 1 though "Finally, we were pursuing the correct strategy, the one adopted early on by Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand – the strategy that Sage advice had hitherto failed to identify." 

Not sure if there is any genuine evidence out there that Sage had failed to identify this ??

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7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

How does the saying go? "You can judge a man by his friends".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/tory-mp-bob-seely-attended-lockdown-barbecue-with-journalists

Bob Seely went to the evening gathering hosted by the Spectator magazine’s deputy editor, Freddy Gray, in the village of Seaview on the island last month. Richard Tice, the Brexit party chairman, and his partner, the political journalist Isabel Oakeshott, were also there.

 

Covid is probably the least worst thing you could catch from Tice and Gob****te.😀

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8 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Enjoyed reading that, obviously his personal view (but an appropriately qualified person to have that view), bit surprised by this quote from it regarding getting R below 1 though "Finally, we were pursuing the correct strategy, the one adopted early on by Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand – the strategy that Sage advice had hitherto failed to identify." 

Not sure if there is any genuine evidence out there that Sage had failed to identify this ??

We don't get to see much advice from Sage do we. I was disappointed to read that too. Must admit I thought we did go for the South Korea method very early on (I recall the first two York cases identified and reading where they had been etc). Yet, very soon we abandoned that...(the herd immunity question and probably because cases grew out of control quickly and we didn't have the capacity then?).

 

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6 minutes ago, sonyc said:

We don't get to see much advice from Sage do we. I was disappointed to read that too. Must admit I thought we did go for the South Korea method very early on (I recall the first two York cases identified and reading where they had been etc). Yet, very soon we abandoned that...(the herd immunity question and probably because cases grew out of control quickly and we didn't have the capacity then?).

 

We started off with good old track and trace, we didn’t have the testing capacity to continue and also test hospitalised patients and NHS staff. In the circumstances the right decision was made. I don’t get the apparent outrage I often see over that decision, we had no choice at that time.
The big failing for me was the delay in then developing test and trace at a local level in anticipation of more tests becoming available. I suspect the national program was done as there were fears we would be overwhelmed, again I don’t have a problem with the National recruitment for track and trace but at the the same time we should have been developing local capacity, that imo is where the fault lies.

As for care homes, that’s a different story.

One thing that amazes me in all this is that there hasn’t been much reporting of outbreaks ( excuse the pun) in prisons. I suspect there have been many but maybe the mortality rate has been low or just ignored.

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34 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We started off with good old track and trace, we didn’t have the testing capacity to continue and also test hospitalised patients and NHS staff. In the circumstances the right decision was made. I don’t get the apparent outrage I often see over that decision, we had no choice at that time.
The big failing for me was the delay in then developing test and trace at a local level in anticipation of more tests becoming available. I suspect the national program was done as there were fears we would be overwhelmed, again I don’t have a problem with the National recruitment for track and trace but at the the same time we should have been developing local capacity, that imo is where the fault lies.

As for care homes, that’s a different story.

One thing that amazes me in all this is that there hasn’t been much reporting of outbreaks ( excuse the pun) in prisons. I suspect there have been many but maybe the mortality rate has been low or just ignored.

The mistake was not locking down at least one week but preferably two earlier. Yes dithering and delay at the top.

From that catastrophic error all else then follows ... 

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23 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Must have missed something here but what's wrong with Richard Tice?

Sometimes you can judge a person by the company they keep.

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Speaking to the in laws in NZ yesterday. They told us that initially the NZ Government didn't have a secure lockdown and probably believed that a nation in the South Pacific wasn't vulnerable.

Luckily, it wasn't long before they realised that their advice and their decisions were wrong and ordered a virtual complete lockdown.

And even now, while NZers can move about reasonably freely internally, they are not allowing visitors and are still analyzing whether they can adopt a bridge with Australia.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

We started off with good old track and trace, we didn’t have the testing capacity to continue and also test hospitalised patients and NHS staff. In the circumstances the right decision was made. I don’t get the apparent outrage I often see over that decision, we had no choice at that time.
The big failing for me was the delay in then developing test and trace at a local level in anticipation of more tests becoming available. I suspect the national program was done as there were fears we would be overwhelmed, again I don’t have a problem with the National recruitment for track and trace but at the the same time we should have been developing local capacity, that imo is where the fault lies.

As for care homes, that’s a different story.

One thing that amazes me in all this is that there hasn’t been much reporting of outbreaks ( excuse the pun) in prisons. I suspect there have been many but maybe the mortality rate has been low or just ignored.

I fully agree on the track and trace   Even if overwhelmed should have expanded local capacity so it was already available when numbers down and it if it was rapidly expanded at start as in  other countries than this would have been effective. Also private testing capacity was available but chose not to use it. Also corona tracing apps are available. I know I have one on my phone but again the government has gone it’s own way and looks like not available until September. Each time the government has looked to develop something from scratch rather than use what already available and working in other countries or in the UK and develop and expand those existing capabilities costing deadly delays. As the Guardian expert letter is pointing out it is a structural problem with the government ideology and approach that underlies the whole disfunctional nature of the UK government with poor leadership which needs urgent review but yet again the government wants to delay and dither rather than address issues.  
 

You can point to specific issues but fundamentally  you are always likely to have specific issues occurring when you have a dysfunctional Government with dysfunctional leadership. The problems are just going to keep recurring. Put simply Boris and his cronies aren’t  suddenly going to become more intelligent or more competent.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

The mistake was not locking down at least one week but preferably two earlier. Yes dithering and delay at the top.

From that catastrophic error all else then follows ... 

Yes that was also a mistake.

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Speaking to the in laws in NZ yesterday. They told us that initially the NZ Government didn't have a secure lockdown and probably believed that a nation in the South Pacific wasn't vulnerable.

Luckily, it wasn't long before they realised that their advice and their decisions were wrong and ordered a virtual complete lockdown.

And even now, while NZers can move about reasonably freely internally, they are not allowing visitors and are still analyzing whether they can adopt a bridge with Australia.

Interesting times for  New Zealand and possibly the hardest for them. 

With an economy in which international tourism plays a huge role how long can you stay closed, but when can you open given that the virus is still almost universal?

NZ locked down only  a few days after us, has escaped anything like the worst of it but is far from free of the shadow that has been cast.  

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32 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Interesting times for  New Zealand and possibly the hardest for them. 

With an economy in which international tourism plays a huge role how long can you stay closed, but when can you open given that the virus is still almost universal?

NZ locked down only  a few days after us, has escaped anything like the worst of it but is far from free of the shadow that has been cast.  

Agree it will be interesting to observe how NZ manages out of the pandemic. They have locked so hard but keeping it away will be a huge challenge especially for the economy. 

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When I lived there in the 70s, they had great income from primary products such as lamb, wool and timber. Yes they wanted tourists but it wasn't "advanced" enough for tourists. They weren't prepared to exploit any of the natural beauty of the country.

Then they deregistered so much of the country and the tourists flooded in also eager to exploit the good exchange rate. And it was boom time.

I was there last year and so much of the nation has become very US with cross over British values. And quite a divided country. Their politics has evolved so much that there are too many parties so that Ardern, a Labour PM, has had to cobble together a massive coalition. Which makes for interesting and divergent cabinet meetings and decisions. For in stance it is no longer the New Zealand Police Force but the New Zealand Police Service because force apparently sends out the wrong message.

Whether they can recover as much as the top economies of the world are bound to is questionable. It isn't a nation that carries great reserves because it does spend so much of its income on its residents welfare.

The metropolitans will be OK. Auckland is as big as Manchester, Wellington is the political capital and seat of all Government departments and Christchurch is slap bang in the middle of fine farming country.

But I do fear for some of the smaller areas which do rely on tourism as people seem to tour the country rather than stay in one place. Nobody from outside the metropolitans can afford to move to them because housing is so expensive. When I left Wellington on 1980 I sold my house to my in laws for $37500, they sold it in the mid 90s for $375000. And now it is selling for $1,500,000.

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7 hours ago, sonyc said:

I may well have just answered my own question. Here is a nice opinion piece sourced from the Francis Crick Institute. It sums up things for me really well, is largely positive (realistic too) but most of all purposive. It raises more questions of immunity, second waves and track/testing but places responsibility on us all...

 

 

Less than 10% of people in Britain are immune to coronavirus. There's no room for mistakes | Coronavirus outbreak | The Guardian

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/britons-immune-coronavirus-mistakes-covid-19-spread

 

Thank you for the link.

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Locked down too late... and and now coming out too early?

Worrying evidence that the r rate is on the rise and may be above 1 in the East. I imagine this data could get worse as the current relaxations are extended. Year 10s go back to school next week as well as everything else.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-r-rate-east-of-england-figures-revealed-1-6688034

Image

Edited by Badger
Corrected mistake - thanks YF for notification!
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55 minutes ago, Badger said:

Locked down too early ... and and now coming out too early?

Worrying evidence that the r rate is on the rise and may be above 1 in the East. I imagine this data could get worse as the current relaxations are extended. Year 10s go back to school next week as well as everything else.

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-r-rate-east-of-england-figures-revealed-1-6688034

Image

Locked down too late.

Edited by Yellow Fever
It's what I thought you meant but there are some daft b*****ers on here
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Well then people shouldn’t deny racism is a problem when it is clearly endemic in U.K. society and attack people for being against racism 

 

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17 minutes ago, T said:

Well then people shouldn’t deny racism is a problem when it is clearly endemic in U.K. society and attack people for being against racism 

 

Are you in favour of mass gatherings atm T?

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Well that makes two of us so thats a start. As for the Corona Virus issues, mass gatherings are not a good idea atm.

Edited by Van wink
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No, they are not a good idea but because of a certain incident the government have lost authority on the matter. They pushed it back into the hands of the British public and I am pretty certain it was deliberate as a way of getting rid of some of the blame of what might come next.

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As a white Caucasian I can’t fully understand but I have most certainly experienced regularly the feeling of prejudice and you are not one of us and it does make you feel sick on the stomach. It is one the of the reasons I hold the views I do on a certain other matter. Universally it has been from the older generation and not from the younger more international younger generation so hopefully.it will reduce over time. Just yesterday had a great meeting of minds with an Argentinan on a video conference which simply wouldn’t have been possible until recent technology. Ultimately we have much more common as humans than differences as nationalities and skin colour. Some weak minded people need to divide into tribes to feel strong unfortunately. 

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1 hour ago, T said:

Well then people shouldn’t deny racism is a problem when it is clearly endemic in U.K. society and attack people for being against racism 

 

I think the emotion of the situation has got to you. 

99.9% of the people protesting will do nothing to stop racism. They will march, go home and think they have done their bit. But it won't change a thing.

Please tell me what Obama did to  end racism in US Police Forces?  Obviously nothing. Its still rampant.

We have laws in this country and Tommy Robinson bends and contorts them to suit. Why is he allowed to do that? Why are his followers allowed to march through London?

There is no reason for anyone to practise racism in this country. People of different ethnicity have nothing to fear from the overwhelming majority of UK citizens or the Police.

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If you took the best politicians from each party the UK could have a good government. Unfortunately none of the current government would make a best X1 based on ability. You might give Boris a Gig as an after dinner speaker but I wouldn’t employ any of them in a business Setting  based on competence. 

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26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think the emotion of the situation has got to you. 

99.9% of the people protesting will do nothing to stop racism. They will march, go home and think they have done their bit. But it won't change a thing.

Please tell me what Obama did to  end racism in US Police Forces?  Obviously nothing. Its still rampant.

We have laws in this country and Tommy Robinson bends and contorts them to suit. Why is he allowed to do that? Why are his followers allowed to march through London?

There is no reason for anyone to practise racism in this country. People of different ethnicity have nothing to fear from the overwhelming majority of UK citizens or the Police.

Absolutely, what happened was utterly disgusting and the four police officers, from different ethnic backgrounds should and will get the justice they deserve.

The reality is all lives matter, including black, Asian, white young and old, and at this time, protesting could lead to many more lives being lost! I’m all for equality for all, but there must be sensible approach at this time.

 As already said it’s a strange country which has a an 1876 constitutional right to bare arms, including assault rifles....with a deep routed racist condition in some states of the US, who still think it’s 1861.

This virus should teach the world just how fragile we all are and how wars have been set aside to fight the virus, surely this is a time for forward reflection to move forward as humanity as one world, to learn to live, love and support each nation, people and planet!

Edited by Indy
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