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22 minutes ago, Pugin said:

Hope so, but have you seen many Care Homes that don't have a notice outside announcing that they have vacancies for staff? They struggle to recruit and have poorly paid and inexperienced staff alongside the excellent people. The current zeitgeist must make it immeasurably worse.

And can you imagine how the auditory body that checks compliance will be coping at the moment? They won't be queueing up to roll up their sleeves and audit the worst Care Homes, warts and all?

I am not pointing towards the majority of Care Homes, but the bottom 10% have long been very poor on compliance.

I'm not really a miserable git, it's more a question of posing a counter-argument. And I have heard so many horror stories.

Agree with this.

I've had experience (for the first time in my life) in the last 12 months  or so, with care homes (my mother was in a nursing home for 13 months until this January). My view of the home though was positive with incredible dedication on the whole. Just how carer's pay  is near or at minimum wage is a shocking thing, should be a national scandal.

Consider not just the physical skills you need or the administrative requirements, but the emotional intelligence needed to communicate with older and vulnerable people with compassion, tact and warmth.

Interesting to see what effect the virus will have on the CQC and what changes will be implemented post virus. Equally, how the care and NHS systems work together more seamlessly (my experience was that they are joined up yet I don't know how well). Funding of care is the big hot potato.

Edited by sonyc

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Excess Deaths. As per my answer. Frankly this has long been answered as in any 'league' table. Yes it could change with a 2nd wave etc. but it plainly obvious that we are in the relegation spots if not bottom as to 'competence'.

 

Have you got figures for excess deaths from other European countries? I haven’t seen any.

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43 minutes ago, Pugin said:

 

I worry about October / November. By that time public compliance will be eroded and the virus will have greater longevity, and secondly a lot of people will be grouped together indoors (whether allowed or not) with little ventilation. However, it is likely to be more a ripple than a wave. 

That's the seasonality debate again.

I am an optimist on this but I cant help thinking that measures will go on for many months yet and certainly over the next season

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Have you got figures for excess deaths from other European countries? I haven’t seen any.

@Yellow Fever Just seen the link in the edit bit of your previous post 👍

Edited by Aggy

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Many words and phrases have been conjured up during the crisis. One or two may be justified but many if not most are just platitudes to cover up mistakes or negligence. For instance, "the Government is working hard". No it isn't. It may be having meetings and the phone may ring late evening but for the main they are sat on their jacksies just making decisions.

The criticism of their handling is justified to all but the well known hard right on here. Yes, some of us are probably biased the other way but will give credit if it is warranted and I think Sunak has earned his credit. His is the hardest job of the lot. The others are guided by the science.

It is already June and the recovery is slow. And that is what worries me. We have been gifted with a glorious Spring and it has made accepting the guidelines so much easier. But surely we will see problems when people have to queue outside the supermarket when its pishing down. And come October when the usual round of seasonal illnesses and ailments occurs.

I think it is accepted that we were probably two weeks too slow to implement our guidelines and we may well have to pay a social price for that. How many of you season ticket holders will be buying one for next season, if and when it starts? Your fortnightly treat is going to be watching it on a screen and if we are relegated they will be irregular. I went to the rugby every other week and had a few pints with friends. That will be unlikely.

So for those that think the Government is doing a less than acceptable job at the moment, just wait until the Autumn when things change.

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17 hours ago, Herman said:

How far away do you live from your family in Norwich Wundaboy?

It's about 2.5 hours each way. While I reckon I could drive it normally, since we're both sleep deprived by the little one it's too much of a risk. Without being able to stay over it's a non-starter.

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37 minutes ago, Bill said:

I doubt anyone will be too shocked to read what has just be released

 

"The government’s use of figures on coronavirus testing “falls well short” of normal standards, the UK’s chief statistician has said, warning: “The aim seems to be to show the largest possible number of tests, even at the expense of understanding.”

In a scathing letter to health secretary Matt Hancock, UK Statistics Authority chair Sir David Norgrove said it was “hard to believe” that the way the numbers are analysed and presented helped support the testing programme.

And he said it was “not surprising” that the figures relied upon by Mr Hancock to bolster his claim of meeting high-profile testing targets were “so widely criticised and often mistrusted”."

updated to add

"The rebuke came just two days after the government announced it had met its target of 200,000 tests a day by the end of May, pointing to the fact that 205,634 tests were available without revealing exactly how many had actually been conducted.

Norgrove’s letter said it was “misleading” to lump together tests actually carried out with testing kits posted out, as Mr Hancock did when claiming to have met the earlier target of 100,000 daily tests by the end of April.

And it said that data presented by the health secretary failed to make clear how many swabs are carried out on the same patient while being counted as separate tests.

Testing figures “are presented in a way that is difficult to understand”, said Sir David, adding: “Many of the key numbers make little sense without recourse to the technical notes which are themselves sometimes hard to follow.”

More follows…

 

Which begs the question of how much more have they been misleading us about

 

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53 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Many words and phrases have been conjured up during the crisis. One or two may be justified but many if not most are just platitudes to cover up mistakes or negligence. For instance, "the Government is working hard". No it isn't. It may be having meetings and the phone may ring late evening but for the main they are sat on their jacksies just making decisions.

The criticism of their handling is justified to all but the well known hard right on here. Yes, some of us are probably biased the other way but will give credit if it is warranted and I think Sunak has earned his credit. His is the hardest job of the lot. The others are guided by the science.

It is already June and the recovery is slow. And that is what worries me. We have been gifted with a glorious Spring and it has made accepting the guidelines so much easier. But surely we will see problems when people have to queue outside the supermarket when its pishing down. And come October when the usual round of seasonal illnesses and ailments occurs.

I think it is accepted that we were probably two weeks too slow to implement our guidelines and we may well have to pay a social price for that. How many of you season ticket holders will be buying one for next season, if and when it starts? Your fortnightly treat is going to be watching it on a screen and if we are relegated they will be irregular. I went to the rugby every other week and had a few pints with friends. That will be unlikely.

So for those that think the Government is doing a less than acceptable job at the moment, just wait until the Autumn when things change.

Agree with most of that. The proverbial s h i t hits the fan in a few month when many of the furloughed workers on their extended  days-off with good weather discover that there isn't a job to go back too and the money ends. I can see the government becoming extremely unpopular in the autumn! 

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

@Yellow Fever Just seen the link in the edit bit of your previous post 👍

Our stats are here

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending22may2020#deaths-registered-by-week

51,466 more than the five-year average. Of the deaths registered by 22 May 2020, 43,837 mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate; this is 15.3% of all deaths.

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50 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Our stats are here

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending22may2020#deaths-registered-by-week

51,466 more than the five-year average. Of the deaths registered by 22 May 2020, 43,837 mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate; this is 15.3% of all deaths.

image.thumb.png.fd90c7f8c77876689c93d3152918e005.png

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1 hour ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

It's about 2.5 hours each way. While I reckon I could drive it normally, since we're both sleep deprived by the little one it's too much of a risk. Without being able to stay over it's a non-starter.

I've been trying to think of cockamamie schemes to help you out but all I've got is the hiring of a large campervan, somewhere to sleep, toilet and isolate but outside your family's gaff. Maybe someone else has a decent idea. 

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Agree with most of that. The proverbial s h i t hits the fan in a few month when many of the furloughed workers on their extended  days-off with good weather discover that there isn't a job to go back too and the money ends. I can see the government becoming extremely unpopular in the autumn! 

The government is unpopular now.

The ONLY reason Boris got in was because he promised to get over the brexit line - and he did that in his first week in office.  Since then - and even without this virus thing - there was always one direction his time in office was going to go.  So with the virus issue and brexit going to be the dominant issues of his time in office, he is going to struggle. Actually, anyone would struggle with that - but him more than most, I suspect.  It's largely a question of how long he can hold on to the support from his colleagues to keep him in the job.  The tory vultures will be lurking ready to pounce when they find a suitable person to take his place. 

 

Edited by lake district canary

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24 minutes ago, BigFish said:

image.thumb.png.fd90c7f8c77876689c93d3152918e005.png

So many different ways of measuring this each with pros as well as cons. Probably the best way of looking at relative measures is to take a whole year's figures for excess deaths.   Not that we'll all patiently wait for january to come round though....

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the BBC is currently reporting 61,895 extra deaths since mid March

 

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22 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

So many different ways of measuring this each with pros as well as cons. Probably the best way of looking at relative measures is to take a whole year's figures for excess deaths.   Not that we'll all patiently wait for january to come round though....

Not really BB.

The curves above tell enough the story to make some broad conclusions. Sure more will come to light. 

However if you want any more of push to see how badly we've done and how others currently see us -  I give you an article yesterday on the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52882177

"No early return for UK tourists, says Spain" - 1st June 2020

Edited by Yellow Fever

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2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Not really BB.

I'm just stating the facts not giving a political opinion.  C.51k excess deaths in the calendar year up to 29 may.  C.56k excess deaths after early march until 29 may.  

Figures for suspected covid involvement are lower and confirmed covid lower again.

Everyone can make their own mind up as to what they demonstrate.   There will be an inquiry but this is best done no earlier than January and preferably after mass vaccination.

 

 

 

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And so the shambles continues

Passengers arriving by air into the UK will be required to go into quarantine for 14 days, however

"Housing minister Simon Clarke appeared stumped in a live TV interview when challenged on how police spot checks on people could work when the detailed rules showed people would be allowed out for shopping." and "Regulations being issued today were expected to reveal that quarantined passengers would be allowed to use public transport if necessary"

 

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Not really BB.

The curves above tell enough the story to make some broad conclusions. Sure more will come to light. 

However if you want any more of push to see how badly we've done and how others currently see us -  I give you an article yesterday on the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52882177

"No early return for UK tourists, says Spain" - 1st June 2020

You can definitely make broad conclusions but there’s one big unknown missing though, how many infected people entered each country and over what period. I would imagine that isn’t uniform across all country’s but I wonder if we will ever know.

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21 minutes ago, Bill said:

And so the shambles continues

Passengers arriving by air into the UK will be required to go into quarantine for 14 days, however

"Housing minister Simon Clarke appeared stumped in a live TV interview when challenged on how police spot checks on people could work when the detailed rules showed people would be allowed out for shopping." and "Regulations being issued today were expected to reveal that quarantined passengers would be allowed to use public transport if necessary"

 

Need to follow how Hong Kong is doing it I think. That system you've noted won't work. 

I expect this quarantine procedure to be shelved within a few weeks. Maybe less. The tourist industry are putting on a lot of pressure 

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55 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Need to follow how Hong Kong is doing it I think. That system you've noted won't work. 

I expect this quarantine procedure to be shelved within a few weeks. Maybe less. The tourist industry are putting on a lot of pressure 

Completely agree sonyc, I have been highly critical of the policy since it was introduced. Ridiculous and just plain stupid.

And, assuming we have no kind of sudden unexpected rise in cases, I also expect the likes of Greece and Spain to lift their restrictions on UK tourists by around the beginning of July if not slightly earlier. Their tourist industries will be very keen to get the British back visiting.

Edited by Mark .Y.
Spelling

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So Johnson did lie about 'herd immunity -I wonder how that will play out with friends and relatives of the 60,00 dead

"Boris Johnson told Italy’s president he was aiming for “herd immunity” to defeat coronavirus, an explosive TV documentary has revealed – despite No 10 denying that was ever the policy."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson-herd-immunity-dispatches-channel-4-italy-president-a9544916.html

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From the BBC (alongside additional 324 deaths reported today)

It turns out that until yesterday, the figure for the number of people who died after a positive test only included those whose test had been processed in an NHS or Public Health England laboratory.

On 1 June, the system was changed so that it also included tests processed by a commercial lab (since 24 May). That change meant a total of 445 extra people were counted as having died after testing positive, which was why the cumulative number rose by so much more than the daily figure.

Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland still do not count people who have died after positive test results run through commercial labs.

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The shambles continues as now with the 'world beating test and trace

"Only one in four coronavirus patients identified in the government’s new test-and-trace programme - and little more than one-third of the contacts they named - were contacted within the first four days of the scheme's operation, leaked figures obtained by Channel 4 News suggest.

The test-and-trace system is a key element of the government’s plan to take Britain out of lockdown without sparking a new rise in infections, and Boris Johnson has promised that it will be “world-beating”.

 

Fatboy - get him gone

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So much for the hard rights attacks  that racism wasn’t a social issue. That really aged well. 

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“Leaked figures suggest” ......certainly nailling those  colours to the wall.

Edited by Van wink

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