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41 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Which public health services BF, it’s a very wide field ranging from health promotion to infectious disease investigation? In my experience under governments of all colours public health is seen as a Cinderella service, easy to make cuts as there are no immediate obvious effects. Investment in Public health is a long term policy option which no government is keen to invest in because they don’t get the political benefit of immediate returns. This is one of the many reasons why Health should be lifted out of the political to and fro and funded properly with a long term strategic plan.

That's a 25%+ cut since 2015/2016 to the total phs budget @Van wink. I can't see how health can be lifted out of the political argument though, but long term stragtegic planning would be a step in the right direction.

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10 minutes ago, BigFish said:

That's a 25%+ cut since 2015/2016 to the total phs budget @Van wink. I can't see how health can be lifted out of the political argument though, but long term stragtegic planning would be a step in the right direction.

Don’t know where you are getting your figures or info from BF, but for the record and for example the DPH service was transferred from PCG’s back to local government in 2013, you are not in possession of all the facts buddy, believe me it’s a very complex service provision. 

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Agree with this strongly M. The Blair/Brown era often felt to me as an extension to Thatcher's market economics too (with obvious tweaks). PFI and performance management regimes abounded. The latter bringing targets and KPI's that were poorly understood and were applied bluntly ...bringing with them the wrong behaviours. And yet we still have these meaningless targets now!

Agree too about long term investment. But I won't stray further (or may get into Brexit territory).

Yea I would never agree they were Blue Labour personally but they definitely jumped in with both feet economically.

I don’t believe in targets personally, I get into trouble at work for saying it. Target driven cultures are stupid IMO, you should just always keep trying to do better. Whether things are improving or getting worse is the only thing we should care about.

Target culture gives us our 100,000 tests by x day bullsh!t we’ve seen through this pandemic. Media and opposition latch onto it and Government refuses to lose face so creatively accounts to show they met it which then becomes an argument. What an example of colossal waste of time, focus and energy.

I really believe in long term investment, I think it’s why I get disillusioned with politics as it’s so short termist. That said my politics are clichedly centrist, I get pulled all over the spectrum depending on the topic. I’m certainly right of Bill which I’m sure would make me a “righty” in his eyes. 

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30 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Don’t know where you are getting your figures or info from BF, but for the record and for example the DPH service was transferred from PCG’s back to local government in 2013, you are not in possession of all the facts buddy, believe me it’s a very complex service provision. 

Don't claim to be an expert, but the Kings Fund is and cover it pretty well.......unless I have missed something?

Health charities make urgent call for £1 billion a year to reverse cuts to public health funding

Local government public health budgets: a time for turning?

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They are experts, just beware of oversimplification of what is a very complex system. As I said earlier the preventative aspect of public health has been an easy target under all governments. 

Edited by Van wink

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I have nothing constructive to add to this long-winded thread. Just hope to be the one to nudge it onto page 300. Let's see...

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Your equating moderate people with the far right, is only further evidence of how extreme you are, and I repeat it’s people like you that made Labour an irrelevance in terms of a prospective governing party

i have been a party member in the past and may well join again if clowns like you are put back where you belong, as an amusing but irrelevant side show.

Another lie

I question your claim to be part of the left - when all evidence points to the opposite

No mention by me of people, or far right - that's just you making up as does the 'resting' BB

Now why not post something to back up your claim about the Guardian, and in particular  the quoted article ?

I suspect, as with your 'mate' you won't. You will simply post up more righty, snide comments.

Whether you fool others is of little consequence - you don't fool me for one second, as your past posts, by whatever name demonstrate. I know exactly where you are coming from.

Johnson - just go

 

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Morning everybody, I'm up and just off to work shortly.

Thought I'd follow paddy's example and try and hit the 300 pages before I go  🙂

 

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8 hours ago, Monty13 said:

 I’m certainly right of Bill which I’m sure would make me a “righty” in his eyes. 

Nope.

You would need to have an almost slavish dedication to bleating out whatever your 'betters' espouse, no matter how obviously absurd it is - or how much it actually goes against your own financial interest,

Other than the gormless righties on here you should have a look on the comments in the Daily Mail. Most are beyond parody.

A place where Cummings was set up be a Remainer media, PPE shortage was caused by Gordon Brown single handedly collapsing the world economy and 'lefty' teachers are now blocking children’s vital education by putting out scare stories about the virus, so they can ignore the lockdown to spend their days quaffing champagne on beaches in Tuscany

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17 minutes ago, Bill said:

Nope.

You would need to have an almost slavish dedication to bleating out whatever your 'betters' espouse, no matter how obviously absurd it is - or how much it actually goes against your own financial interest,

Other than the gormless righties on here you should have a look on the comments in the Daily Mail. Most are beyond parody.

A place where Cummings was set up be a Remainer media, PPE shortage was caused by Gordon Brown single handedly collapsing the world economy and 'lefty' teachers are now blocking children’s vital education by putting out scare stories about the virus, so they can ignore the lockdown to spend their days quaffing champagne on beaches in Tuscany

What do you suggest? ......Gulags?  'Re-education' . ?

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11 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Would be fantastic news if true.

We had speculated on another thread about the possibility of the virus mutating and becoming weaker. Hopefully that is the case.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

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15 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

That was being reported in the US 4 weeks ago, so it is fairly old news

Examining the rests showed what happened to SARS in 2003

"Scientists have discovered a unique mutation to coronavirus in Arizona - and it's a pattern that they've seen before. 

One of the 382 samples they collected from coronavirus patients in the state was missing a sizeable segment of genetic material. 

In the middle and late stages of the SARS epidemic of 2003, this very same kind of deletion started cropping up in patients around the globe. "

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22 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2370OQ

Looks like Mark's earlier post may have been missed by some. This is from Reuters so I assume it can be trusted. 

In fairness, somebody else found the original link, may have been sonyc or YF, wasn't me anyway, but always hopeful when news like this turns up

Edited by Mark .Y.
Spelling:(

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Yep, we know the virus will regularly mutate as it moves from person to person, often the mutations are insignificant but on the face of it the Italian story offers some encouragement.

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1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

In fairness, somebody else found the original link, may have been sonyc or YF, wasn't me anyway, but always hopeful when news like this turns up

Not me but anyway I would urge much caution on this anecdotal evidence.

It is thought likely that the virus just by natural selection would mutate into one more infectious but less deadly.

However, much like herd immunity, we can grasp at illusionary straws as we are all desperate for a 'get out of gaol free' card. Let's wait for better evidence before getting over optimistic-  and certainly it shouldn't change our policy at this stage at all!

Currently - I'm far far more concerned at the recent relaxation of the lockdown, Cummings 'law' and a laissez faire attitude that will almost guarantee a pickup in infections with inevitable consequences.

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Just out of interest, is there anyone here that has young children , that has sent their kids to school this morning? Or do you know people that have? 
 

If I had any, they certainly would not be going back. 

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52 minutes ago, ec-p said:

Just out of interest, is there anyone here that has young children , that has sent their kids to school this morning? Or do you know people that have? 
 

If I had any, they certainly would not be going back. 

Yes. They decided the risk of Infection was very low

Edited by Barbe bleu
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14 hours ago, Herman said:

New laws/regulations coming into force.

 

I hope this is just a joke, but it's pretty embarrassing for the guy who posted it IMO.  It's absolutely clear that if you meet up with anyone socially (who you don't live with) that's got to be outside and you have to stay 2m apart.  Also I think hairdressers aren't allowed to restart work yet, so why would "escorts" be any different ?

 

I can't imagine many people will actually change what they do based on this sort of twitter post, but right now I really think it's not helpful, next time I need to instruct a QC, I know one name I'll be avoiding !

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3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes. They decided the risk of Infection was very low

It's interesting isn't it. Yet MPs (as pointed out on the other thread) have yet to decide to take their seats.

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23 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

I hope this is just a joke, but it's pretty embarrassing for the guy who posted it IMO.  It's absolutely clear that if you meet up with anyone socially (who you don't live with) that's got to be outside and you have to stay 2m apart.  Also I think hairdressers aren't allowed to restart work yet, so why would "escorts" be any different ?

 

I can't imagine many people will actually change what they do based on this sort of twitter post, but right now I really think it's not helpful, next time I need to instruct a QC, I know one name I'll be avoiding !

They are new regs the government put out over the weekend. Are they clear? Not really. If you read through all of Adam Wagner's analysis they're not at all. 

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At this point in time I think it's important to say

We're still at level 4 on the alert scale, the same point we were at when it was introduced.

 

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I'm suffering with severe lockdown fatigue now, not helped in the least by photos from my family up in Norwich who had a nice get together and BBQ in the sunshine on Sunday when me and my wife have been self-isolating with our baby daughter for 3 months now and haven't seen another family member other than via video call. We live too far to just pop round for a visit, and we cant stay over as that's banned, and despite the fact that none of the family are high risk we still have to conform to these lockdown rules despite the fact that half the country seems to have just decided it's come to an unofficial end.

At end of tether now. Would rather be able to see and give my family a hug, have one day to revive some mental health and then go straight back into isolation. If I get sick I get sick. The toll it's taking on people emotionally and mentally to stay like this is intolerable.Humans were not made to be alone and separated like this for this length of time.

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1 hour ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I'm suffering with severe lockdown fatigue now, not helped in the least by photos from my family up in Norwich who had a nice get together and BBQ in the sunshine on Sunday when me and my wife have been self-isolating with our baby daughter for 3 months now and haven't seen another family member other than via video call. 

You'll not be the only one.  This virus isnt going away anytime soon but if we are sensible the risk of infection will be very low I am sure.

Family jumped the gun with the Su day BBQ by a day I see. I'll say nothing!

 

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6 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

At this point in time I think it's important to say

We're still at level 4 on the alert scale, the same point we were at when it was introduced.

 

From Twitter

Europe Covid deaths today

- United Kingdom 556

- Italy 60

- Belgium 19

- Portugal 14

- Poland 10

- Sweden 8

- Netherlands 6

- Germany 5

- Greece 4

- Denmark 2

- Hungary 1

 

Spot the problem?

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2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

You'll not be the only one.  This virus isnt going away anytime soon but if we are sensible the risk of infection will be very low I am sure.

Family jumped the gun with the Su day BBQ by a day I see. I'll say nothing!

 

Politically intended. Just another method the Government has of covering its options.

The R rate has gone up PM.

People didn't listen to me or read the small print he replies.

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