Corona Virus main thread

[Herman 9,694]

13 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I suspect that Prof Van-Tam won't be appearing in many more press conferences...…...last thing Boris needs is an academic with an opinion.

Britain's Dr Fauci.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Classic response from the dimmest light bulb on the South Coast.

I explained in detail above how a Personal Services Company (google it Einstein) would typically structure their accounts to minimise the tax liability. Read it and try and understand. That is why people pay accountants rather than rely on football message boards.

My accountant  is worth every cent I pay him. For the equivalent  of a couple of days earnings  all i have to do is keep my paperwork  in some form of decent order and he does the rest.  He has access to my bank account for business with the revenue  only, so once he has the numbers crunched, i just ring him and give him the ok to sort it with them. Couple of years back when i was very ill  , i fell behind with revenue  , he dealt with it , no fines , no late  fees.  It's much better for me to do what I'm good at and pay him to do what , to be honest is a minefield.  As a self employed  sole trader he saves me much more than he costs me. And he's  a good laugh. Wished I'd used  him since day one, I'd be much better off. 

[Van wink 2,994]

28 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I suspect that Prof Van-Tam won't be appearing in many more press conferences...…...last thing Boris needs is an academic with an opinion.

Love Van-Tam, I'm sure he will be back but maybe without the little box he stands on to look over the lecturn.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Old Jean Claude certainly put Dowden in a quandry. I bet young Oliver thought he was going to get away with a nice easy one tonight and then the Observer went and spoilt it.

Footies back chaps and a lot of it is on terrestrial. Going to go into great detail this spiffing news but not how the EPL is going to be spreading the money around the leagues I intimated at during my introduction.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Love Van-Tam, I'm sure he will be back but maybe without the little box he stands on to look over the lecturn.

Mrs KG and I did notice that and wondered if it would be Gove rather than stretch with him next. I would rather listen to him than all the others. They make a pants of it.

[Van wink 2,994]

58 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Can we look at this in a little more detail please?

I think that most of us will agree that we have had contact tracing mechanism set out for decades and people trained to do it.  I think all sensible.people realise that we put the system into action in the early days of covid.

I had assumed that when we are talking of a 'system' being set up I assumed a bigger scale, integrated and uniform system based on or running alongside what usually happens.

Are you saying that people whose day job involves contact tracing other  diseases are not already on covid watch?

Initially there was some contact tracing done by Public Health England. Not sure how much they used the DPH's at that point. DPH's have all been written to recently regarding local arrangements to deal with localised outbreaks.

Quite a few LA staff have also applied to be appointed as tier 2 clinical contact tracers, maybe a couple on here too!

Edited May 30, 2020 by Van wink

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Love Van-Tam, I'm sure he will be back but maybe without the little box he stands on to look over the lecturn.

Mrs KG and I did notice that and wondered if it would be Gove rather than stretch with him next. I would rather listen to him than all the others. They make a pants of it.

As opposed to "tearing the pants out of it" as Van Tam said tonight. 😀 He's good value to listen to.

[T 190]

58 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

We take these two things as read in all your posts. You could probably leave them out 

The simple truth doesn’t go away does it as much as you and others try to ignore and dismiss it because you don’t like and can’t accept the truth. It is about time that You and the public and the government needs to actually accept and deal with the truth rather than ignore and dismiss it then the truth no longer needs to be repeated because the Incompetence of the UK government and its supporters are still a deadly problem.  The UK has and is doing appallingly compared to Germany and yet people still seek to deny and ignore that with the awful consequences That really is a boring and deadly truth. It is is the apologists dismissers and deniers with their glib avoidance comments who are really boring

[nutty nigel 7,506]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

There are more fag packet accountants around than Nutty ever imagined.

But are they all members of...

👑The Chartered Guild of Fag Packet Accountants👑

[BigFish 1,986]

1 minute ago, Mark .Y. said:

So you dispute the actual numbers I put up do you ?

She was wong was't she.......... I don't care who she is, she chose to use the numbers to suit her personal viewpoint or she possibly didn't realise she'd made an error.

That's the truth isn't it ? You don't have to trust anybody's opinion at all, just look at the numbers, think for yourself, you don't need to be a sheep............ then explain to me where I have gone wrong...... 

She was wong??? No she wasn't wong (sic), it was part of a wider argument where the public health experts were laying out why the easing of lockdown is way too early. Still as one of the leading public health experts in the country what does she know compared to some bloke on a football message board. That you didn't know or care who she was when you posted tells its own story.

[Monty13 2,229]

16 minutes ago, T said:

The simple truth doesn’t go away does it as much as you and others try to ignore and dismiss it because you don’t like and can’t accept the truth. It is about time that You and the public and the government needs to actually accept and deal with the truth rather than ignore and dismiss it then the truth no longer needs to be repeated because the Incompetence of the UK government and its supporters are still a deadly problem.  The UK has and is doing appallingly compared to Germany and yet people still seek to deny and ignore that with the awful consequences That really is a boring and deadly truth. It is is the apologists dismissers and deniers with their glib avoidance comments who are really boring

Germany is the exception in this crisis of big Western countries, the fact is we aren’t doing as well as Germany and that is lamentable, but your assumptions are all based on a level playing field.

I’ve absolutely no doubt that some of the UK governments decisions have been and will be proved to have been poor. 

That said there’s massive variables between the UK and Germany. We have no idea how prevalent the virus was in both countries before the two countries reacted for a start. But even when it comes to response you assume all the options and resources available to Germany are exactly the same in the UK. I highly doubt that personally.

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 526]

23 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But are they all members of...

👑The Chartered Guild of Fag Packet Accountants👑

If that august body does not already exist then I am going to set it up.

[Bill 1,788]

To add to the growing number of failures we can now add that, as far a Greece is concerned, Britain is now a 'plague'island ie it's citizens aren't welcome as too many are deemed to be infected.

Still, I'm sure that once we achieve the 2,000 tests per day on 1st June as stated by Johnson we will soon be ok

And parallels for 1st July 2020 with 1st July 1916 - and words such as donkeys lied by liars; are unfair

I mean, Johnson has been doing his best, just as Billy Bunters attempt to smash the 4 minute mile would be him ..................... 'doing his best'

Johnson - Get him gone

Edited May 30, 2020 by Bill

[Barbe bleu 809]

36 minutes ago, T said:

The simple truth doesn’t go away does it as much as you and others try to ignore and dismiss it because you don’t like and can’t accept the truth. It is about time that You and the public and the government needs to actually accept and deal with the truth rather than ignore and dismiss it then the truth no longer needs to be repeated because the Incompetence of the UK government and its supporters are still a deadly problem.  The UK has and is doing appallingly compared to Germany and yet people still seek to deny and ignore that with the awful consequences That really is a boring and deadly truth. It is is the apologists dismissers and deniers with their glib avoidance comments who are really boring

Fair enough.  Why not set up a two standard paragraphs that you can copy and paste in? Probably save you a few minutes each day.  Start with the german experience, pit some bespoke text in the middle and end with the blame Brexit bit.  A sort of cut and paste german brexit sandwich if you will.

 

[T 190]

12 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Germany is the exception in this crisis of big Western countries, the fact is we aren’t doing as well as Germany and that is lamentable, but your assumptions are all based on a level playing field.

I’ve absolutely no doubt that some of the UK governments decisions have been and will be proved to have been poor. 

That said there’s massive variables between the UK and Germany. We have no idea how prevalent the virus was in both countries before the two countries reacted for a start. But even when it comes to response you assume all the options and resources available to Germany are exactly the same in the UK. I highly doubt that personally.

Germany is surrounded by hotspots. 48pc of all German cases have been traced back to Austrian apres  ski which was a super spreader for Europe. Germany was one of the first countries to experience significant cases from China before the UK due to close manufacturing contacts with China.  
 

I’d agree that it helps that Germany had over 5 times the ICUs and PPE stocks and that was a government decision but also Germany used the private ventilator testing and tracing capacity that it already had and expanded from it rather than the UK whole flawed approach of trying to build everything itself centrally from scratch rather than use develop and expand what was already available in UK and elsewhere.  Not an intelligent approach in a crisis. Poor preparation and poor execution in the UK and it just continues and will continue when you have incompetent Brexit ideologist leaders. Does any seriously think Boris is competent and Cummings is trustworthy? 
 

Others  may be happy to simply dismiss deny and make excuses for a government that has  an estimated 60000 excess deaths and one of the worst performance in the world  This is what you get with a brexit mentality and it needs to change if the UK is to realise the undoubted potential of its  people  

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

21 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Germany is the exception in this crisis of big Western countries, the fact is we aren’t doing as well as Germany and that is lamentable, but your assumptions are all based on a level playing field.

I’ve absolutely no doubt that some of the UK governments decisions have been and will be proved to have been poor. 

That said there’s massive variables between the UK and Germany. We have no idea how prevalent the virus was in both countries before the two countries reacted for a start. But even when it comes to response you assume all the options and resources available to Germany are exactly the same in the UK. I highly doubt that personally.

In hindsight with more evidence they are, and will, look 'poor'.

The real question though is how did they arrive at the various decisions, and who made them - what was their motivation, and of more concern their intent.

If Cummings was feeding various committees 'duff' information then any decision would be based on that info.

What decisions were made at Cobra when fat boy conveniently absented himself - just as he did for 12 days during the onset of this virus in February.

So is it case of Knave or Joker - or in fat boy's case a dangerous cocktail of both ?

Johnson - Get him gone

[BigFish 1,986]

Maybe this is why we are loosening lockdown?

[T 190]

9 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Fair enough.  Why not set up a two standard paragraphs that you can copy and paste in? Probably save you a few minutes each day.  Start with the german experience, pit some bespoke text in the middle and end with the blame Brexit bit.  A sort of cut and paste german brexit sandwich if you will.

 

Save me even more time if people like you wouldn’t seek to dismiss and make excuses for a government responsible for 60000 excess deaths and one of the worst death rates in the world. Clearly you think that is acceptable and glib remarks are a suffecient response to that. I don’t. 

[Bill 1,788]

A good article below

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/27/privatisation-uk-disatrous-coronavirus-response-ppe-care-homes-corporate-power-public-policy

one I expect the righties to refute, with fact based reasoned argument - not the usual righty 'master knows best' forelock tugging guff

so off you go righties - tell us how the dire shortage of PPE, health staff and facilities were not the inevitable consequences of a profit before people mentality

[BigFish 1,986]

1 minute ago, T said:

Save me even more time if people like you wouldn’t seek to dismiss and make excuses for a government responsible for 60000 excess deaths and one of the worst death rates in the world. Clearly you think that is acceptable and glib remarks are a suffecient response to that. I don’t. 

Well said. It doesn't matter to some that we entered this badly prepared, the government then handled it incompetently and are now being nakedly political on all decisions they are making. Their identity is wedded to the mindset, the culture and the lying windbag in a way that is like a cult. The evidence is there for all to see.

[Bill 1,788]

12 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Maybe this is why we are loosening lockdown?

No' that is in part that they are merely standing beside the open stable door,  telling us that it was their idea that the horse should leave the stable

The real difficulty and strain on the marginal lead (19 points clear 6th May) will be when they attempt to her kids back into schools in the coming weeks

Mind you, I expect Eton, Harrow and St Pauls to be the first ....................... 🙄

[Monty13 2,229]

5 minutes ago, T said:

Germany is surrounded by hotspots. 48pc of all German cases have been traced back to Austrian apres  ski which was a super spreader for Europe. Germany was one of the first countries to experience significant cases from China before the UK due to close manufacturing contacts with China.  
 

I’d agree that it helps that Germany had over 5 times the ICUs and PPE stocks and that was a government decision but also Germany used the private ventilator testing and tracing capacity that it already had and expanded from it rather than the UK whole flawed approach of trying to build everything itself centrally from scratch rather than use develop and expand what was already available in UK and elsewhere.  Not an intelligent approach in a crisis. Poor preparation and poor execution in the UK and it just continues and will continue when you have incompetent Brexit ideologist leaders. Does any seriously think Boris is competent and Cummings is trustworthy? 
 

Others  may be happy to simply dismiss deny and make excuses for a government that has  an estimated 60000 excess deaths and one of the worst performance in the world  This is what you get with a brexit mentality and it needs to change if the UK is to realise the undoubted potential of its  people  

 

 

Your post is just riddled with assumptions and that’s my point. Just a few examples.

”Germany is surrounded by hotspots” what does that even mean? What major influence does geography have in a globalised world? If it did as an island on the edge of Europe you’d expect us to have done way better regardless of handling. However where’s the busiest International Passenger Hub in Europe? London.

“Germany was one of the first countries to experience significant cases from China“ again no, it was the first to recognise the cases, we have no idea if it was the first to experience them n and absolutely no idea if it received more volume than others.

“the UK whole flawed approach of trying to build everything itself centrally from scratch rather than use develop and expand what was already available in UK and elsewhere”

Pretty sure we did try to maximise supplies and equipment from the U.K. and the problem with “elsewhere” when looking for supplies is you are not only competing with that country but every other one looking for it.

“Poor preparation and poor execution in the UK and it just continues and will continue when you have incompetent Brexit ideologist leaders.”

And this is the worst thing that actually gets my back up about your posts, leaders make the decisions, but the civil servants and public services are the ones working and enacting on them. 

Criticise the political decisions made by the government by all means, I’ll probably agree. But once the decisions have been made they aren’t the ones enacting them and you are basically criticising an entire countries worth of people working hard on this problem when you talk sh!t about the execution.

Your posts lack any objectivity, especially if you compare the UK to other major players other than Germany.

 

 

[Monty13 2,229]

35 minutes ago, Bill said:

In hindsight with more evidence they are, and will, look 'poor'.

The real question though is how did they arrive at the various decisions, and who made them - what was their motivation, and of more concern their intent.

If Cummings was feeding various committees 'duff' information then any decision would be based on that info.

What decisions were made at Cobra when fat boy conveniently absented himself - just as he did for 12 days during the onset of this virus in February.

So is it case of Knave or Joker - or in fat boy's case a dangerous cocktail of both ?

Johnson - Get him gone

By far the biggest mistake in my eyes was too much focus on the NHS and virtually nothing on care homes. We should have been wrapping them up in Bubble wrap not just waiting till the residents turned up in ICU.

[Mello Yello 2,273]

55 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Fair enough.  Why not set up a two standard paragraphs that you can copy and paste in? Probably save you a few minutes each day.  Start with the german experience, pit some bespoke text in the middle and end with the blame Brexit bit.  A sort of cut and paste german brexit sandwich if you will.

 

....und pommes frites mit mayo....Ja das ist gut!.....

Edited May 30, 2020 by Mello Yello

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

By far the biggest mistake in my eyes was too much focus on the NHS and virtually nothing on care homes. We should have been wrapping them up in Bubble wrap not just waiting till the residents turned up in ICU.

Don't forget the policy was also to empty hospitals of the elderly into care homes. Virtually playing Russian Roulette but with twice as many shells in the revolver.

[Bill 1,788]

Just now, Monty13 said:

By far the biggest mistake in my eyes was too much focus on the NHS and virtually nothing on care homes. We should have been wrapping them up in Bubble wrap not just waiting till the residents turned up in ICU.

Which I would suggest was the consequence of an underfunded health system. One that had long cut the ''care system' off from the main Health service - and dumped it on the private sector.

So the question remains - what was the cause of those now obvious mistakes ?

Incompetence or intent ?

Johnson - Get him gone

 

[Bill 1,788]

25 minutes ago, Bill said:

No' that is in part that they are merely standing beside the open stable door,  telling us that it was their idea that the horse should leave the stable

The real difficulty and strain on the marginal lead (19 points clear 6th May) will be when they attempt to her kids back into schools in the coming weeks

Mind you, I expect EA fuller explanation of how this has affect the poll ratings

ton, Harrow and St Pauls to be the first ....................... 🙄

A fuller explanation of how this has affected the Tories and Johnsons poll ratings

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/30/tory-poll-lead-collapses-as-voters-say-cummings-should-go

Now, we are all aware how fluid polls can be. However these figures are a sure rebuttal to the righties on here who said that this would all soon blow over

A week on and the effect is actually further depressing the above two's ratings - as it has been a rallying point for voters who have grown disenchanted with the lies and incompetence of those supposed to be running things.

At the moment the 'herd instinct' is those in government trying to keep up with the herd...the rest of us

And it maybe like Kettering Town FC appointing Gazza as their manager many now recognise the error of Johnsons appointment.

Johnson - Get him gone

 

[lake district canary 4,530]

Bill, much as I dislike the present state of the government and of having Johnson in charge,  your constant repeating "Johnson - Get him gone" is not acceptable.  He was elected with a huge majority in a democratic process and this is not the place to call for someone's head, whoever it is.  It is after all predominately a football forum and although we are allowed to discuss other things, it is not the place to start social media style political campaigns. 

Give your opinions, as you always do, however flawed, but stop the "Get him gone" stuff. It is out of place.

 

[Herman 9,694]

What about "Get Lost Fatty"?

[Barbe bleu 809]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Don't forget the policy was also to empty hospitals of the elderly into care homes. Virtually playing Russian Roulette but with twice as many shells in the revolver.

I'll agree with this.  Clearing the hospitals in preparation for a surge is both standard and sensible. Sending them to care homes without even giving a beat guess as to covid status does seem illogical. Especially if there are doubts about how well infection  control can be managed there

On a wider point how does our propensity to put the elderly in care homes compare to the rest of the Europe?   Is a lot of what we are seeing a structural issue?