Corona Virus main thread

[Van wink 2,994]

It’s going to be a lovely warm sunny weekend, get out and enjoy the sun but please observe the 2m rule, wear a face mask if you can’t and keep your hands clean. 🌕

[Mark .Y. 351]

10 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Our peak was a little more plateaued  than theirs  so maybe our tail out  will be a little higher due to extra infections  dispersed during that plateau. Have no evidence, seems common sense. 

Yes, I hadn't really paid attention to that but you might well be right there.

[Mark .Y. 351]

11 hours ago, Bill said:

ladies protesting too much

or how come it is always the same who seem to get themselves worked up about this 🙄

FFS Bill, lighten up. 

I made a little joke, you made a little joke in return and I gave you a "ha-ha" for it.

Just relax and enjoy yourself sometimes, you will feel so much better for it.

Love,

Your Psychiatrist 

x

[Herman 9,691]

4 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

FFS Bill, lighten up. 

I made a little joke, you made a little joke in return and I gave you a "ha-ha" for it.

Just relax and enjoy yourself sometimes, you will feel so much better for it.

Love,

Your Psychiatrist 

x

Plenty of overtime there. Double bubble.😀

[Herman 9,691]

8 hours ago, Van wink said:

I suspect BJ is still suffering from the longer term effects of having the virus

I think the forty odd years of his own self-importance, lying in tatters, is having a bigger effect on the lad.

[Mark .Y. 351]

12 hours ago, BigFish said:

Meanwhile, back to Covid.......

She's picking out discrete numbers to suit her viewpoint.

This week they are reflective of the BH weekend, if you take the last 4 days and compare them with the same 4 days last week, you get a reduction from 1597 to 1247 so actually a decrease of around 20% which has been a fairly consistent weekly theme for some time.

[king canary 7,558]

Can someone with more knowledge explain this Forgotten Ltd campaign I keep seeing?

As far as I can tell, people who chose to pay themselves in dividends to minimize how much tax they pay are now complaining their own actions have come back to bite them on the ****?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Can someone with more knowledge explain this Forgotten Ltd campaign I keep seeing?

As far as I can tell, people who chose to pay themselves in dividends to minimize how much tax they pay are now complaining their own actions have come back to bite them on the ****?

Ethics Canary should have some knowledge  of this.😉

[ricardo 7,328]

SAGE appear to have dithered badly with their advice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/sage-minutes-reveal-how-uk-advisers-reacted-to-coronavirus-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

[TIL 1010 4,717]

9 hours ago, Van wink said:

It’s going to be a lovely warm sunny weekend, get out and enjoy the sun but please observe the 2m rule, wear a face mask if you can’t and keep your hands clean. 🌕

Just checking the tyres and brakes on my bike winky before setting off.

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Can someone with more knowledge explain this Forgotten Ltd campaign I keep seeing?

As far as I can tell, people who chose to pay themselves in dividends to minimize how much tax they pay are now complaining their own actions have come back to bite them on the ****?

Many small or even 1 man companies may need the protections of Ltd. status and where income is erratic - startups and the like  the Directors may well pay themselves largely in dividends.

That generally means a very small monthly salary  (or non taken at all) and a significant payment when funds allow. Most monthly paid employees would hate it - how many months can you go without pay?

Yes historically it also saved significant tax (dividends were taxed much less or even 'tax' credits) but Hammond all but closed tha that loop hole.

Anybody getting paid by dividends today is basically paying same overall tax more or less as everybody else - and probably should expect the same protections.

I suspect the tax loopholes that now need closing are in the strangest of places  -  pensions, NI etc!

[Mark .Y. 351]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Many small or even 1 man companies may need the protections of Ltd. status and where income is erratic - startups and the like  the Directors may well pay themselves largely in dividends.

That generally means a very small monthly salary  (or non taken at all) and a significant payment when funds allow. Most monthly paid employees would hate it - how many months can you go without pay?

Yes historically it also saved significant tax (dividends were taxed much less or even 'tax' credits) but Hammond all but closed tha that loop hole.

Anybody getting paid by dividends today is basically paying same overall tax more or less as everybody else - and probably should expect the same protections.

I suspect the tax loopholes that now need closing are in the strangest of places  -  pensions, NI etc!

Dividends not subject to NI though, so there can be a significant saving.

[Badger 2,404]

16 hours ago, Surfer said:

but our comparison versus Germany, who are our natural economic and political competitor, is doubly shocking. 

I'm not really sure that we are a political and economic competitor to Germany? Our spheres tend to be different. We dominate in financial services, but they leave us behind in many aspects of manufacture + whilst we have more transatlantic influence (atm anyway) Germany has much more influence in Europe.

[king canary 7,558]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Many small or even 1 man companies may need the protections of Ltd. status and where income is erratic - startups and the like  the Directors may well pay themselves largely in dividends.

That generally means a very small monthly salary  (or non taken at all) and a significant payment when funds allow. Most monthly paid employees would hate it - how many months can you go without pay?

Yes historically it also saved significant tax (dividends were taxed much less or even 'tax' credits) but Hammond all but closed tha that loop hole.

Anybody getting paid by dividends today is basically paying same overall tax more or less as everybody else - and probably should expect the same protections.

I suspect the tax loopholes that now need closing are in the strangest of places  -  pensions, NI etc!

Thanks!

I used to work in recruitment and worked finding IT contractors for large banks- these guys almost all ran themselves as LTD and paid themselves dividends to avoid tax so my sympathy has been limited. However if those loop holes have been largely closed now then I do feel a bit more for them.

[Barbe bleu 809]

I'm lost.   I looked up dividend tax and .gov tells me that the rate is dependent on my income tax band:

 

Basic rate	7.5%
Higher rate	32.5%
Additional rate	38.

 If I pay myself to basic rate and no higher I pay no dividend tax on the first £2000 and 7.5% above that.   Compare this to 40%+ and NI.  

This does look like a pretty comfortable arrangement. Unless I am wrong my sympathies are very limited.

[Yellow Fever 3,732]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Thanks!

I used to work in recruitment and worked finding IT contractors for large banks- these guys almost all ran themselves as LTD and paid themselves dividends to avoid tax so my sympathy has been limited. However if those loop holes have been largely closed now then I do feel a bit more for them.

No worries - as Mark Y said there are (smaller) advantages but most I think would pay-themselves say  via PAYE 10K/year (to cover min NI contributions) and the rest in dividends / directors loans (which can mean you pay the company!). Dividends (which are of course personally taxable as above) are paid out of company profits - they themselves taxed as per corporation tax (taxed twice if you 'own' the company). 

So swings and roundabouts although I'm no accountant. Each case is different. I'm sure there are lots of companies that would love to pay all their employees just 10K/pa and then, and only if they return to profits a some 'bonus/dividend'!

Other obvious downsides - no regular significant salary - impacts mortgages and all other benefits including furlough today (and redundancy) ! 

As noted I suspect many a salaried 'cosy' employee in the UK would  'panic' at the thought of such an erratic scheme!  

[Barbe bleu 809]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

SAGE appear to have dithered badly with their advice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/29/sage-minutes-reveal-how-uk-advisers-reacted-to-coronavirus-crisis?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

Could explain why I am seeing  a lot of reports of individual SAGE members coming out saying the lockdown should not now be eased.

I've not analysed this but the advice and the measure do seem to be proximate (eg school closures recommended on 18 march and announced on  20th). 

 

[Barbe bleu 809]

12 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm lost.   I looked up dividend tax and .gov tells me that the rate is dependent on my income tax band:

 

Basic rate	7.5%
Higher rate	32.5%
Additional rate	38.

 If I pay myself to basic rate and no higher I pay no dividend tax on the first £2000 and 7.5% above that.   Compare this to 40%+ and NI.  

This does look like a pretty comfortable arrangement. Unless I am wrong my sympathies are very limited.

As YF does point out dividends come out of profit after deduction s and relief so subject to 19% corporation tax. 

Probably quite complex but still seems tax efficient to me.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

Most directors will take a dividend but it is a lot less tax efficient than it used to be . The band above which you pay tax has reduced and is now only £2k . It used to be  higher and that’s where the efficiencies came in . 
I would say most people have limited status to protect their personal assets rather than for tax efficient payment these days. 
 

I should add that you have to be a shareholding director of course ! 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Graham Paddons Beard

[sonyc 5,481]

Reading a lot about the new T and T system that is being implemented to control the virus and this view seems very representative. For those who do not wish to read, in a nutshell, the training is of very poor quality, put together with a considerable lack of depth and breadth (i.e. quickly) with little guidance and yet trainees are keen and enthusiastic to learn (at the start). Finally, the IT system works at best intermittently.

 

Why I quit working on Boris Johnson's ‘world-beating' test-and-tracing system

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/boris-johnsons-test-and-tracing-system-britain-lockdown?

[Barbe bleu 809]

Does it strike anyone as odd that this virus has made it to st pierre miquelon, anguilla, the falklands and new caledonia but it's only got to 7% of one of the worst hit and most densely populated countries on earth?

 

 

 

[Barbe bleu 809]

13 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Reading a lot about the new T and T system that is being implemented to control the virus and this view seems very representative. For those who do not wish to read, in a nutshell, the training is of very poor quality, put together with a considerable lack of depth and breadth (i.e. quickly) with little guidance and yet trainees are keen and enthusiastic to learn (at the start). Finally, the IT system works at best intermittently.

 

Why I quit working on Boris Johnson's ‘world-beating' test-and-tracing system

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/boris-johnsons-test-and-tracing-system-britain-lockdown?

I'd be interested to know what this job entails.

Perhaps I am naive but id have thought it quite a simple job of calling people up and taking further details so the next round of calls can  be made.

Even of it goes to  next step and the assistants feed directly into the link analysis and representation surely there is easy to use software into.which people can feed?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

4 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Just checking the tyres and brakes on my bike winky before setting off.

Have you done your cycling  proficiency  test Tillo?

[sonyc 5,481]

22 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'd be interested to know what this job entails.

Perhaps I am naive but id have thought it quite a simple job of calling people up and taking further details so the next round of calls can  be made.

Even of it goes to  next step and the assistants feed directly into the link analysis and representation surely there is easy to use software into.which people can feed?

Team leader role advert attached Bb. Gives a JD and PS link too (pdf's). This gives an idea I think of the kinds of issues.

I'm guessing there is a lot of emotional intelligence required in the role though.

Test and Trace Team Leader https://www.jobs.nhs.uk/xi/vacancy/916050029

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by sonyc

[BigFish 1,986]

3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm lost.   I looked up dividend tax and .gov tells me that the rate is dependent on my income tax band:

 

Basic rate	7.5%
Higher rate	32.5%
Additional rate	38.

 If I pay myself to basic rate and no higher I pay no dividend tax on the first £2000 and 7.5% above that.   Compare this to 40%+ and NI.  

This does look like a pretty comfortable arrangement. Unless I am wrong my sympathies are very limited.

You forget the contractor would have paid corporation tax of 19% on revenue less expenses.

My experience, and the advice of my accountant, both tell me it does save tax though.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Barbe, could you set up a new thread about Taxation please? This one has nothing to do with Covid19 and has been discussed endlessly on the Brexit thread.😉

[Barbe bleu 809]

I

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Barbe, could you set up a new thread about Taxation please? This one has nothing to do with Covid19 and has been discussed endlessly on the Brexit thread.😉

Sure, after 5 days and approximately 100 posts repeating the same thing I'll do that.😉

But it might take someone saying that they wanted to talk about taxation without mention of deaths to do it.   Safe space and all that...

Edited May 30, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The R rate has hit 0.9 in Cornwall, one of the least populated areas of the country. 

Until the good weather when every man and his dog drives down here.

After Hancock's idea about localised lockdowns, I can see Cornwall being shut back down again.

[Aggy 747]

49 minutes ago, BigFish said:

You forget the contractor would have paid corporation tax of 19% on revenue less expenses.

My experience, and the advice of my accountant, both tell me it does save tax though.

Very back of a fag packet stuff here (and I’m not an accountant and haven’t got any experience of the dividend route) but I reckon if you had 65k going through either PAYE or going through your company and being paid to you as dividends you’d end up with:

Dividend route : 12,350 corporation tax, and 4,461.25 dividend tax. Total tax = 16,811.25 and take home = 48,188.75

PAYE route = 13,500 income tax and 5,160 national insurance. Total tax and NI = 18,660, take home = 46,340.

The company could probably put through some expenses to reduce corporation tax exposure (although reducing profit for dividends?) , but the shareholder isn’t getting any employer pension contribution for instance. If the PAYE employee is putting in a pension contribution pre-tax, and also getting an employer contribution on top, then in the long run I doubt there’s that much difference either in ultimate tax paid or take home + pension pot. If the ltd company is paying a salary of c.10k and the rest in dividends I can’t be bothered to work it out but doubt it changes too much. 

[Indy 3,283]

4 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Very back of a fag packet stuff here (and I’m not an accountant and haven’t got any experience of the dividend route) but I reckon if you had 65k going through either PAYE or going through your company and being paid to you as dividends you’d end up with:

Dividend route : 12,350 corporation tax, and 4,461.25 dividend tax. Total tax = 16,811.25 and take home = 48,188.75

PAYE route = 13,500 income tax and 5,160 national insurance. Total tax and NI = 18,660, take home = 46,340.

The company could probably put through some expenses to reduce corporation tax exposure (although reducing profit for dividends?) , but the shareholder isn’t getting any employer pension contribution for instance. If the PAYE employee is putting in a pension contribution pre-tax, and also getting an employer contribution on top, then in the long run I doubt there’s that much difference either in ultimate tax paid or take home + pension pot. If the ltd company is paying a salary of c.10k and the rest in dividends I can’t be bothered to work it out but doubt it changes too much. 

Don’t forget you don’t get company Pension contributions by owning your own company, then bills like rent, insurance, rates, all come from profits so even before you start that 65k is actually down by 7k.