Corona Virus main thread

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

La reve de Bagster,

Comme une chanson de Piaf,

La vie en Pourpre.

5/7/5.

 

Unaccountably.
But serendipitously.
I started something.🤓

[Bagster 101]

Barely human , less than human

Now your nit picking

If I've done something terrible, I am sure I will get a ban

Maybe you should though, as calling someone barely human has got to be close to hate speech.

Dehumanising people is what happened in the 30's

 

[Crabbycanary3 994]

29 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Barely human , less than human

Now your nit picking

If I've done something terrible, I am sure I will get a ban

Maybe you should though, as calling someone barely human has got to be close to hate speech.

Dehumanising people is what happened in the 30's

 

It's;

Now you're nit picking..............

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Bagster said:

Whenever you find yourself in a large majority the first thing you should do is question yourself 

Just like  Boris and Cummins do?  Yeah right. 

[ron obvious 1,498]

Word of the week: Exit

Andy Shaw

 

29 MAY 2020

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Definition:

A way out (from confinement, usually of prisoners restricted to their cells)

Derivation:

On behalf of the government, Dominic Cummings drove to Barnard castle to test procedures for exiting the lockdown. Like Dr. Jonas Salk – who discovered a potential vaccine for polio by testing it on himself and his entire family – Classic Dom took a test drive on behalf of us all. He discovered that it is safe to go outside, that cars still work and, shockingly, that it is still possible to use your own judgement.

Following the Barnard Castle experiment, the government is hoping to ease restrictions, to exit the lockdown. However, the government has scared much of the population and many are anxious about returning to normal life. Some have demanded that the government issues detailed instructions on how to perform everyday tasks. A sizeable minority secretly love the lockdown and want us to stay in it forever.

 

Curtain twitchers

Residents who keep an eye on local ‘comings and goings’, or relish in gossip, used to be viewed as petty-minded. Since lockdown, ‘curtain twitchers’ have been thrust into the frontline of community policing – they have become ‘key watchers’. Acting as the eyes and ears of police and council officials, they have played a valuable role, by informing on neighbours who receive visitors, by sniffing out the source of barbeque smoke and by denouncing mothers who leave their children with friends, on their way to work. Weekly registers have been maintained, noting the attendance of each neighbour at the Thursday NHS clapping sessions and the level of enthusiasm displayed has been carefully noted. It is rumoured that ‘key watchers’ have offered their services for ongoing community monitoring.

Goths

Goths don’t like mixing with people, they live indoors, have a gloomy outlook and harbour a brooding sense of the coming apocalypse. They have been pleasantly surprised that the world has recently adopted their way of life. Although Goths have maintained their miserable demeanour, they are secretly delighted at our current circumstances and have covertly enjoyed being back in fashion.

TV Journalists

TV journalists used to complain that viewing figures were in decline and that people get more of their news from social media. However, millions are now watching the Daily Briefing and journalists have something to talk about. TV journalism has regained a sense of mission and purpose. Journalists feel a deep sense of camaraderie and they have started to operate in gangs, focusing on one issue at a time, in unison – PPE, ventilators, daily death figures. Journalists are working so closely together that they have developed a collective, singular outlook. The revelation that Dominic Cummings drove his car has enabled TV journalists to morph into a unified and highly motivated pack. Those who flout the rules should live in fear not only of the police but of the media mob.

Anxious parents

All parents worry about their children, but some parents have made a profession out of it. They worry about feeding the right food to their kids, about the changing climate, about kids walking to school and playing out on their own. Some parents worry so much, they fear that their kids will be damaged by their own anxious parenting, so they mix with other parents who confirm their anxieties on WhatsApp and MumsNet. The Covid-19 outbreak finally gave them something real to worry about and they feel vindicated. Anxious parents are now setting up petitions to demand that schools stay closed and children stay cocooned in the safety of their anxiety bubble.

Use:

“You can exit lockdown now. Oh dear, I think you’ve developed Stockholm Syndrome.”

 

[Aggy 750]

So what you’re saying Ron is that people should use their own judgment as to whether or not they bother complying with the law? 

[Aggy 750]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

It just waiting for us to drop our guard - see S.korea. Lots of fresh victims.

To put further context on to the South Korea stats, there have been 79 “fresh victims” in 24 hours. 177 over the last three days (59 a day).

If we assume a 5 per cent death rate (and it’s looking closer to 1) then that means there are 3.2 deaths a day (if 1 per cent it’s 0.8 deaths a day). In a country with a population of 51.5 million.

Apparently in 2017 there were 6,040 deaths from road accidents in South Korea. That’s almost 17 a day. 
 

 

[kick it off 1,948]

4 hours ago, Bagster said:

I apologise whenever If I feel I've done something wrong, I don't feel I have.

My point was that in the 30's a minority whipped up hate in the majority to attack another minority.

Whenever you find yourself in a large majority the first thing you should do is question yourself 

Now you might feel Dominic Cummings is less than human, as one of your side has described him and therefore it is fine to shout at him in the street, to harass him , make up fake news stories about him. I personally see that as bullying with intimidation

So sorry but I'm not sorry for the comment and I haven't been banned yet so stop your virtue signalling.

Maybe you should go on another thread and spew your hate for Liverpool and Ipswich 😉

My grandfather's dad and brother were made to dig their own graves before being executed in the town square for literally no reason. His other brother suffered the same fate for being part of the resistance. My grandfather was put in a concentration camp because he was influential in his village and the Nazis worried he could lead an uprising... You think it’s fine to make light of that yet you’re crying because Dominic Cummings has had a few things shouted at him in the street because he broke the law?

No-one said your opinion was not allowed, it’s nothing to do with minority opinion. You can communicate that opinion perfectly well without making jokes about gas chambers. That is the issue here.

Just so we are clear, it's not virtue signalling when you make light hearted comments about an issue that involved the deaths of 7 members of my family.....you’re a total **** of the highest order and your moral compass is way off base.

Edited May 29, 2020 by kick it off

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

16 minutes ago, Aggy said:

To put further context on to the South Korea stats, there have been 79 “fresh victims” in 24 hours. 177 over the last three days (59 a day).

If we assume a 5 per cent death rate (and it’s looking closer to 1) then that means there are 3.2 deaths a day (if 1 per cent it’s 0.8 deaths a day). In a country with a population of 51.5 million.

Apparently in 2017 there were 6,040 deaths from road accidents in South Korea. That’s almost 17 a day. 
 

 

Aggy it's not the current numbers  - it's the speed with which it can suddenly reappear forcing the Koreans into fresh restrictions. It hasn't 'gone away' as some would like but more held at bay.

[Badger 2,405]

On 28/05/2020 at 10:53, Van wink said:

To disregard the rules using Cummings as an excuse puts people in the same stable as him. 

Agree completely, but I still think that it will happen with some I'm afraid. 😩

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree completely, but I still think that it will happen with some I'm afraid. 😩

Thats the problem with  being a leader, you must behave in a manner commensurate with your position, unfortunately the 'leader of the free world' has set exceptionally low standards.....and has consistently failed to achieve them. 

No wonder the budget version we have inpower in the UK follow suit.

[ron obvious 1,498]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

So what you’re saying Ron is that people should use their own judgment as to whether or not they bother complying with the law? 

Where did I say that?

What I would say is that people will do that - are doing that - all the time. It's rather like obeying the speed limit.

 

[Herman 9,710]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

I notice no-one commented about the potential reasons that the Cummings scandal was carrying on (because it creates a massive distraction for other things to happen in this pandemic). And, because of social distancing, WR Mogg is now restricting parliament to 50 MPs only and even the digital scrutiny is to be removed. Effectively, business will be decided by 50 out of 650 MPs. This harks back to the 1930s in Germany.

Do folk have a view on this? I realise the pandemic is forcing changes but could parliament not meet elsewhere and we protect democratic processes?

This issue seems to me of massive significance.

As has been mentioned before populists and demagogues are going to use this disaster to their advantage. They are already sneaking in laws here. Orban the same. And trump of course. 

This move by Rees-Mogg is just a small example that they want to stop any scrutiny of their shoddy behaviour. 

 

[Aggy 750]

52 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Aggy it's not the current numbers  - it's the speed with which it can suddenly reappear forcing the Koreans into fresh restrictions. It hasn't 'gone away' as some would like but more held at bay.

Yes but my point is that despite the speed you refer to, only 79 people were infected two days ago. Back down to 58 yesterday. At its worst they had over 1000 new infections a day. 

So the “second wave” might well be something to fear but if the extent of it is to fluctuate between 50 and to 80 infections (not deaths) a day out of a population of over 50 mil then I think it’s something we can live with.

I’d also argue that when you’re looking at double-digit-only numbers , jumps don’t necessarily mean there’s a second wave anyway. A jump from 30 to 80 might be a big percentage jump, but it’s 50 people. Again, infections not deaths here. That could just be because more people were tested that day or just one of those anomalies. A jump from 30 to 300 would be more concerning, especially if it stayed at 300 for a second and third day.

There were 39 new infections on 9 May, 35 on the 10th. It stayed above 25 until the 14th May. It dropped to 19 on the 15th. Stayed in the low teens until jumped back to 32 on the 19th. Dropped back down to the teens until there were 40 on the 26th May (only 1 more than on the 9 May), 79 on the 27th and down to 58 on the 28th.

My main point being I’m not sure South Korea is really proving the point you’re trying to make.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Aggy

[Aggy 750]

7 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Where did I say that?

What I would say is that people will do that - are doing that - all the time. It's rather like obeying the speed limit.

 

Didn’t say you had said anything, that’s why there was a question mark at the end of my sentence.

You did though post an article which said DC’s trip to BC was just him exercising his own judgment and suggested that was fine. Hence my clarifying question.

As for your last paragraph, I’ll remember to use that as an excuse if I’m ever doing 50 in a 30 zone and end up hitting a young child. ‘People do it all the time so just let me go, m’lord’. Bizarre argument. 

[Barbe bleu 812]

Everytime someone tries to break free of the Cummings issue they get dragged straight back in again. I suspect cummings has his own gravity field.

I'll check in again tomorrow 

[Van wink 2,994]

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[Herman 9,710]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Everytime someone tries to break free of the Cummings issue they get dragged straight back in again. I suspect cummings has his own gravity field.

I'll check in again tomorrow 

It shouldn't be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to be. Hold them to account. 

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Yes but my point is that despite the speed you refer to, only 79 people were infected two days ago. Back down to 58 yesterday. At its worst they had over 1000 new infections a day. 

So the “second wave” might well be something to fear but if the extent of it is to fluctuate between 50 and to 80 infections (not deaths) a day out of a population of over 50 mil then I think it’s something we can live with.

I’d also argue that when you’re looking at double-digit-only numbers , jumps don’t necessarily mean there’s a second wave anyway. A jump from 30 to 80 might be a big percentage jump, but it’s 50 people. Again, infections not deaths here. That could just be because more people were tested that day or just one of those anomalies. A jump from 30 to 300 would be more concerning, especially if it stayed at 300 for a second and third day.

There were 39 new infections on 9 May, 35 on the 10th. It stayed above 25 until the 14th May. It dropped to 19 on the 15th. Stayed in the low teens until jumped back to 32 on the 19th. Dropped back down to the teens until there were 40 on the 26th May (only 1 more than on the 9 May), 79 on the 27th and down to 58 on the 28th.

My main point being I’m not sure South Korea is really proving the point you’re trying to make.

Thing is though South Korea had a really low infection rate, our is around 8000 a day, Our level of community infection is much higher which makes it much more likely that loosening restrictions will lead to many many more cases.

I am really worried that we are going to see things become pretty bad here again, hope and pray I’m wrong. It may even be the only way to reign in complacency.

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, Herman said:

It shouldn't be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to be. Hold them to account. 

No it shouldn’t but by hogging the agenda it’s preventing crucial public health messages getting out.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Van wink

[Aggy 750]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Thing is though South Korea had a really low infection rate, our is around 8000 a day, Our level of community infection is much higher which makes it much more likely that loosening restrictions will lead to many many more cases.

I am really worried that we are going to see things become pretty bad here again, hope and pray I’m wrong. It may even be the only way to reign in complacency.

As I said in my post above, yes, a second wave could turn out to be a very real issue. 

But the S. Korea stats shouldn’t be used for scaremongering. As I’ve said, despite the “second wave” there, you’re still four times more likely to die in a car crash there than you are from coronavirus. The South Korea figures are so small in the first place that any jump looks worrying - but in reality a jump of 50 new recorded infections doesn’t mean there’s a full blown second break out. As can be seen by the fact it’s dropped back down again by 20 the day after.

[ron obvious 1,498]

23 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Didn’t say you had said anything, that’s why there was a question mark at the end of my sentence.

You did though post an article which said DC’s trip to BC was just him exercising his own judgment and suggested that was fine. Hence my clarifying question.

As for your last paragraph, I’ll remember to use that as an excuse if I’m ever doing 50 in a 30 zone and end up hitting a young child. ‘People do it all the time so just let me go, m’lord’. Bizarre argument. 

For God's sake where did I say ignoring speed limits was OK?? That it could be used as an excuse?????????????

I said IT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO!!!

Never broken the speed limit yourself? Never been on a motorway doing 70 mph & watched as the cars sail past??

As for Cummings, the only argument I would make is that the self-righteous, hypocritical condemnation of his actions is out of proportion to his guilt.

 

https://unherd.com/2020/05/theres-nothing-brave-about-the-bullying-bishops/

[A Load of Squit 5,116]

WTF is going on?

 

[Aggy 750]

5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

For God's sake where did I say ignoring speed limits was OK?? That it could be used as an excuse?????????????

I said IT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO!!!

Never broken the speed limit yourself? Never been on a motorway doing 70 mph & watched as the cars sail past??

As for Cummings, the only argument I would make is that the self-righteous, hypocritical condemnation of his actions is out of proportion to his guilt.

 

https://unherd.com/2020/05/theres-nothing-brave-about-the-bullying-bishops/

Sorry so what was the point you were making? 

Are you saying using your own judgment as to whether or not to break the law is ok? Or not? Because if not, that seems to contradict the article you posted, which said Cummings was exercising his personal judgment and ridiculed people who think DC’s exercise of his judgment was morally (and legally) wrong.

I had assumed you posted the article because you agreed with it. But perhaps you posted it to show how ridiculous some of the defences of Cummings are, in which case I apologise for misunderstanding your intention.

[Mello Yello 2,277]

57 minutes ago, Herman said:

As has been mentioned before populists and demagogues are going to use this disaster to their advantage. They are already sneaking in laws here. Orban the same. And trump of course. 

This move by Rees-Mogg is just a small example that they want to stop any scrutiny of their shoddy behaviour. 

 

Oh yeah cynical politics....and a bit like that Labour Aide Jo Moore's "A good day to bury bad news" crass comment after the horrendous attacks of 9/11......all those years ago.....

[Mello Yello 2,277]

27 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

For God's sake where did I say ignoring speed limits was OK?? That it could be used as an excuse?????????????

I said IT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO!!!

Never broken the speed limit yourself? Never been on a motorway doing 70 mph & watched as the cars sail past??

As for Cummings, the only argument I would make is that the self-righteous, hypocritical condemnation of his actions is out of proportion to his guilt.

 

https://unherd.com/2020/05/theres-nothing-brave-about-the-bullying-bishops/

Let's not beat about the bush....It's the lib/labs, lefties, momentumeers, commies and remoaners current moment to get their pound of flesh after still smarting from Brexit and the General Election....DC and many others have continually been in their turgid telescopic cross-hair sights - and they're pulling out all the stops to get their long awaited pound o' flesh.....They'll be calling and insisting the BBC are politically impartial next....

[Barbe bleu 812]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

It shouldn't be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to be. Hold them to account. 

Schools, south america, shops, private gatherings  for up to 6, south korea, vaccines.  Life and death stuff

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[ron obvious 1,498]

38 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Sorry so what was the point you were making? 

Are you saying using your own judgment as to whether or not to break the law is ok? Or not? Because if not, that seems to contradict the article you posted, which said Cummings was exercising his personal judgment and ridiculed people who think DC’s exercise of his judgment was morally (and legally) wrong.

I had assumed you posted the article because you agreed with it. But perhaps you posted it to show how ridiculous some of the defences of Cummings are, in which case I apologise for misunderstanding your intention.

If you're referring to the lockdown article I wasn't making a 'point'. I wasn't ridiculing anyone, just found it amusing.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

But surely if the driver you are referring to Barbe, had been sacked or apologised, then it wouldn't be important anymore, just history.

[sonyc 5,489]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

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Are you taking Haiku to the next level VW? 🙂 Respect