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1 hour ago, Mark .Y. said:

Thought this made a very good read in case anybody missed it.

The effects the virus can have when it really gets hold of somebody :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52760992

Many thanks for that. A really informative article. It sounds rather like a form of sepsis (as I understand it) in the way the body's immune system goes haywire. Proper science is our only way out of it, & unfortunately proper science takes time as it has to be thorough.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

The Daily Star has a great front page today. And the Borisgraph is now laying the boot in. 

This is the best front page from a newspaper ever. Never expected it to come from the Daily Star.

The mask is genius.

And we've reached our own 'Don't drink bleach' moment.

image.png.35dacf297545beae1c9360d98caa042d.png

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Anybody know what time the Commons Liaison Committee is? 

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

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6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

The number of questions has been truncated. Access to the party's own members also has been restricted. Scrutiny on both will be quite limited. New chair role (Jenkins) questioned. All these stories have been widely reported in the last few days. Scrutiny will be very minimal I believe. 

Edited by sonyc

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6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

It’s 4.00 till 5.30 for those that are interested, BJ to be questioned on pandemic and Dom.

Lets hope he does better than this.

 

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20 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

Bloody hell. What sort of scum votes for worse food for their citizens?

 

That is purely rhetorical. 

 

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8 hours ago, sonyc said:

A possible better scenario predicted for the economy but then the retail sector faces a fight for survival once re-opened.

 

UK recession may not be as bad as feared, says Bank of England economist

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/26/uk-recession-bank-of-england-economist-andy-haldane?

 

Retail has been facing a fight for survival for years. My guess would be that most of those retailers adapting and  modernising before coronavirus will survive it and continue to do so after, but it will speed up the end of any retailers who were already struggling.

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29 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

There were figures from (I think) Iceland which tallied up with those sort of findings. That was done on a pretty small percentage of their population but hopefully if we’re seeing similar in other places it will be a similar amount across the wider public too.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Bloody hell. What sort of scum votes for worse food for their citizens?

 

That is purely rhetorical. 

 

There was another article but the site has seemed to have been taken down! The gist is that whilst the country is being outraged, votes are going through on lots of big stuff (and with less scrutiny of course because business is emote at present). The agricultural story is massive Herman. Sales of agricultural land to property developers? Lowering of food standards? UK/USA trade deals?

 

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20 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Retail has been facing a fight for survival for years. My guess would be that most of those retailers adapting and  modernising before coronavirus will survive it and continue to do so after, but it will speed up the end of any retailers who were already struggling.

Agree. There are reports of massive sales (70% off) coming as the big shops try and cover costs. 

You wonder what the appetite will be for shopping as the lockdown eases or whether shoppers will be wary?

Edited by sonyc

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22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

There was another article but the site has seemed to have been taken down! The gist is that whilst the country is being outraged, votes are going through on lots of big stuff (and with less scrutiny of course because business is emote at present). The agricultural story is massive Herman. Sales of agricultural land to property developers? Lowering of food standards? UK/USA trade deals?

 

There's going to be a lot of farmers ruing the day they put up placards on their land. I should be wallowing in schadenfreude but it is rather sad and inevitable. 

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

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6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

You're correct, it is a Brexit story but they'll use Covid19 as the excuse, they'll be using Covid19 as the excuse for a lot of thier failings.

"We had to do this insert really crap bit of news here as we need to get on and recover after the global pandemic" is the only briefing paper that they need to give ministers. 🙂

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33 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No surprise SonyC - I had twigged that Truss etc was 'negotiating' in the US (hence the Huawei double take as well).

It's really a Brexit story - but I guess the farmers (or the small scales ones anyay) will get what they voted for - much the same as the fishermen - global competition and few safeguards.  Lemmings is the appropriate word.

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about where this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

Edited by sonyc
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16 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about what this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

I think the Cummings fiasco is far from planned. It makes Johnson look a weak and ineffective leader - a gullible fool no less (no surprise there) and so was hardly intended. The 'Rose' garden may of been for practical reasons although as the joke goes it does show who's the real (unelected) boss - Cummings not Johnson ! The 'cabinet' ministers let alone MPs are quite dispensable. 

Finally - never let a good crisis go to waste - so yes I'm sure a lot of uncomfortable things will happen in the shadows. Reality will bite as with the farmers above. How sad. Nevermind.  

Edited by Yellow Fever

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"If the government is starting to say that we can interpret the law with our own judgement, that has enormous implications for the law in general.

"What I'm hearing is that the government isn't on the same page as the rest of them."

Sadly that message reinforces the feeling that we're operating on different sets of values

Hancock's respected man of the cloth more or less saying that the feeling isn't mutual. I guess he thought believing this shower respects the law is like believing in Santa.

Repeatedly told for the last three years to respect the majority which of course has happened. Overwhelming public feeling that Cummings should go but a very select few do not believe in that. I can understand if Boris wants to keep him. So pay his wages out of your own pocket PM and he will be your employee.

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2 hours ago, Van wink said:

Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

So none has symptoms when the cruise departed and were all isolated as soon as it became clear that the virus was on board. 

For over half of those onboard to become sick over he course of a 21 day cruise shows at least one of the following: that the R0 is massive  that distancing measures really dont work that well or that temperature scanning is useless. 

 

Implications for us?

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37 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It is in part I agree. Yet, I have been wondering about that DC interview much more. I have now wondered if him taking the rose garden (such an unprecedented event) as a SPAD, what he was doing was making the story about himself, taking the focus, being controversial. In so doing, the world watches and gets annoyed. It's chaos. And you get things done in chaos. 

The whole choreography of it was very interesting. More, in some respects than what happened. Almost like it forces one to concentrate on something but real stories are happening elsewhere? I really don't know. Something just feels out of place.

The pandemic has meant far less scrutiny is going on. And for me on this thread, this is a proper subject and it IS a very valid debate as it's about where this national crisis might be heading, economically and societally. You cannot simply ignore things like this. 

I think you are right. Is it believable that Cummings would leave London and the seat of government, at a time when the country was in crisis and the Leader may have been dying, just on a whim? He served no purpose other than being a chauffeur? Pull the other one. He was needed in London at that time, in case an emergency broke.

If he went up North to hide himself away and work on something strategic in peace, undisturbed and in isolation, Johnson will have known and it would reinforce Johnson's reason for continuing to back him. We all know that at times you just have to tuck yourself away undisturbed to get something done.

As for the Rose Garden production I could only bring myself to watch it once, but I got the distinct impression that he had been mentored to smile at interviewers as they walked across, but only remembered to do it twice. It sort of tells you how false the whole thing was. Also, watch his hands. He was exhibiting 'displacement' almost throughout. Ministers, Raab, Hancock etc., are actually trained to be very polished in comparison. 

Other than that....well, those yellow azaleas were nice.

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On 25/05/2020 at 16:02, PurpleCanary said:

He needs to change the habit of a lifetime and be apologetic, and he needs to answer every question fully and truthfully. If he does that then the government can move on to what is important, which is the fight against the virus. If he ducks a question and/or is later shown to have lied then this will just rumble on.

He couldn't, he wasn't, and he didn't.

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

I thought this might explain the rank chicken that we bought in Morrisons a few weeks ago but I see that this still has to be passed in the House of Lords.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

 

I thought this might explain the rank chicken that we bought in Morrisons a few weeks ago but I see that this still has to be passed in the House of Lords.

But if it was chlorinated it would have lasted longer😐

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4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

But if it was chlorinated it would have lasted longer😐

It was horrible-felt like it had been frozen and had not been properly defrosted as it was very hard, even when cooked.

I'm sure chlorination would have improved it no end-from my memory of chemistry lessons, isn't chlorine yellow? Would chlorinated chicken look like organic corn-fed chicken? 🤮

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38 minutes ago, sonyc said:

But if it was chlorinated it would have lasted longer😐

I always wash my chicken in chlorinated water to get that authentic down south flavour

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The obsession this world has with meat and chicken in particular is frightening.

I do eat meat but could live without it. And if meat is comparably cheap as chicken certainly is then there must be some reason. And we all know how most of them are produced. I do not wish to eat chicken that has Cl as part of its ingredients.

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19 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I have a suggestion. That you stop posting your opinions as fact.

You don't have to take my word for it that it is a fact that he broke lockdown rules, and not just once but three times:

'Having watched the broadcast yesterday, my own view is that what he did was a clear breach of the lockdown rules – coming back into work when he had been with his wife who was ill, driving to Durham instead of staying at home and visiting Barnard Castle. These were clearly mistakes – both in terms of the guidance which was crystal clear, and in terms of the signal it would potentially give out to others as someone who was at the centre of government.' 

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7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The obsession this world has with meat and chicken in particular is frightening.

I do eat meat but could live without it. And if meat is comparably cheap as chicken certainly is then there must be some reason. And we all know how most of them are produced. I do not wish to eat chicken that has Cl as part of its ingredients.

I think that’s the thing KG, we’re all free to buy chicken or any meat from local butchers without CI, Free range growers, you might pay a little more, for others who aren’t fussed have a choice too.

Its like eating chocolate, we know it’s not healthy for you but it’s your choice.

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14 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I always wash my chicken in chlorinated water to get that authentic down south flavour

And I’ve read on a Trump tweet chlorinated chicken protects you from Covid 19.

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11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I always wash my chicken in chlorinated water to get that authentic down south flavour

Lowering food standards to get a trade deal though may tarnish the taste (when you know what's in it!)

 

Seriously, it's quite a story I think that will develop after June 30th. Not sure how farmers will respond but you'd think areas like Norfolk and Lincolnshire will be affected. Or maybe they have an opportunity?

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