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Tonight's contestants on Mr and Mrs are...

Mary and Dominic from North London (and Cumbria)

'We asked Mary what her recollections of Friday 27th were

she said " “That evening as I lay on the sofa, .........he would have to come home.”

you said you were already home

 

Mary said "“day six is a turning point”, when her husband was having such difficulty breathing that she feared he should be in hospital.

Dominic claimed that 'the following day he was well enough to drive to hospital to pick up their son'

 

Mary referred to her own headaches, others’ “numbness in their fingertips”, and Cummings’ “spasms”. No mention, though, of problems with her husband’s eyesight.

Dominic "said he had taken his wife and son “for a short drive” on Easter Sunday – Wakefield’s birthday – “to see if I could drive safely”

 

Come back for part two when we will investigate

"Cummings also said the family went to the “outskirts” of Barnard Castle. But the location where they were seen, next to the River Tees between Ullathorne Rise and Gill Lane, is on the far side of the town from the Cummings family property, and is close to a considerable number of homes.

Why did they end up there on a drive designed simply to test whether it was safe for him to take the wheel?"

 

Edited by Bill

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5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Is agree with you on this.  David Cameron was the same.  Wanted the prestige but hadn't really thought beyond that. No vision or philosophy behind it.

I wonder what he thought about shops reopening and what his plans for pubs would have been.  Any thoughts?

He would only allow Big John's Big Shed Shop on the Abingdon Road and the Plough Inn to open.

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Just now, Barbe bleu said:

We havent discussed this before.  PTSD is a very big deal in some professions and rightly so but generally it's in terms of threats to their life and not to the lives of others.   It also can come many years after the event

Interesting and important point and good on you for raising it. 

 

 

It's a major issue for members of the police to deal with, following up on serious crimes and domestic issues. And it's not straightforward dealing with PTSD because it often manifests with anxiety disorders and depression.

I would expect we will hear much more about NHS staff and how they are affected in the months to come. They have not only dealt with what they've had to do but also they've been right in the national headlights, so to speak. More than ever, they've been politicised of course. This conflicts so much with their clinical focus and medical ethics. So, there are also issues of 'identity' you might say.

When people move away from the coalface and try and make sense of it all, the meaning of things starts to hit home. Often delayed of course (like the grief cycle, where people sometimes do not process things at the time).

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

He would only allow Big John's Big Shed Shop on the Abingdon Road and the Plough Inn to open.

Surely Specsavers and Vision Express?

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7 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Surely Specsavers and Vision Express?

Dom was driving for hours trying to find one open......apparently

 

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7 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Imagine being such a fckwit that you believe Cummings’ pathetic excuses. Watch the press conference. He struggled to convincingly answer any of the questions without looking completely making it up as he went along. Rabbit in the headlights. 

So you are condemning him and also condemning anyone who tries to understand the situation a bit more.  It's verging on lynch mob mentality and that is just ugly.  Have a go at trying to understand the backstory and how much might be true, how much might be lies and how much might be slight bending of the truth to make things look better......things are rarely black and white and there may be some truth in there....but no, it's much easier to condemn outright than try and understand the ins and outs of it.....

Six weeks ago, understanding about the virus was in short supply and fear was very high - and fear, even desperation, can make people do the wrong things. I would have rather Cummings had been a bit more humble and admitted he had, in retrospect done wrong, but on the day he left, it may have looked to him that his world was coming apart - a wife who was ill - and if one parent went into hospital, the other one left on their own looking after a child but with every prospect of also getting ill because covid was all around him - then maybe having to go into hospital as well and who then looks after your child who may get ill as well.....it would be a drastic situation and there was an easy solution - go somewhere where all things could be managed. Put yourself in his shoes - a four hour drive and safety to an isolated cottage with family nearby.  Yes, he was possibly now putting others at risk by going up there, but fear and a survival instinct would probably kick in very quickly. 

As I say, he would have been better to admit some retrospective sense of having done wrong, but actually, his trip to Durham may well been as he said - out of fear, illness and having somewhere where if needed his child could be looked after.

Sorry to harp on about this again to everyone else, but the above post is uneccessarily abusive. 

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Bb, I think as VW posted regarding a survey, 7/10 disagree with how DC behaved, 2/10 are okay with the issue and are supportive whilst 10% do not really have a view. Those percentages seem to represent the numbers quite well here, the Pinkun forum (on this issue) as a perfect microcosm. You have hinted who may be where already.

So, it's a little lonely being in the 10% I'm guessing?

It will blow through like any storm and wind. But here you are still trying to walk through it all, even with your best souwester on!

Timing, I think.

Well if this forum (& many others) was a microcosm of public opinion then Remain would've won the referendum by a landslide.

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I think it is quite restrained given the amount of **** you have posted

If there was even the slightest credibility in what Cummings has been peddling then there would have been no need for the attempted cover up after the Guardian asked him about this SIX WEEKS ago.

He could have simply told the truth,

But, instead we have had a litany of lies and misrepresentations - scontradictory claims and absurd stories,

Maybe if you weren't so dim you might ask yourself why both of them, and a No,19 spokesman felt the need for the blatant attempts at a cover up since they were  first asked.

If there was a plausible reason then why all the deception and lies ?

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6 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Well if this forum (& many others) was a microcosm of public opinion then Remain would've won the referendum by a landslide.

A better microcosm would be the polls, which are consistently showing the public don't believe Cummings, think he should resign and distrust Johnson

Get him out

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10 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Well if this forum (& many others) was a microcosm of public opinion then Remain would've won the referendum by a landslide.

Ah, I never followed that thread pre Brexit very much... so didn't know what the percentages were. Looked in at times and there were several posters strongly for Brexit from memory and maybe 3 or 4 for remain? Do you know? Was remain more aspected in opinion then?

Edited by sonyc

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45 minutes ago, Bill said:

Cummings blog post was about, referenced, and linked to an article about the potential of a global pandemic. Said article referenced coronaviruses.

Proof:

The article from last year: https://web.archive.org/web/20190607062413/https://thebulletin.org/2019/02/human-error-in-high-biocontainment-labs-a-likely-pandemic-threat/

The report describes yet another well-publicized incident in China in which “two researchers conducting virus research were exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus samples that were incompletely inactivated. The researchers subsequently transmitted SARS to others, leading to several infections and one death in 2004.”

Link to the blog referencing the article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191028221459/https://dominiccummings.com/2019/03/04/the-most-secure-bio-labs-routinely-make-errors-that-could-cause-a-global-pandemic-are-about-to-re-start-experiments-on-pathogens-engineered-to-make-them-mammalian-airborne-transmissible/

Opening paragraph:

Experiments on viruses that could cause a global pandemic killing many millions were halted but were recently cleared to resume and will be conducted in these ‘top security’ labs.

He had the following text that linked to the article:

The new Bulletin of Atomic Scientists carries research showing how the supposedly most secure bio-labs have serious security problems and clearly present an unacceptable risk of causing a disastrous pandemic:

He edited it a while back to add another quote from the article that specifically mentioned coronavirus, but it is true that he wrote about the danger of a potential global coronavirus pandemic.

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5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Ah, I never followed that thread pre Brexit very much... so didn't know what the percentages were. Looked in at times and there were several posters strongly for Brexit from memory and maybe 3 or 4 for remain? Do you know? Was remain more aspected in opinion then?

Having spent a while trawling through the back pages it was closer than I thought. There was Jools, me, RTB, mello, Swindon, Moy, Buh, CM, Fen, Broadstairs, ricardo, Crabby, Wooster for it & PC, Herman, Squit, BF, HHS, City 1st, Shrimper, Surfer,YF, HIWEM,.k.i.o., CM, Daz, TCC, ICS, Apples against LDC & VW were against but thought we should respect the result I seem to remember. If you want I could try to dredge up some more but I'm losing the will to live!

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@ron obviousGod, no! I do recall Bill, and T mostly against and Paul Moy and Jools for on the other side. (My own view disappeared into the sea very early and quickly and I decided to mostly stay there).

It's perhaps only the last 4 or 5 months that I've posted so often and it's only when you engage more that you learn most...i.e. how folk think.

I still think it's a bit of a microcosm of views in wider society (on SOME issues) and therefore fascinating. I realise it is inexact and I would love to know the age structure here, ethnicity and gender (suspect 95% male? Maybe less?). Should ask Peter sometime.

Edited by sonyc

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On 25/05/2020 at 17:23, BigFish said:

He's Johnson's SPAD, while Johnson thinks he needs him he will remain. Nothing anyone can do about it. In Brexit Britain I was told we would be able to unelect our leaders. Turns out that is not the case.

More like spade with all the holes he's digging.

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44 minutes ago, Bill said:

A better microcosm would be the polls, which are consistently showing the public don't believe Cummings, think he should resign and distrust Johnson

Get him out

 

10 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Having spent a while trawling through the back pages it was closer than I thought. There was Jools, me, RTB, mello, Swindon, Moy, Buh, CM, Fen, Broadstairs, ricardo, Crabby, Wooster for it & PC, Herman, Squit, BF, HHS, City 1st, Shrimper, Surfer,YF, HIWEM,.k.i.o., CM, Daz, TCC, ICS, Apples against LDC & VW were against but thought we should respect the result I seem to remember. If you want I could try to dredge up some more but I'm losing the will to live!

What we're witnessing, Ron, is the EU loving media establishment Remainiacs and their minority of cohorts/followers in the last chance saloon 🙃

The EU today have at last realised they're going to have to make concessions.

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3 hours ago, Bill said:

The problem is that the government has lost an authority on this one.Anyone out today would see that it was 'business as usual - no one distancing or anything else.

Johnson has to pretend it is the government's guidance, where in reality it is simply being ignored

While businesses can be prosecuted the average person cannot - when everyone else is doing the same. Policing is done by consent. Not by rule

Pubs are already serving drink and will continue to do so, bending the rules day by day

The Prince of Wales in Primrose Hill

Amazingly I was out today in multiple places and saw people social distancing still. I literally queued to get lunch in a 2m spaced collection line, I must have imagined it though because “no one was distancing or anything else” according to you.

I had no idea your powers had advanced to omnipresent, good to know.

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7 hours ago, sonyc said:

It's a major issue for members of the police to deal with, following up on serious crimes and domestic issues. And it's not straightforward dealing with PTSD because it often manifests with anxiety disorders and depression.

I would expect we will hear much more about NHS staff and how they are affected in the months to come. They have not only dealt with what they've had to do but also they've been right in the national headlights, so to speak. More than ever, they've been politicised of course. This conflicts so much with their clinical focus and medical ethics. So, there are also issues of 'identity' you might say.

When people move away from the coalface and try and make sense of it all, the meaning of things starts to hit home. Often delayed of course (like the grief cycle, where people sometimes do not process things at the time).

I have already been reading stories from Spain and Italy of nurses and doctors saying they are considering their future, they are not sure if they can continue in their jobs.

It seems to happen once the very worst of their work is done, when the pandemic is in full swing they are almost in "automatic" mode and although they are working hours way beyond what they should do, they are able to cope and don't think of themselves. Once that sense of "duty" has gone, they have the time to reflect and look at themselves.

I'm ex-military and what they describe is exactly the same as has happened to many serving and ex-members of the Armed Forces.

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6 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Having spent a while trawling through the back pages it was closer than I thought. There was Jools, me, RTB, mello, Swindon, Moy, Buh, CM, Fen, Broadstairs, ricardo, Crabby, Wooster for it & PC, Herman, Squit, BF, HHS, City 1st, Shrimper, Surfer,YF, HIWEM,.k.i.o., CM, Daz, TCC, ICS, Apples against LDC & VW were against but thought we should respect the result I seem to remember. If you want I could try to dredge up some more but I'm losing the will to live!

I don't know about you Ron, and although I was on the losing side, I am more than happy to be on the same side as those guys.

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The Daily Star has a great front page today. And the Borisgraph is now laying the boot in. 

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7 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Having spent a while trawling through the back pages it was closer than I thought. There was Jools, me, RTB, mello, Swindon, Moy, Buh, CM, Fen, Broadstairs, ricardo, Crabby, Wooster for it & PC, Herman, Squit, BF, HHS, City 1st, Shrimper, Surfer,YF, HIWEM,.k.i.o., CM, Daz, TCC, ICS, Apples against LDC & VW were against but thought we should respect the result I seem to remember. If you want I could try to dredge up some more but I'm losing the will to live!

So, 2 against 2 according to Bill  🙂

 

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48 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I have already been reading stories from Spain and Italy of nurses and doctors saying they are considering their future, they are not sure if they can continue in their jobs.

It seems to happen once the very worst of their work is done, when the pandemic is in full swing they are almost in "automatic" mode and although they are working hours way beyond what they should do, they are able to cope and don't think of themselves. Once that sense of "duty" has gone, they have the time to reflect and look at themselves.

I'm ex-military and what they describe is exactly the same as has happened to many serving and ex-members of the Armed Forces.

Your military analogy is a useful one ...if you've read the Guardian article this morning about NHS 'heroes" it underlines the problem lying ahead, the mental conflict I alluded to.

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38 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I have already been reading stories from Spain and Italy of nurses and doctors saying they are considering their future, they are not sure if they can continue in their jobs.

It seems to happen once the very worst of their work is done, when the pandemic is in full swing they are almost in "automatic" mode and although they are working hours way beyond what they should do, they are able to cope and don't think of themselves. Once that sense of "duty" has gone, they have the time to reflect and look at themselves.

I'm ex-military and what they describe is exactly the same as has happened to many serving and ex-members of the Armed Forces.

Thats exactly why I bought myself out of the Army  Marko. Once I realised what exactly we were 'fighting ,for'..., that was it for me. I knew a lad on the Sheffield who never recovered from his experiences, I was lucky, a bit older and maybe better prepared mentally, but theres a point when people have to act in their own interests....to protect their own heads. This is the bit that makes actions of the likes of Cummins indefensible, while some sacrifice their lives and mental stability, he wouldnt sacrifice a trip that covered his wifes and mothers birthdays. Thats When people at the Sharp End think 'whats the point?'  .....and if enough think that , then we're in a whole heap of trouble.

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This article now won't load (weird). Source True Publica on twitter

 

Edited by sonyc
Duplicate

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7 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Amazingly I was out today in multiple places and saw people social distancing still. I literally queued to get lunch in a 2m spaced collection line, I must have imagined it though because “no one was distancing or anything else” according to you.

I had no idea your powers had advanced to omnipresent, good to know.

It’s almost as if Bill is trying to undermine the Public health advice, appalling.

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Perhaps now we might see the DC uproar in context (distraction) and how this links to the virus / pandemic can be seen just a little bit more clearly...

Full list of MPs who voted to lower our food standards during the Covid pandemic

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/full-list-of-mps-who-voted-to-lower-our-food-standards-during-the-covid-pandemic/26/05/

Ps. Should add that this story has been playing out across many media outlets in the last few days (Express, Guardian etc)

 

Edited by sonyc

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Not sure if this study has been reported before, apologies if it has.

 
“Coronavirus infection without symptoms might be more common than previously thought, according to a study of people isolated on a cruise ship during the pandemic.

More than 80% of the passengers and crew on the unnamed cruise ship who tested positive for Covid-19 were asymptomatic.

The prevalence of the virus on affected cruise ships is therefore likely to be "significantly underestimated", the study published in the journal Thorax concludes.

Of the 217 passengers and crew on board, 128 tested positive for the virus and of those, 104 patients - 81% - did not have symptoms.

The ship left in mid-March from Argentina for a planned 21-day cruise of the Antarctic. It set sail after the global pandemic was declared by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and two of the study authors happened to be passengers, while a third was the expedition physician.

Passengers and crew were screened for Covid-19 symptoms, body temperatures were taken before boarding, and no-one who had recently travelled through countries with high infection rates at the time such as China and South Korea was allowed on.

The first recorded fever on board the ship was on day eight and the study authors said from that point all passengers were confined to their cabins and surgical masks were issued, while full personal protective equipment was used for any contact with any patients with a fever.

Eight people had to be medically evacuated from the ship and the authors said there had been one death to date.”

Edited by Van wink

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