Corona Virus main thread

[Barbe bleu 814]

4 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

15 june non essential shops allowed to open.   What are peoples thoughts on this? (No one is allowed to bring the conversation back to Cummings by use of the word 'distraction'

 

I'm accepting synonyms 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[king canary 7,578]

15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

If only a limited number of pubs did open i guess there could be a rush and over crowding here regardless of advice.  Maybe the thinking is that it's all of nothing and not give the choice to pubs that could open?

I could do with a beer garden right now though...

Also I imagine keeping drunk people socially distanced would not be much fun.

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

I’ve been to the rising sun today. Sausage and chips with 2 pints of wherry in a container. Took a pint glass with me and sat by the river, lovely old job 😁

[T 190]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Some good to come out of this. Marina Hyde has one of her phrases trending on twitter. "Johnson's Hasselhoff".

Brilliantly talented writer whatever your politics. 

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Is Coronavirus now more popular than Quagliarella?

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

He’s going to look at it and review it before giving a full answer. I’d have thought he could quite clearly have come out and said that if you were travelling for childcare purposes you shouldn’t have been fined. That’s what we were told yesterday. Why does he need to think about it?

Because it will open a pandora's box.

Anyone fined can claim they were doing it for childcare - as Cummings has stretched that  qualification to it's further limits  So a court would have to risk losing a test case, or simply have the government refund ALL the fines - and as for my part I am not sure of the legal validity of them anyway.

To have to refund would bring the whole lockdown process into question, whereby others might claim that they lost by sticking to a law that has now proven to be flawed.

As pointed out on Saturday this has huge ramifications and will not so much rumble on as to cause far wider problems for the government

 

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Apologies if this has already been posted.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/26/dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-terrified-sack-him

Thanks CC. She makes a similar point to what I have posted previously - not that it's a particularly original one. But still.... 

This will be the last word from me on the specific DC subject, back to CoronaVirus data and trends. 

 

Cummings’ university history tutor once described him as "something like Robespierre, “determined to bring down things that don’t work”. Five years after his revolution, Robespierre himself was deemed to be something that didn’t really work, and was “brought down”, to euphemise the business of being relieved of your head in front of an ecstatic mob. I must say I found the footage of Cummings being screamed at in his street on Sunday distinctly disturbing when set alongside his account of his family’s house having become a target for threats of violence. This is never right. 

Part of what’s disturbing was the vignette of a Britain Cummings himself did much to foment: grimly polarised, reflexively aggressive and running with an undercurrent of menace. His crowning triumph – the successful campaign to leave the EU – was a masterclass of stoking and exploiting divisions, unpleasantly emotive half-truths or untruths, and evidently considered itself above the law. I wrote last year about the dangerous folly of whipping up people versus parliament narratives, and how quickly those who imagine themselves on the side of the people can suddenly be reclassified as an enemy politician. But even I would have thought it too neat, too written, for Cummings to find himself on the wrong end of his sorcery as quickly as he has been. The thing about playing to angry mobs is that eventually they get angry with you. They came for Robespierre in the end, too.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

   On 24/05/2020 at 14:06,  T said:

The real question is why is Cummings so important to the hard right. Reality is that they don’t have ability or reality on their side so they are reliant on his ability to manipulate the public. Only problem is the public have recoiled when they have seen the full reality of Cummings exposed in public. 
 

The real question is why you keep bleating on about Brexiteers who you label as the hard right when you should grow up and accept that many of us were just fed up with the corrupt, self-serving panjandrums that populate the EU.

But for you to congratulate this Government is firmly nailing your blinkers to the side of your head. We all know your leanings.

[BigFish 1,986]

22 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Good to see death rate plummeting. Congratulations for the excellent job the government are doing overall. 👍

Yep, 60,000+ dead good job. So good that Cyprus are opening their tourist industry for everyone else but banning Brits. Well done for the the most tasteless post on this thread

[BigFish 1,986]

20 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

We have a winner!

Appreciate that you are desparate to keep politics out of this, although only because of the systemic failure of the government. But this again looks like it is driven by the politics rather than the science. Timing gives the game away, a desparate attempt to take Cummings off the front pages.

Simple fact is the UK is not ready. With an R number of 0.7 to 1 and no track, trace and isolate up and running or detailed protocols. It wouldn't take much to prompt a spike or second wave. Not to say that it couldn't be achieved by the 15th, but the government has failed to hit any deadlines to date so you would guess they won't be ready to meet this one.

August 1, like Scotland with their schools would be a better idea. It could be done properly then, rather than half arsed.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

36 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Cos limited  capacity doesnt pay the Bills, let alone make a profit. 

 There may be the odd exception, fully owned pubs with large rooms/ outside  spaces, other than them cant see how it's worth their while opening. 

Maybe, but possibly if you could get even 20 customers in at a time, a pub could at least reduce the losses it might be making? Especially if it does food. And takeaway food 

I suggest this because where I live "pubs and bars" were shut from the end of March until yesterday, but "Restaurants with alcohol licences" were permitted to open. There was a restriction of 20 people per establishment, many places were shut but several decided to stay open. I assume the places that opened thought it financially viable 

[Indy 3,283]

46 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

   On 24/05/2020 at 14:06,  T said:

The real question is why is Cummings so important to the hard right. Reality is that they don’t have ability or reality on their side so they are reliant on his ability to manipulate the public. Only problem is the public have recoiled when they have seen the full reality of Cummings exposed in public. 
 

The real question is why you keep bleating on about Brexiteers who you label as the hard right when you should grow up and accept that many of us were just fed up with the corrupt, self-serving panjandrums that populate the EU.

That’s brilliant yet a high ranking advisor to our PM can flaunt the rules without any apology or comeback, basically corrupting the system in place...... So the thing you’re angry about the EU, it’s ok for the UK government to do!

Edited May 26, 2020 by Indy

[Barbe bleu 814]

48 minutes ago, king canary said:

Also I imagine keeping drunk people socially distanced would not be much fun.

Might have hit the nail on the head there.

1 july is my bet, but with limitations. Fuller opening soon thereafter as there will be complaints about competition.

I think we'll be ok by then until autumn

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Imagine being such a fckwit that you believe Cummings’ pathetic excuses. Watch the press conference. He struggled to convincingly answer any of the questions without looking completely making it up as he went along. Rabbit in the headlights. 

[Herman 9,713]

Here's a daft but happy video.

 

[Bill 1,788]

18 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 but the government has failed to hit any deadlines to date so you would guess they won't be ready to meet this one.

The problem is that the government has lost an authority on this one.Anyone out today would see that it was 'business as usual - no one distancing or anything else.

Johnson has to pretend it is the government's guidance, where in reality it is simply being ignored

While businesses can be prosecuted the average person cannot - when everyone else is doing the same. Policing is done by consent. Not by rule

Pubs are already serving drink and will continue to do so, bending the rules day by day

[Bill 1,788]

10 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Whatever the 'rights or wrongs' of Cumminsgate there is little doubt now that he is a dead man walking (as they say). BJ has a decreasing amount of options left as even traditional supporters are baying for blood. Be in no doubt that what will be happening right now is that new potential 'advisers' are being sounded out and 'talks' taking place. Once the ducks are in a row,  BJ wIll phone Cummings and agree the customary 'exchange of letters' and the boy Cummings will be sacrificed to 'save the PM'. 

The largely REMAIN media will delight at their victory and plot their next move against a weakened PM and divided Government. I'm only surprised one Gina Miller hasn't thrust herself into the cameras whipping up populist rage against 'the Tories'. 

Now I would 'love it, absolutely love it' (to coin that famous phrase) if BJ then held a live TV news conference and unveiled his new political adviser. Who was that guy who (a few years ago, like him or not) could walk on to a stage and speak without notes or autocue and 'whip up an audience'? You know the 'closet Tory', 'womaniser' (would go down a storm with BJ!)? You know the guy who has tried about seven or eight times to be an MP but failed?? Surely you can recall his name can't you. You know, the guy who 'has the ear' of the American President. No - couldn't be HIM surely to God??? Now THAT would be something worth watching as many of you on this forum literally combust with fury! He hasn't got a job at the moment so............................????          

oh dear, this has all really passed you by

hasn't it ?

[Barbe bleu 814]

34 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Appreciate that you are desparate to keep politics out of this, although only because of the systemic failure of the government. 

I'm not interested in defending or attacking the government and of i were this is not fertile ground for converting anyone's opinion.

When this story came out it was pretty easy to predict the reaction here (LDC and Indy being the outliers) everyone has had their say but it's still going on. Not much new is being said but everyone wants the final word (i put this in neutral terms as it applies to both sides of the  Brexit divide)

I posted the 'deflection' bit as it was inevitable that it would come up and I wanted a little fun with it. Surprised it took so long before it did come up to be honest.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

With the number of Tory MPs publicly calling for Cummings to resign up to 24

And with the now almost certainty that the transition period will have to be extended the new slogan will soon be

'Get him out'

do keep up Bill

".........as at least 32 publicly called for Cummings to resign or be sacked for breaking lockdown rules.

A further eight were publicly critical of the senior aide’s actions, and three Tory MPs said off the record that they thought he should be forced out."

Any thought that there are others who may not have voiced their opinion publicly but have made their thoughts known to the whips ?

So the real question in all this is why Johnson seems unable to remove him

Who really is in charge ?

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, T said:

Brilliantly talented writer whatever your politics. 

And kinda cute too.

[Van wink 2,994]

 Bit concerning this, serious consideration as to whether BJ is actually suffering some sort of mental health disorder, its crossed my mind several times watching him since his illness.

Professor Ed Bullmore, a neuroscientist at Cambridge University, said there was enough evidence now to describe the Sars-CoV-2 virus as causing a “neurotoxic illness” and said it was possible the psychiatric effects could last beyond a decade.

He said research had shown that a number of Covid-19 patients experienced a “kind of altered mental state”, adding that this included “cases of psychosis mood disorder and cognitive impairment”

“We don’t know necessarily the causes of that neurotoxicity. It could be that the virus infects the brain; it could be that the immune response to the virus damages the brain, or it could be the blood supply to the brain. All those mechanisms look plausible at the moment.”

He said data from the previous Sars and Mers coronavirus infections showed the potential for long-term damage.

“When you look at the sort of longer-term psychiatric sequelae [disease consequences] of those epidemics, they’re pretty severe.

“Up to 12 years of follow-up after the acute illness. They were finding quite high frequencies of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, insomnia and mild cognitive impairment. This is an illness that we need to take very seriously from a psychiatric and neurological point of view, not just right now, but perhaps for months and years to come.”

[sonyc 5,491]

9 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not interested in defending or attacking the government and of i were this is not fertile ground for converting anyone opinion.

When this story came out it was pretty easy to predict the reaction here (LDC and Indy being the outliers) everyone has had their say but it's still going on. Not much new is being said but everyone wants the final word.

I posted the 'deflection' bit as it was inevitable that it would come up and I wanted a little fun with it. Surprised it took so long for it to come up to be honest.

 

 

Bb, I think as VW posted regarding a survey, 7/10 disagree with how DC behaved, 2/10 are okay with the issue and are supportive whilst 10% do not really have a view. Those percentages seem to represent the numbers quite well here, the Pinkun forum (on this issue) as a perfect microcosm. You have hinted who may be where already.

So, it's a little lonely being in the 10% I'm guessing?

It will blow through like any storm and wind. But here you are still trying to walk through it all, even with your best souwester on!

Timing, I think.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Can you imagine what being on a ventilator for weeks and weeks must do to you mentally VW? 

[sonyc 5,491]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

Can you imagine what being on a ventilator for weeks and weeks must do to you mentally VW? 

This was covered on the news recently. And seeing that Colchester doctor the other night (very well, fit and healthy) showed just what a few weeks does to a person. The other thing is the trauma of NHS staff having seen what they've seen.

 

[Herman 9,713]

All the years of evidence shows that Johnson has always been like this. He probably does have after effects from the virus but I get the feeling some are just realising what a lot sussed out a long time ago. He wants the prize, he wants the glory but he doean't want the hard work that comes with the job.

[Barbe bleu 814]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

All the years of evidence shows that Johnson has always been like this. He probably does have after effects from the virus but I get the feeling some are just realising what a lot sussed out a long time ago. He wants the prize, he wants the glory but he doean't want the hard work that comes with the job.

Is agree with you on this.  David Cameron was the same.  Wanted the prestige but hadn't really thought beyond that. No vision or philosophy behind it.

I wonder what he thought about shops reopening and what his plans for pubs would have been.  Any thoughts?

[Van wink 2,994]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Can you imagine what being on a ventilator for weeks and weeks must do to you mentally VW? 

Very much so, it can take a long time to recover from. The article I posted is also suggesting that there may be direct neurological effects from the virus itself.

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

19 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 Bit concerning this, serious consideration as to whether BJ is actually suffering some sort of mental health disorder, its crossed my mind several times watching him since his illness.

Professor Ed Bullmore, a neuroscientist at Cambridge University, said there was enough evidence now to describe the Sars-CoV-2 virus as causing a “neurotoxic illness” and said it was possible the psychiatric effects could last beyond a decade.

He said research had shown that a number of Covid-19 patients experienced a “kind of altered mental state”, adding that this included “cases of psychosis mood disorder and cognitive impairment”

“We don’t know necessarily the causes of that neurotoxicity. It could be that the virus infects the brain; it could be that the immune response to the virus damages the brain, or it could be the blood supply to the brain. All those mechanisms look plausible at the moment.”

He said data from the previous Sars and Mers coronavirus infections showed the potential for long-term damage.

“When you look at the sort of longer-term psychiatric sequelae [disease consequences] of those epidemics, they’re pretty severe.

“Up to 12 years of follow-up after the acute illness. They were finding quite high frequencies of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, insomnia and mild cognitive impairment. This is an illness that we need to take very seriously from a psychiatric and neurological point of view, not just right now, but perhaps for months and years to come.”

Thanks for that VW

 I'd half hinted half jokingly if Johnson was 'addled' as an explanation to his apparent hopeless defence of Cummings.

More seriously, it harks back to dark thoughts and worries I have had and once voiced a while ago on herd immunity and unknown long term risks to exposed populations. If it was like bits dropping off a few years later might wake some up to risks. Then again a bit of Darwinian selection might help future generations. Consider mumps for instance.

[Barbe bleu 814]

18 minutes ago, sonyc said:

The other thing is the trauma of NHS staff having seen what they've seen.

 

We havent discussed this before.  PTSD is a very big deal in some professions and rightly so but generally it's in terms of threats to their life and not to the lives of others.   It also can come many years after the event

Interesting and important point and good on you for raising it. 

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Might be a call for the resumption of genetic engineering after this.

Obviously they will have to destroy the failures, like Katie Hopkins being badly engineered so that she is just a complete cnut.

But I expect Science will already be searching for some immunity that can be given to the foetus.