Corona Virus main thread

[ricardo 7,347]

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

blimey, you almost sound like hand crank😉

But is it him?

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I would suggest that the dangers - to him, his family, & everyone else - would have been greater in London where isolation is incredibly difficult. Think of the vastly greater chance of coming into contact with many user surfaces for example.

He has an unfortunate face (🙂) & an even more unfortunate manner. He is hated by a large proportion of the population because of Brexit. The media hate him to a man (& woman). They're desperate to skewer him. I doubt this'll be the last attempt.

yes, that is one of the dangers of having to stay at home in a large town house in London with umpteen rooms

though it never appeared to be a problem for those living in a tiny cramped one bed flat

 

but do carry on - as there might be one or two out there who are fully aware of just how stupid the guff you righties put up

ps where's hand crank ?

[Aggy 752]

3 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I would suggest that the dangers - to him, his family, & everyone else - would have been greater in London where isolation is incredibly difficult. Think of the vastly greater chance of coming into contact with many user surfaces for example.

So , again, are you saying here that the government’s instructions to “stay home” and the legislation which says you can’t go out of your house except in certain listed circumstances, are fine to be ignored if you think you know better than the government? 
 

How is isolation more difficult in London than anywhere else? “Stay home” - doesn’t really matter where your home is if you’re not allowed out of it does it?

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Aggy said:

Either the rules are important and benefit people - in which case he should follow them. Or they don’t benefit anyone, and everything he and his government have been saying for the last three months is tosh. 

This is indeed the point. At some point the details of a specific case don’t matter. What does matter is DC is a key member of the government; not officially of course, but he is. 

In government you have a responsibility to lead by example, nothing destroys a government’s legitimacy and hence ability to proscribe harsh measures like behaving in a “that rule for thee, but not for me” fashion. 

We all know that we are not “all in it together” as far as the PM, Cabinet ministers, royals etc are concerned, they are legitimate “critical workers” for running the state. What we don’t expect to see is people creating specific harsh rules for everyone to follow, and then explicitly breaking them and also lying about why you did that. 

You already see the political damage this is bringing to the government, Starmer is now more popular than the PM, whereas before the PM was much more popular than Corbyn, the PM’s approval rating for handling the CV crisis has fallen from +44% in March to +19% last week to -1% today, with approval for the government overall dropping from +14% to -2% in the past few days .....and probably likely to worsen as they come out with the ludicrous support for “driving while blind”

That is a huge red flag to a government who seems to insist on a dogmatic protection of an advisor who has clearly misrepresented what happened and more importantly why. 

He could have arranged for a private nurse or nanny and stayed in London. He is after all the special advisor to the PM. It was clearly “in the interest of the country” to have done that, and nobody in their right mind would have objected to that arrangement even if at public expense.

But nope, trash the lockdown regulations, show you are not like everyone else that you claimed to be, and then lie about it - especially galling is his wife’s fantasy article ...so here we are. 

It’s no wonder so many Tory MP’s are livid. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Surfer

[Barbe bleu 815]

39 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So why have people been fined for travelling 30 miles to go to McDonald’s drive throughs for instance?

Have they?  Ive missed this story, can you provide a link?  I'm contemplating a trip to McDonalds and it is quite far to the nearest one..

[Crabbycanary3 994]

42 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Not if they all self isolated at all times.

So, other rules were superfluous then? That's all people needed to do was to self isolate. The risk of having hundreds of thousands of cars driving up and down the motorways (one example) could, potentially have created a sheite fest for all sorts of people at the height of the virus. Not everyone can travel nigh on 600 miles with a  4 yr old kid with 'perhaps' one petrol stop and one toilet break and remained safe to all others. 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Crabbycanary3

[ron obvious 1,501]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

So , again, are you saying here that the government’s instructions to “stay home” and the legislation which says you can’t go out of your house except in certain listed circumstances, are fine to be ignored if you think you know better than the government? 
 

How is isolation more difficult in London than anywhere else? “Stay home” - doesn’t really matter where your home is if you’re not allowed out of it does it?

Well, as has been pointed out the rules are open to some interpretation when young children are involved.

Unless you stay indoors permanently then it's impossible not to get near people in a densely populated part of London (which a lot of it is). How do you get food? What if you get ill? Everything you touch will probably have been touched by many other people.

How does that compare to Cummings situation in a cottage 50m from anyone else? He even had a couple of relatives with an extremely low risk of mortality from the virus lined up if the worst came to the worst.

As I said, he's lucky. He's in a privileged position. If he has in fact put less lives at risk by his actions (assuming his account is correct) which I believe is probable, & he hasn't actually broken any law then I don't think he's done anything irresponsible.

[Surfer 1,547]

HE LEFT LONDON AND DROVE TO DURHAM! 
What part of that is not breaking the rules? 

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Well, as has been pointed out the rules are open to some interpretation when young children are involved.

Unless you stay indoors permanently then it's impossible not to get near people in a densely populated part of London (which a lot of it is). How do you get food? What if you get ill? Everything you touch will probably have been touched by many other people.

How does that compare to Cummings situation in a cottage 50m from anyone else? He even had a couple of relatives with an extremely low risk of mortality from the virus lined up if the worst came to the worst.

As I said, he's lucky. He's in a privileged position. If he has in fact put less lives at risk by his actions (assuming his account is correct) which I believe is probable, & he hasn't actually broken any law then I don't think he's done anything irresponsible.

I very much doubt even you believe that old ****

[ron obvious 1,501]

Just now, Surfer said:

HE LEFT LONDON AND DROVE TO DURHAM! 
What part of that is not breaking the rules? 

As has been pointed out, the rules aren't so clear when a child is involved.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

Well, as has been pointed out the rules are open to some interpretation when young children are involved.

Unless you stay indoors permanently then it's impossible not to get near people in a densely populated part of London (which a lot of it is). How do you get food? What if you get ill? Everything you touch will probably have been touched by many other people.

How does that compare to Cummings situation in a cottage 50m from anyone else? He even had a couple of relatives with an extremely low risk of mortality from the virus lined up if the worst came to the worst.

As I said, he's lucky. He's in a privileged position. If he has in fact put less lives at risk by his actions (assuming his account is correct) which I believe is probable, & he hasn't actually broken any law then I don't think he's done anything irresponsible.

Well that is what the great unwashed were trying to do. That is what Cummings told everyone to do (even those with kids to try and get sorted). People were self isolating but also social distancing IF they HAD to go out. Cummings was taking a gamble on his nieces life. 

[Barbe bleu 815]

Anyone interested in the announcement that shops are allowed to reopen in mid june?

 

[Van wink 2,994]

53 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Should be horse whipped IMO.

 

Bill was out and about driving, advising fellow posters to put a shopping bag on the front seat so they could tell plod they were going shopping if stopped, mocking those taking sensible precautions by wearing face masks, in Aldi's I believe it was. 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Anyone interested in the announcement that shops are allowed to reopen in mid june?

 

Yes me.

[Crafty Canary 495]

In a national emergency situation the trust between the leaders and the led is paramount. Whether you believe Cummings’ explanation or not the public perception is that he broke the lockdown rules and consequently there is one rule for the leadership and another for the rest of us. This undermines that vital trust and, although I have some sympathy for the desire to protect his son, he has to go.By not acting sooner the PM has eroded his position.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Just now, ron obvious said:

As has been pointed out, the rules aren't so clear when a child is involved.

The child was used as a convenient excuse (as was the 'threats' outside his house). If the situation was much further down the path with illness etc then a hospital would have come in too play. He was happy to have his son and niece in a crappy cottage 260 odd miles away. If his son suddenly got worse, with Cummings back in London, what would have happened then? 

[ricardo 7,347]

2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Anyone interested in the announcement that shops are allowed to reopen in mid june?

 

I used to hate being dragged round the shops by Mrs R but now its beginning to seem like some exotic adventure.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

As has been pointed out, the rules aren't so clear when a child is involved.

 I think your current position is best described as being an 'anarchist' - make your own rules up to suit yourself.

Anarchy is the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. ... Anarchy is primarily advocated by individual anarchists who propose replacing government with voluntary institutions.

Just so we are clear on this.

[ricardo 7,347]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yes me.

If you take your entire entourage of alias's with you please don't forget to social distance.

[Van wink 2,994]

Just now, Crabbycanary3 said:

The child was used as a convenient excuse (as was the 'threats' outside his house). If the situation was much further down the path with illness etc then a hospital would have come in too play. He was happy to have his son and niece in a crappy cottage 260 odd miles away. If his son suddenly got worse, with Cummings back in London, what would have happened then? 

This child excuse is pushing things to a limit beyond what was intended, sometimes we need to go behind the regulations and look at their intention, the slight relaxation in relation to children was intended in the main to deal with situations  where children were at risk due to being in lockdown and in an abusive environment, Cummings has twisted this beyond the intention.

[Barbe bleu 815]

15 june non essential shops allowed to open.   What are peoples thoughts on this? (No one is allowed to bring the conversation back to Cummings by use of the word 'distraction)

If this does happen lockdown will effectively be over as that will leave just pubs, social gatherings and mass events on the naughty list. 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

If you take your entire entourage of alias's with you please don't forget to social distance.

I never walk alone

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I used to hate being dragged round the shops by Mrs R but now its beginning to seem like some exotic adventure.

Ha Ha...Make sure you socially distance yourselves from your flexible friend.

[Mark .Y. 351]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I  think they'll definitely want Euros in Spain. Issue will be flights from the UK in July - and then return quarantines!

Yeh, fair point about the Euros  🙂

I think the quarantine will be rescinded by July 1st, stupid thing to do. Could understand if they had announced that anybody coming in from some countries (eg most of South America) would be subject to quarantine for the immediate future but to apply it to countries that are ahead of us in dealing with the virus is simply stupid.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

15 june non essential shops allowed to open.   What are peoples thoughts on this? (No one is allowed to bring the conversation back to Cummings by use of the word 'distraction)

If this does happen lockdown will effectively be over as that will leave just pubs, social gatherings and mass events on the naughty list. 

 

Yes - I've argued for that for some time - I don't think most shops are or have ever been the major problem.

[ron obvious 1,501]

1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

The child was used as a convenient excuse (as was the 'threats' outside his house). If the situation was much further down the path with illness etc then a hospital would have come in too play. He was happy to have his son and niece in a crappy cottage 260 odd miles away. If his son suddenly got worse, with Cummings back in London, what would have happened then? 

I thought they all came back together?

I don't understand the hospital point.

'Convenient excuse'. You seem to think he did it as a joyride.

I doubt he was happy about any of it. And the risk to his niece was absolutely miniscule. Far less than anyone who would've had to help him out in London

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

2 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Yeh, fair point about the Euros  🙂

I think the quarantine will be rescinded by July 1st, stupid thing to do. Could understand if they had announced that anybody coming in from some countries (eg most of South America) would be subject to quarantine for the immediate future but to apply it to countries that are ahead of us in dealing with the virus is simply stupid.

I'd quite like to rescind one P.Patel  by 1st July as well. Yes a stupid blanket knee jerk' decision without any deep thought.

[ricardo 7,347]

6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Ha Ha...Make sure you socially distance yourselves from your flexible friend.

Its already in pain.

Now if someone could just lay me 2-1 on him staying until June 1st I could get out of trouble.

[ron obvious 1,501]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 I think your current position is best described as being an 'anarchist' - make your own rules up to suit yourself.

Anarchy is the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. ... Anarchy is primarily advocated by individual anarchists who propose replacing government with voluntary institutions.

Just so we are clear on this.

How does that follow from my statement? I can't see where any rules were made up, just that the rules had discretion when children were involved.

I think most of our rules are observed voluntarily. Speed limits for example. This is why we've been able to have low levels of policing with low crime rates (although that does vary widely throughout communities).  Policing by consent is always best.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Its already in pain.

Now if someone could just lay me 2-1 on him staying until June 1st I could get out of trouble.

Your money is safe Ricardo (I'll claim my fiver later as moral support) - he can't last. I see the leader of the Scottish Tories is now calling for him to be gone. If he doesn't go the 'Tories' (a misnomer)  will split asunder yet again and quite soon some will be openly questioning Johnson's position!

There just aren't enough mugs left out there that believe Cummings.