Corona Virus main thread

[king canary 7,578]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

What would have happened in London?

The whole point of the rules not to travel and to self isolate is to prevent taking the virus to places it may not have been before and then potentially overwhelm healthcare in other parts of the country.

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

As a matter of interest, who exactly has been put at greater risk by his actions?

The credibility as 'his actions include the lying an attempt at cover up afterwards

An example

"Dominic Cummings is under fire after it emerged he had altered articles he claimed had predicted the threat of coronaviruses after he returned to Number 10 in April.

A post on Dominic Cummings’ personal blog, dated March 2019, appears to have been edited on April 14th this year, the day he returned to work after self-isolating in Durham"

You may struggle to grasp the implications of a government and the PM involved in a cover up.

If so a clue might be, what was it that did for both Richard Nixon and eventually Harold MacMillan's government

Having a PM who cannot sack someone, who seems to have a free hand in all government affairs does not put out a message of a government in control of things -  but, as yesterday, having to react to the reality of others deciding for it

[Crabbycanary3 994]

6 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

He says he didn't stop on the way up. He was out of isolation on the way back.

He may be lying of course. Neither you nor I know whether that is so.

If you took one case/person then the risk would be minimal , but still present. If a few million other people decided to take similar actions, what would you have said then?

[Yellow Fever 3,745]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

What would have happened in London?

It doesn't work that way Ron. The 'added' risk in London to anybody would of been low - one extra case in say 1000.

In Durham - 1 extra case in say 10 at the time ....

The 'don't travel' advice was simply to stop people spreading the disease around the country - else we would all scarper to our hideaways and infect the locals. Just imagine a bunch of Covid infected Londoners moving in next to you....

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

Oh well, turns out there is one minister with a backbone, https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/26/uk-coronavirus-live-dominic-cummings-boris-johnson-latest-updates?page=with:block-5eccd3a78f0864e579f17bd1#block-5eccd3a78f0864e579f17bd1

Still a refreshing contrast to the chancers and liars making up the Cabinet.

[ron obvious 1,499]

Just now, king canary said:

The whole point of the rules not to travel and to self isolate is to prevent taking the virus to places it may not have been before and then potentially overwhelm healthcare in other parts of the country.

If he came into contact with nobody during his isolation & surrounding travel then surely he cannot spread the virus?

He is clearly in a privileged position, & I think that's where the anger is coming from (that was clearly so from the journalists interviewing him). 

The whole situation surrounding virus control is beset with difficulties. The situation, & associated risk, where I live is totally unlike that in central London. The risk varies enormously with age & overall health. It's very difficult to put you & your family into hardship by obeying rules which benefit nobody. I suspect Cummings put fewer people at risk by his actions rather than remaining in London - assuming he isn't lying.

The one part of his story that doesn't seem entirely plausible to me (plausibility does not necessitate truth by the way) is the Barnard Castle trip. My take is that it was his wife's birthday & he combined this with a dummy run after having been ill. That's pure supposition on my behalf of course.

[Aggy 752]

18 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Who amongst them came into contact with him?

So why have people been fined for travelling 30 miles to go to McDonald’s drive throughs for instance?

[ron obvious 1,499]

Just now, Aggy said:

So why have people been fined for travelling 30 miles to go to McDonald’s drive throughs for instance?

I've no idea. Sounds ludicrous to me.

[king canary 7,578]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

If he came into contact with nobody during his isolation & surrounding travel then surely he cannot spread the virus?

He is clearly in a privileged position, & I think that's where the anger is coming from (that was clearly so from the journalists interviewing him). 

The whole situation surrounding virus control is beset with difficulties. The situation, & associated risk, where I live is totally unlike that in central London. The risk varies enormously with age & overall health. It's very difficult to put you & your family into hardship by obeying rules which benefit nobody. I suspect Cummings put fewer people at risk by his actions rather than remaining in London - assuming he isn't lying.

The one part of his story that doesn't seem entirely plausible to me (plausibility does not necessitate truth by the way) is the Barnard Castle trip. My take is that it was his wife's birthday & he combined this with a dummy run after having been ill. That's pure supposition on my behalf of course.

That is great and all but still against the actual rules he created.

Otherwise we could all head wherever and claim as long as we were careful it was all ok.

[ron obvious 1,499]

11 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

If you took one case/person then the risk would be minimal , but still present. If a few million other people decided to take similar actions, what would you have said then?

Not if they all self isolated at all times.

[ricardo 7,343]

Just now, Aggy said:

So why have people been fined for travelling 30 miles to go to McDonald’s drive throughs for instance?

Should be horse whipped IMO.

 

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

The whole point of the rules not to travel and to self isolate is to prevent taking the virus to places it may not have been before and then potentially overwhelm healthcare in other parts of the country.

This was a planned for visit that was suddenly scuppered by the sudden announcement of the lock down, Knowing they could make the journey fairly easy and keep unnoticed meant that they decided to 'chance it.

When the Guardian picked up on the story, Cummings was fully ware of the implications.

That's when the real lies began...with his wife's misleading article in the Spectator. Getting No.10 to deny any police contact. Altering internet postings, That cover up has quickly unravelled as the inconsistencies become all too apparent

. Many will know that the courts take a very strong line on perjury. That's what sent Archer down  However, although no one has given evidence on oath, the principle remains the same. Cummings and other have set out and continued to put out a false story in this regard.

They have drawn in many of the cabinet, who in a measure of their stupidity leapt to his defence on Saturday - before knowing a quarter of the story. Then having to back track, and distance themselves from what has become a festering sore.

As mentioned earlier with Prince Andrew it was his all to ridiculous guff about not sweating and Pizzas that destroyed what little credibility he had left - as the simple fact is no one believed him

That is where we are now. Not a good place for any PM to be, as that is what it amounts to.

[ron obvious 1,499]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

It doesn't work that way Ron. The 'added' risk in London to anybody would of been low - one extra case in say 1000.

In Durham - 1 extra case in say 10 at the time ....

The 'don't travel' advice was simply to stop people spreading the disease around the country - else we would all scarper to our hideaways and infect the locals. Just imagine a bunch of Covid infected Londoners moving in next to you....

I'm not at all sure it works that way either.

The chances of coming into contact with anyone in London are far greater - I doubt if he could have self isolated as effectively in London as he did in an isolated cottage on his father's property.

And if a bunch of covid infected Londoners moved in next to me I'd give them a wide berth.

[ron obvious 1,499]

4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Should be horse whipped IMO.

 

Too good for him!!

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Should be horse whipped IMO.

 

I imagine that the odds on that a very long indeed 😀

[Aggy 752]

5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

It's very difficult to put you & your family into hardship by obeying rules which benefit nobody. I suspect Cummings put fewer people at risk by his actions rather than remaining in London - assuming he isn't lying.

Isn’t that exactly the point here though?

If he did it because the rules benefit nobody then he’s completely undermining government policy (and the law). He’s not just a normal bloke, he’s the government’s lead advisor. On his advice, the government have been telling the general public that these rules are for the benefit of everyone.
 

Either the rules are important and benefit people - in which case he should follow them. Or they don’t benefit anyone, and everything he and his government have been saying for the last three months is tosh. 

[ron obvious 1,499]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

That is great and all but still against the actual rules he created.

Otherwise we could all head wherever and claim as long as we were careful it was all ok.

That's why the present situation is impossible to legislate for.

[ricardo 7,343]

Just now, Creative Midfielder said:

I imagine that the odds on that a very long indeed 😀

And hung drawn and quartered if they go to Burger King.

[ricardo 7,343]

continued good news

[ron obvious 1,499]

1 minute ago, Aggy said:

Isn’t that exactly the point here though?

If he did it because the rules benefit nobody then he’s completely undermining government policy (and the law). He’s not just a normal bloke, he’s the government’s lead advisor. On his advice, the government have been telling the general public that these rules are for the benefit of everyone.
 

Either the rules are important and benefit people - in which case he should follow them. Or they don’t benefit anyone, and everything he and his government have been saying for the last three months is tosh. 

The rules have been imposed arbitrarily & inconsistently. What do the laws (as enacted by Parliament) actually say? 

In reality what is driving a lot of people is sheer terror. I'm afraid the tales of noble self sacrifice by the British public have been largely overdone.

It's a horrible situation. let's hope we get out of it before much more damage is done.

[ron obvious 1,499]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

And hung drawn and quartered if they go to Burger King.

Burn them! Burn them all!! (hideous cackling ensues ...)

[Yellow Fever 3,745]

11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I'm not at all sure it works that way either.

The chances of coming into contact with anyone in London are far greater - I doubt if he could have self isolated as effectively in London as he did in an isolated cottage on his father's property.

And if a bunch of covid infected Londoners moved in next to me I'd give them a wide berth.

I'll let you ponder it Ron - he 'risked' or was happy to needlessly risk many people (not least apparently his own nieces and their families) - anything could have happened (and did - the hospital visit) on his long journey and day out.

Even the local police (who were no doubt informed of an important visitor hence extra security concerns) may have had to add 'extra'  patrols. The list of potential unnecessary consequences is endless.

He broke the commonly understood and accepted rules - of his own making!

By the way - his wife should also be summarily dismissed from the Spectator. Equally guilty.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[ricardo 7,343]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

The rules have been imposed arbitrarily & inconsistently. What do the laws (as enacted by Parliament) actually say? 

In reality what is driving a lot of people is sheer terror. I'm afraid the tales of noble self sacrifice by the British public have been largely overdone.

It's a horrible situation. let's hope we get out of it before much more damage is done.

Seems to be dying away now in Western Europe Ron. A long way to go in some other parts of the globe that got hit later.

[Aggy 752]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

The rules have been imposed arbitrarily & inconsistently. What do the laws (as enacted by Parliament) actually say? 

 

The rules regarding lockdown were brought in using emergency powers by the government. Parliament didn’t have a say.

So I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying. Is it that the rules which the government imposed taking away people’s liberty, without any input from the elected parliament, were an absolute mess in the first place? 
 

Then, what about the extremely clear advice to “stay home”. Was that just optional after all? Perhaps the government’s messaging should have been clearer - we were allowed to travel 300 miles and see your family if your wife has a cough. 

[Yellow Fever 3,745]

4 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Burn them! Burn them all!! (hideous cackling ensues ...)

No - we need Covid-19 guinea pigs for an unethical experiment  - who better - let's see if the vaccine works on them with a known deliberate infection even. Can you catch it a 2nd (or possibly 1st - who knows what lies) time ? Might make people think twice about flaunting the rules. Yes I'm quite right-wing on some things when common yobs are concerned.

 

[Bill 1,788]

Reading the righties absurd toadying reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the Piranha Brothers (Krays)

The thrust of the joke was gormless EastEnders trying to defend the actions of the brothers

 

"But we have photos of them nailing your head to the table''

'yeah, but they had to do that.... I had transgressed the unwritten rule

"what was that ? "

'I dunno, it was unwritten....''

[ron obvious 1,499]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

I'll let you ponder it Ron - he 'risked' or was happy to needlessly risk many people (not least apparently his own nieces and their families) - anything could have happened (and did - the hospital visit) on his long journey and day out.

Even the local police (who were no doubt informed of an important visitor hence extra security concerns) may have had to add 'extra'  patrols. The list of potential unnecessary consequences is endless.

He broke to commonly understood and accepted rules - of his own making!

By the way - hs wife should also be summarily dismissed from the Spectator. Equally guilty.

I would suggest that the dangers - to him, his family, & everyone else - would have been greater in London where isolation is incredibly difficult. Think of the vastly greater chance of coming into contact with many user surfaces for example.

He has an unfortunate face (🙂) & an even more unfortunate manner. He is hated by a large proportion of the population because of Brexit. The media hate him to a man (& woman). They're desperate to skewer him. I doubt this'll be the last attempt.

[Bill 1,788]

12 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Burn them! Burn them all!! (hideous cackling ensues ...)

blimey, you almost sound like hand crank😉

[ron obvious 1,499]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

No - we need Covid-19 guinea pigs for an unethical experiment  - who better - let's see if the vaccine works on them with a known deliberate infection even. Can you catch it a 2nd (or possibly 1st - who knows what lies) time ? Might make people think twice about flaunting the rules. Yes I'm quite right-wing on some things when common yobs are concerned.

 

I suggested controlled infection as a way of providing a healthy work force a while ago. I also said I'd volunteer for such a programme.

BTW it's flouting, not flaunting.

[Yellow Fever 3,745]

1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

I suggested controlled infection as a way of providing a healthy work force a while ago. I also said I'd volunteer for such a programme.

BTW it's flouting, not flaunting.

In Cummings case flaunting is now correct ! 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Yellow Fever