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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

The problem with the newspaper reports is they tried to over egg an already good story. First the Guardians headline of "police talk to Cummings about the lockdown" gets exposed as inaccurate, they didn't. Then they uneccesarily put in a second trip which they couldn't verify but left it hanging as an allegation. 

They had a reasonable story but as soon as one bit falls away the whole lot becomes questionable and thats all you need to cast doubt.

Absolutely spot on, the media blew it, as I said earlier. They need to learn a few tips from some fellow posters about landing a fish, or a shark, or an eel.  Once part of their case is shown to be inaccurate the credibility of rest of it gets tainted, any decent barrister will tell you.They also missed an opportunity to forensically deconstruct his argument yesterday when they had the chance, basically the journalists were not clever enough and he was banking on that. Once that rose garden farce was over then its easy to deflect anything further by claiming that they had their chance to question him.

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1 minute ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

The fact that he offered not a hint of an apology has angered people because it looks arrogant.

Cummings hasn't offered an apology as he claims that what he did was both legal and within the guidance. If that is his honest view then any apology would be false. 

As lakey says everyone can have their own view on the honesty of this claim. 

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30 minutes ago, king canary said:

Now we've got claims he's edited his old blog to make it look like he predicted an outbreak like this. Bizarre man. 

Think it's more than "claims" buddy - there is absolute evidence he doctored them.  The same day he returned from his jolly up to Durham in fact.

 

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1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Cummings hasn't offered an apology as he claims that what he did was both legal and within the guidance. If that is his honest view then any apology would be false. 

As lakey says everyone can have their own view on the honesty of this claim. 

That's the view of Johnson and Gove (last night and this morning).

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The same hapless toadies desperately trying to defend Cummings - all to no avail, or credit to them.

As I stated, it is the attempt at a cover up that is causing, and will cause, the most damage, as

 

"Mary Wakefield said when her husband fell ill (March 28) couldn’t get out of bed for 10 days.


But in his statement yesterday Cummings said he drove to hospital to collect his son on Apr 3 "

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This sort of nonsense has been going on for four years. I am glad that some are starting to wake up to it but also saddened that some of the same people are desperately trying to cover it over. 

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15 minutes ago, king canary said:

But isn't the point that during these circumstances you have to think beyond what is best for you and your family? What has ****ed off so many people is that they've followed the rules, often against their instincts as to what might be best for them and their family, only for the architect of said rules to disobey them and then claim that he did nothing wrong. 

Exactly - especially important if you’re the senior advisor advising the Government in respect of a policy where we are supposed to be ‘all in it together’ and which has acknowledged people will die, people won’t be able to attend funerals of loved ones, sacrifices will have to be made etc.

Only the plebs have to make them though apparently.  

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On 13/05/2020 at 16:57, T said:

UK cases are still very high and they really need to sort out the test and trace where they have only started recruiting Why.? Ideally you would keep heavy restrictions in place until you are down to hundreds rather than thousands of cases and then release and keep low with track and trace. The UK is a t least a couple of the best performing countries on this.
 

Other countries are planning on taking my Euros summer but not desperate enough to take sterling as Hancock has indicated. 

Spain now indicating they are happy to take sterling, Germany likely to put the UK in amongst the countries whose citizens do not require quarantine ?? , I think Greece will follow soon and then plenty of others.

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14 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Exactly - especially important if you’re the senior advisor advising the Government in respect of a policy where we are supposed to be ‘all in it together’ and which has acknowledged people will die, people won’t be able to attend funerals of loved ones, sacrifices will have to be made etc.

Only the plebs have to make them though apparently.  

 

Whatever your politics I think that this issue is a litmus test for those that have standards and those that don't.

It's that simple.

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17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Absolutely spot on, the media blew it, as I said earlier. They need to learn a few tips from some fellow posters about landing a fish, or a shark, or an eel.  Once part of their case is shown to be inaccurate the credibility of rest of it gets tainted, any decent barrister will tell you.They also missed an opportunity to forensically deconstruct his argument yesterday when they had the chance, basically the journalists were not clever enough and he was banking on that. Once that rose garden farce was over then its easy to deflect anything further by claiming that they had their chance to question him.

Media “blew” what? 

It isn’t the media’s job to land a fish. It’s their job to report and comment and try to provide evidence, facts and arguments for people to make their own minds up about important issues. I couldn’t care less if the media think he’s “guilty” or “innocent” of anything. They aren’t trying to craft a legal argument, they haven’t taken him to court, and this idea that the media are somehow judge, jury and executioner is half the problem nowadays - people don’t think for themselves. (Not suggesting that’s true of you specifically VW but many people in general.)

I don’t need the media to make a watertight legal argument that would stand up in a court for me to make up my mind and, likewise, I don’t believe that just because Cummings (or anyone else) says one thing that they are being one hundred per cent truthful.

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21 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Spain now indicating they are happy to take sterling, Germany likely to put the UK in amongst the countries whose citizens do not require quarantine ?? , I think Greece will follow soon and then plenty of others.

I  think they'll definitely want Euros in Spain. Issue will be flights from the UK in July - and then return quarantines!

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12 minutes ago, Bill said:

The same hapless toadies desperately trying to defend Cummings - all to no avail, or credit to them.

As I stated, it is the attempt at a cover up that is causing, and will cause, the most damage, as

 

"Mary Wakefield said when her husband fell ill (March 28) couldn’t get out of bed for 10 days.


But in his statement yesterday Cummings said he drove to hospital to collect his son on Apr 3 "

We are now left with a lame duck PM. One who does not have the authority to sack Cummings - as that is how it will be portrayed, and to be honest, is the blunt fact.

The 'not too bright' will have that when this story gets over taken by other events it will all be forgotten. It won't, just as with Prince Andrew the damage is done.

The best you can say about the glaring in consistences is that they are due to misunderstanding. But that moves us into Lady Bracknell territory, only this is umpteen discrepancies. And more are emerging as the cover up falls apart quicker than a paper tissue fig leaf in a rain storm.

That so much was put out before this story broke, points to a planned cover up - which even to the most dim (on here) should indicate that Cummings et all know they were in the wrong.

I think the Chinese have a word for it - schadenfreude. The delight here being in watching the gormless toadies trying so desperately to spin this. So hopelessly that in comparison Monty Python's parrot sketch looks like a David Attenborough award winning documentary.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bill said:

We are now left with a lame duck PM. One who does not have the authority to sack Cummings - as that is how it will be portrayed, and to be honest, is the blunt fact.

The 'not too bright' will have that when this story gets over taken by other events it will all be forgotten. It won't, just as with Prince Andrew the damage is done.

The best you can say about the glaring in consistences is that they are due to misunderstanding. But that moves us into Lady Bracknell territory, only this is umpteen discrepancies. And more are emerging as the cover up falls apart quicker than a paper tissue fig leaf in a rain storm.

That so much was put out before this story broke, points to a planned cover up - which even to the most dim (on here) should indicate that Cummings et all know they were in the wrong.

I think the Chinese have a word for it - schadenfreude. The delight here being in watching the gormless toadies trying so desperately to spin this. So hopelessly that in comparison Monty Python's parrot sketch looks like a David Attenborough award winning documentary.

 

 

Schadenfreude (German) -  I'm sure the Chinese are laughing at the ineptness of the UK (sorry) English government but otherwise spot on!

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What Cummings has done is put Family before Country, which , on the face of it no one would normally argue. But this is a global pandemic. Those rules (which Cummings was responsible for) were laid out to reflect the exact opposite of that.

 Other people have followed  those rules and put Country before Family and suffered irreparable trauma. 

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2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Schadenfreude (German) -  I'm sure the Chinese are laughing at the ineptness of the UK (sorry) English government but otherwise spot on!

err yes, it was a joke - but thanks otherwise 😀

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The cummings story will go on and on.  The government though will.probably only care if it starts to eat into its support. If it just circulates amongst the activists it wont matter

In pink un terms the government wont care with creative midfielder, keelans granddad or herman post as they never had nor were ever likely rlto have their support.  Jools is probably in the bag anyway so their focus would be on LDC. He is a moderate and open to argument. What he thinks is as close to an barometer as we have on this

 

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Just now, Barbe bleu said:

The cummings story will go on and on.  The government though will.probably only care if it starts to eat into its support. If it just circulates amongst the activists it wont matter

It already very obviously has cut through well past activists.

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Just now, ron obvious said:

As a matter of interest, who exactly has been put at greater risk by his actions?

 

The population of Durham would be the main people.

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Just now, king canary said:

The population of Durham would be the main people.

Who amongst them came into contact with him?

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Just now, king canary said:

It already very obviously has cut through well past activists.

Yes - scything through the traditional (and not so as traditional as well) Tory ranks like a knife through butter separating the wheat from the chaff as we speak.

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3 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

As a matter of interest, who exactly has been put at greater risk by his actions?

 

Any one at the petrol or service stations that he stopped off at.

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1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

Who amongst them came into contact with him?

The hospital staff who looked after his son.

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1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

Who amongst them came into contact with him?

Shall we start with the local hospital ?

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He says he didn't stop on the way up. He was out of isolation on the way back.

He may be lying of course. Neither you nor I know whether that is so.

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

The hospital staff who looked after his son.

What would have happened in London?

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25 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Media “blew” what? 

It isn’t the media’s job to land a fish. It’s their job to report and comment and try to provide evidence, facts and arguments for people to make their own minds up about important issues. I couldn’t care less if the media think he’s “guilty” or “innocent” of anything. They aren’t trying to craft a legal argument, they haven’t taken him to court, and this idea that the media are somehow judge, jury and executioner is half the problem nowadays - people don’t think for themselves. (Not suggesting that’s true of you specifically VW but many people in general.)

I don’t need the media to make a watertight legal argument that would stand up in a court for me to make up my mind and, likewise, I don’t believe that just because Cummings (or anyone else) says one thing that they are being one hundred per cent truthful.

The media had the chance to nail him with questions about his trip to test out his eyesight, it was an open goal. 
I certainly agree with you about the role of the media, sadly in recent years and in the absence of any decent political opposition media scrutiny has been what we have come to rely on. 
I do see a little change in that direction now with Starmer at the helm.
As for you not needing a watertight argument to convince you, that is fine, but with someone like Cummings it would need a watertight argument and a “nailed him” moment to cause him to be pushed by the weight of massive opinion into doing the right thing and resign.There was an opportunity for that yesterday and it was missed. Nothing that follows will now have the same impact, unless of course some new killer point arises, which somehow I doubt. 
 

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