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2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The Sunday figures are always lower due to the way hospitals report. Expect higher figures for Tuesday and Wednesday. 

Very true, but the 121 figure is significantly lower than last Sunday's so, strange as it seems to say, it is good news.

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8 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Well done Indy, also totally correct,  fact that 121 deaths from Coronavirus today, positive that its coming down for sure, sad that its still 121 deaths to many and sad that as you say, its just a side note in this topic now. Hundreds die, yet pages and pages of Cummings Goings...

Alright,  let the waffle continue and Coronavirus tragedies  stay as a sideshow, its only a football forum after all.

Encouraging figures, albeit tragic, must remember its a bank holiday so probably falsely low figure but still worthy of note.

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On 15/04/2020 at 15:52, Barbe bleu said:

Mark Y asked if a confidence gauge could be added to statements to distinguish known facts from assessments and then so that the level of confidence of that assessment could be known.

It seems that it had not been proved that there was any additional spread as a result of Cheltenham but your assessment is that it is "highly likely" or "almost certain" to use government speak that some will have occurred.

I agree that spread from the festival was likely or highly likely but I wouldn't be able to provide absolute evidence.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-52797002

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8 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Does seem a bit odd describing 121 deaths as a 'side note' though doesn't it.

Only one person who has described it as such. 

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Zero deaths reported for yesterday in ROI, possibly one or two extra today due to weekend ( wasn't bank holiday here). Very positive indeed.  5 km limit may be raised to 20 km a bit earlier. Still crystal clear instructions from non govt.👍

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1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Zero deaths reported for yesterday in ROI, possibly one or two extra today due to weekend ( wasn't bank holiday here). Very positive indeed.  5 km limit may be raised to 20 km a bit earlier. Still crystal clear instructions from non govt.👍

Good news

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Looks to be  on the wane here and the rest of western Europe.

Still rising sharply in Russia, India, Mexico, Brazil and a few other Latin American countries.

No real sign of any second wave yet.

Edited by ricardo

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10 hours ago, Icecream Snow said:
10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

To tell the truth I'm fed up with hearing about it.

Then stop posting on a thread about it

Except the reason I am fed up about it is that people won't leave it alone.  It's like all these witch hunts that get their momentum from social media and whipped up by the general media.  They ignore the facts and continue behaving as if none of the mitigating circumstances exist. 

The bottom line is why he went up to Durham.  You either think he was genuinely worried - fearful even - for his family or you think he went on a two week jaunt to see his parents. If it was the former and he was genuinely fearful, then you have to have some compassion for the situation - there is NOTHING that a father/husband will not do to protect his family, special advisor or not.  If you think he was just off to get away from it all then yes, you have a right to be angry. 

 

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10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Looks to on the wane here and the rest of western Europe.

Still rising sharply in Russia, India, Mexico, Brazil and a few other Latin American countries.

No real sign of any second wave yet.

Thought you were talking about Cummings / Johnson and Populism there for a moment on the wane....

Keep your wallet ready - position remains untenable - first ministerial resignation already!

Edited by Yellow Fever

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It’s now turned into Political Points and will not go away in the foreseeable future, we haven’t even heard much from the Krankie lookalike  yet

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8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Except the reason I am fed up about it is that people won't leave it alone.  It's like all these witch hunts that get their momentum from social media and whipped up by the general media.  They ignore the facts and continue behaving as if none of the mitigating circumstances exist. 

The bottom line is why he went up to Durham.  You either think he was genuinely worried - fearful even - for his family or you think he went on a two week jaunt to see his parents. If it was the former and he was genuinely fearful, then you have to have some compassion for the situation - there is NOTHING that a father/husband will not do to protect his family, special advisor or not.  If you think he was just off to get away from it all then yes, you have a right to be angry. 

 

A lot of people think it’s the latter so are still discussing it. You’ve answered your own question basically.

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12 hours ago, Jools said:

Kinnock took his missus to his parents to say happy birthday to his dad. He was deemed not to have broken regulations.

Cummings was instrumental in creating the regulations, Kinnock was not.

Cummings took his wife and family on a birthday trip to a beauty spot. He broke his own regulations.

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9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Except the reason I am fed up about it is that people won't leave it alone.  It's like all these witch hunts that get their momentum from social media and whipped up by the general media.  They ignore the facts and continue behaving as if none of the mitigating circumstances exist. 

The bottom line is why he went up to Durham.  You either think he was genuinely worried - fearful even - for his family or you think he went on a two week jaunt to see his parents. If it was the former and he was genuinely fearful, then you have to have some compassion for the situation - there is NOTHING that a father/husband will not do to protect his family, special advisor or not.  If you think he was just off to get away from it all then yes, you have a right to be angry. 

 

And you think he’s done nothing wrong?

Went to 10 Downing Street after he thought his wife had Covid 19. Shouldn’t have left the house.

Drove 260 miles without stopping, after the government instruction was very clear.

He timed his visit with two birthdays, not mentioned.

He drove thirty minutes with a small child and wife when he claimed had poor eyesight, while still in lockdown situation. Then sat by a river with his family when everyone else was being stopped from sitting in one area!

He then had to stop on his 30 minute return cause his 4 year old needed the toilet yet didn’t need to stop during a 5 hour journey.

I understand that in some views technically he’ll argue the case, but the guys wife tried to cover this up, she wasn’t very honest, now he came out in an arrogant and very poor worded statement which was appalling.

He should have showed humility to all those families really effected by this virus and not used it to defend his actions. He should have said he panicked took this action which in hindsight was wrong and he should have apologised to the Public especially the critical workers as his actions could have had the potential to infect others. Simple show humility to the public.

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7 minutes ago, Indy said:

And you think he’s done nothing wrong?

Went to 10 Downing Street after he thought his wife had Covid 19. Shouldn’t have left the house.

Drove 260 miles without stopping, after the government instruction was very clear.

He timed his visit with two birthdays, not mentioned.

He drove thirty minutes with a small child and wife when he claimed had poor eyesight, while still in lockdown situation. Then sat by a river with his family when everyone else was being stopped from sitting in one area!

He then had to stop on his 30 minute return cause his 4 year old needed the toilet yet didn’t need to stop during a 5 hour journey.

I understand that in some views technically he’ll argue the case, but the guys wife tried to cover this up, she wasn’t very honest, now he came out in an arrogant and very poor worded statement which was appalling.

He should have showed humility to all those families really effected by this virus and not used it to defend his actions. He should have said he panicked took this action which in hindsight was wrong and he should have apologised to the Public especially the critical workers as his actions could have had the potential to infect others. Simple show humility to the public.

That is spot on.

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It's simply a matter of leadership.

You lead by example - not do as I say not as I do.

For what it's worth the whole Cummings fable stinks - there are so many implausible issues with it that the local police let alone a prosecution barrister (know any) could smell a rat a mile off.

It was almost as if Cummings, being a 'master' strategist, had a lot of planned as a what if - car full of fuel, obliging nieces,  nice pad in the country to escape too and hide away. It was not a spur of the moment poor decision. I needn't go on as it only gets worse for Cummings and his wife and the day trip. I guess they all traiped to the local hospital (with Covid symptoms) when their son was ill too overnight and stayed? 

Then we have Johnson - again it's a matter of leadership. He offers none.

Cummings should of offered to resign or been fired. The rules, the spirit of the rules are clear (no - I'm not listening to feeble minded  excuses). Remember these were the days when the Police were driving around moving/dispersing people from sitting down on park benches! 

Trying - as some desperately do - to simply sweep under the carpet such outrageous behaviour to 'excuse' and protect our failing leaders does nobody any credit least of all them.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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12 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

A final point (at least for tonight) which I have’t seen made in the wake of Cummings explanation. If this was all above board and entirely in line with the rules, and not at all illegal, and Cummings thought so at the time, why didn’t his wife detail it all in her Specsavers, er sorry, Spectator article, rather than writing it in such a way that everyone was left with the strong impression they had stayed in London the whole time?

 

 

I hadn't realised Cummings himself had written a piece for The Spectator about being in lockdown in which he also makes no mention of it not having taken place at their London home...

Also of relevance, some months ago a journalist read through all of Cummings' blogs from the last decade. Many thousands of words on any number of subjects, and came up with a mixed verdict. But noticed one omission - Cummings hardly ever seemed to mention the role of the rule of law.

Cummings is practically silent about jurisprudence and the law. (In his diatribes against the always obstructive civil service, “legal arguments” are occasionally mentioned, but only to be swatted aside as another typical ruse by these masters of delay.) This is significant because legal systems and legal reasoning involve attempts to draw up general rules and procedures to govern human interaction.

The law, especially in a common-law system, is a historical enterprise in a way that Cummings should, in principle, approve of. That is to say, it seeks constantly to modify the agreed rules in the light of new circumstances; in this respect, it is one large feedback loop. And it attempts to take into account not just the purposes informing any given individual’s actions, but the likely effect of such actions on the interests of others, now and in the future.

[But] Cummings writes from the perspective of someone who’s in a hurry to get the thing done, never from the perspective of the judge who has been schooled to reflect on the potentially damaging consequences in the future of licensing this particular action in the present.

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

The reality is that I think you are flogging a dead horse.

Somehow Ricardo we've got to get this 'government' or lack thereof to start acting like a British government.

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11 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Somehow Ricardo we've got to get this 'government' or lack thereof to start acting like a British government.

Ladbrokes Stay 1-5

Go 3-1

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23 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The reality is that I think you are flogging a dead horse.

You can hope. 

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12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

You've got to take away all the hype and frenzy that has built up around this story and see the human element.  So much of what we have been told by the media was wrong. 

Yes there were a couple of pieces in the Spectator that disgracefully and widely.  inaccurately reported the Cummings Durham jaunt. One was written by the aristocrat Mary Wakefield (baronet father lives in castle, ancestors include former PM Earl Grey and Governor generals of Kenya & Canada). She gave a detailed account of the couples lock down experience.......

Didn't once mention going to Durham or Barnard Castle

She is Mrs Cummings

Why didn't she talk about the trip. Obviously because they knew it was wrong.

They are hypocrits and liars - you have been taken for a mug @lake district canary

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9 minutes ago, Indy said:

And you think he’s done nothing wrong?

He should have showed humility to all those families really effected by this virus and not used it to defend his actions. He should have said he panicked took this action which in hindsight was wrong and he should have apologised to the Public especially the critical workers as his actions could have had the potential to infect others. Simple show humility to the public.

I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong, only that there were circumstances that may have affected his decisions.  He could have done as you suggest and be a bit more humble and apologised, but if the circumstances were as he said - to do with wife's illness, his likelihood of him getting the virus and the real possibility the child would be on it's own, then he will think he did the right thing - and if you think you have done the right thing you won't want to apologise for it. 

Unpopular view of it, yes, but by far the worst thing I have seen in the whole saga is the sight of members of the media falling over themselves outside his house day after day, flouting the social distancing rules openly and without caring.

 

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36 minutes ago, dj11 said:

That is spot on.

Just for an example imagine the stick had this been say Jack Grealish! I’m sure people wouldn’t be so understanding!

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong, only that there were circumstances that may have affected his decisions.  He could have done as you suggest and be a bit more humble and apologised, but if the circumstances were as he said - to do with wife's illness, his likelihood of him getting the virus and the real possibility the child would be on it's own, then he will think he did the right thing - and if you think you have done the right thing you won't want to apologise for it. 

Unpopular view of it, yes, but by far the worst thing I have seen in the whole saga is the sight of members of the media falling over themselves outside his house day after day, flouting the social distancing rules openly and without caring.

 

Nah you’re on one of your wind up loops again Lakey so we’ll differ, like above I bet had this been Grealish you’d be so understanding! We’ll leave it there.👍

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

You can hope. 

Look at history for a clue Herman.

Blair did the same hanging on to Allastair Campbell.

Everything moves on as other events take priority.

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Is there any more news on the A66 upgrade...it'll knock some time off my drive down to Norwich and I can swing by Barnard Castle for an eye test on the way?😀

Apples

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3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Unpopular view of it, yes, but by far the worst thing I have seen in the whole saga is the sight of members of the media falling over themselves outside his house day after day, flouting the social distancing rules openly and without caring.

Far the worst thing!!!!???? Worse than thousands of unnecessary deaths caused by delaying lock down.....get some perspective man.

Btw the way the Guardian & Mirror have tried for SIX WEEKS to get him to go on the record with his side of the story. He didn't because he doesn't think the little people matter. He thinks he is above the law.

He could stop this now by resigning. He won't because he thinks you don't matter.

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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Look at history for a clue Herman.

Blair did the same hanging on to Allastair Campbell.

Everything moves on as other events take priority.

True, but it also true that Blair's reputation never recovered.

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11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I didn't say he didn't do anything wrong, only that there were circumstances that may have affected his decisions.  He could have done as you suggest and be a bit more humble and apologised, but if the circumstances were as he said - to do with wife's illness, his likelihood of him getting the virus and the real possibility the child would be on it's own, then he will think he did the right thing - and if you think you have done the right thing you won't want to apologise for it. 

Unpopular view of it, yes, but by far the worst thing I have seen in the whole saga is the sight of members of the media falling over themselves outside his house day after day, flouting the social distancing rules openly and without caring.

 

Wouldn’t completely disagree with you on this LDC. As I said before the press conference circus yesterday, if he just came out weeks ago and held his hands up, saying yes I broke the spirit of the rules (and probably the actual law too) but I did it because I was worried about my son, then I think a lot less damage to his position and the government would have been done. 

The problem is that he is the main government advisor, advising the government on a lockdown strategy that has seen so many people have to make far bigger sacrifices in far worse conditions than Cummings. Let’s not forget when they drove nearly 300 miles, he had no symptoms and his wife had mild symptoms but no fever or a cough - thousands if not millions of people have had worse than that and not travelled anywhere to stick to the spirit of the rules. 

For him to then come out initially and say things like “I don’t care what it looks like” has put him past the point of getting any sympathy.

As I said yesterday, the whole thing has been handled in an entirely amateur way and Cummings himself must have damaged his own reputation internally quite significantly. The obvious thing to do would have been to basically say what he said yesterday but say it weeks ago, before spouting off to the media with sound bites such as “I don’t care what it looks like”. 

Edited by Aggy

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