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6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isnt the big story today not the Cummings thing but the fact that we caught up with italy in deaths per head of population?

One would think so wouldn't one, BB, but no -  Real questions and effort should be put into working out how we can put together a viable exit strategy from this mess, but no, cheap political point scoring takes priority where the Left is concerned.

They are a disgrace.

Edited by Jools

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14 minutes ago, Jools said:

One would think so wouldn't one, BB, but no -  Real questions and effort should be put into working out how we can put together a viable exit strategy from this mess, but no, cheap political point scoring takes priority where the Left is concerned.

They are a disgrace.

The pull of this guy on the left is incredible.

Whether or not a guy had good reason to drive a car should not be as big a story of the fact that we have over taken italy in terms of deaths per head. The horrid symbolism of this is what should matter.

Perhaps outside of the activist bubbles it is what matters.

Edited by Barbe bleu

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32 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Spotted in Durham on Sunday 19th a.m and from this link in London Monday 20th .... seems a pretty plausible timeline Jools. 

Also spotted near Durham on Sunday April 12. So did he bring his wife and child back to London where he was photographed on the 14th, or is it just possible he left them up there, and went back up on Friday 17th and all three drove down together on the 19th..... and why did his journalist wife create a fictional story about it all? 

All in all it needs a proper explanation and not just blowing it off as 'fake news"  

Guardian hacks at lunch:

4d48b7be-389a-4cb9-af72-e62f02422b3a-718

🙃

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and the poor righties (which ever name they post under) have allowed their stupidity to miss one of the most obvious points, which is

if this was ok why did No. 10 and Cummings not reply to the repeated questions put to them by the Guardian and Mirror weeks back when asked ?

why not put out a statement explaining what happened and how it was not breaking the rules.... instead of having Cummings wife writing up a story in the Spectator that was clearly a lie, and having No. 10 deny police contact ?

ie ' it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on"

So why the attempt at a cover up, if there was nothing to cover up, as the lick spittles on here claim ?

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9 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The pull of this guy on the left is incredible.

Whether or not a guy had good reason to drive a car should not be as big a story of the fact that we have over taken italy in terms of deaths per head. The horrid symbolism of this is what should matter.

Perhaps outside of the activist bubbles it is what matters.

in an uncertain world you can always rely on hand crank (whichever name he is using) to talk bollox

in this case we now have to believe that the Express, Telegraph and Mail are part of the left 🤪

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I made the point a few days ago that the old cliche about politicians - that they all lie - actually used not to be true. They would spin and dissemble and massage statistics, but usually not outright lie.

They do now, or at least the populists do, because populism is by definition built on a fable, and truth - tedious, prosaic truth  - threatens to undercut any fable. You could not have  better example than  Johnson (apart obviously from Trump) of someone whose whole political career has been a truth-free fable.

But what has happened with Johnson, and even more so with Trump, is that other ministers and the press officers have got drawn into defending the indefensible, to the point of lying themselves, or as near as dammit. Work for a populist and you get besmirched.

The Number 10 statement, for example, on the question of whether the police had ever spoken to the Cummings family seems to be either a lie or a cavalier knee jerk defence made without checking, on the basis that it is better to defend than admit to the slightest error, so it really doesn’t matter where the truth lies.

 

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16 minutes ago, Bill said:

in an uncertain world you can always rely on hand crank (whichever name he is using) to talk bollox

in this case we now have to believe that the Express, Telegraph and Mail are part of the left 🤪

 

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25 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I made the point a few days ago that the old cliche about politicians - that they all lie - actually used not to be true. They would spin and dissemble and massage statistics, but usually not outright lie.

They do now, or at least the populists do, because populism is by definition built on a fable, and truth - tedious, prosaic truth  - threatens to undercut any fable. You could not have  better example than  Johnson (apart obviously from Trump) of someone whose whole political career has been a truth-free fable.

But what has happened with Johnson, and even more so with Trump, is that other ministers and the press officers have got drawn into defending the indefensible, to the point of lying themselves, or as near as dammit. Work for a populist and you get besmirched.

The Number 10 statement, for example, on the question of whether the police had ever spoken to the Cummings family seems to be either a lie or a cavalier knee jerk defence made without checking, on the basis that it is better to defend than admit to the slightest error, so it really doesn’t matter where the truth lies.

 

It's disheartening to see a person I once regarded as one of the more intelligent Lefties descend into a gibbering idiot 🙁

Has Steven Kinnock resigned yet, Purple?

Edited by Jools

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3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isnt the big story today not the Cummings thing but the fact that we caught up with italy in deaths per head of population?

We passed Italy in deaths per capita at least a week ago. Remember the charts I posted? Nobody “on the right” seemed to be very concerned about that then - so why now? 

The whole point of the Cummings story is not so much that he lied - we expect that from him - but that the Government’s response may destroy the British public’s buy-in to the need for a lockdown - and hence cause that death rate per capita to increase, not decrease. 

This is not a “right” v’s “left” issue. It’s about one set of rules for everyone to follow and not  “those rules are for thee, not me” 

Edited by Surfer
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10 hours ago, BigFish said:

Missed again, they may forget this incident but Cummings will create more incidents. Each of these will erode trust in Johnson because Cummings is unelected, arrogant and doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

I'll stick to my view which remains that the public will forget all about it.

If he creates more "incidents", then depending on what they are and what effect they have on the public, my viewpoint may change, assuming he is still in his position.

But if he does survive this, and it looks increasingly unlikely that he will, in the future he may well remain in his position but more out of the public eye and so may not be as associated to any "incidents" as he has been.

Edited by Mark .Y.

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Poor old Shapps is having to do both the Marr and Ridge shows this morning. As he is my local MP I really should tune in.😀

 

Harry And Paul, Dragons Den - Hip Hop Halphabet GIF | Gfycat

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7 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I made the point a few days ago that the old cliche about politicians - that they all lie - actually used not to be true. They would spin and dissemble and massage statistics, but usually not outright lie.

They do now, or at least the populists do, because populism is by definition built on a fable, and truth - tedious, prosaic truth  - threatens to undercut any fable. You could not have  better example than  Johnson (apart obviously from Trump) of someone whose whole political career has been a truth-free fable.

But what has happened with Johnson, and even more so with Trump, is that other ministers and the press officers have got drawn into defending the indefensible, to the point of lying themselves, or as near as dammit. Work for a populist and you get besmirched.

The Number 10 statement, for example, on the question of whether the police had ever spoken to the Cummings family seems to be either a lie or a cavalier knee jerk defence made without checking, on the basis that it is better to defend than admit to the slightest error, so it really doesn’t matter where the truth lies.

 

Absolutely. This is a government that was formed on the basis of lying and deceiving the British public about Brexit. Many of them don’t even care about Brexit but power. For Cummings it was an experiment to see if he could fool the British public which he has shown once again he holds in utter contempt. And the hard right on here are so blinded by their ideology and contempt for other people they are happy to be taken in and defend these people . Time they woke up but they won’t but hopefully as a result of this pandemic more people will realise that the hard right  are unfit to govern as demonstrated by their poor performance in respect to Brexit and to the pandemic in the UK and the rest of the world. . It was not as if they were suddenly going to become more honest or capable. Hard right populism May well get you elected but doesn’t make you fit to govern as has been demonstrated in the US Brazil and the UK. 

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8 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The pull of this guy on the left is incredible.

Whether or not a guy had good reason to drive a car should not be as big a story of the fact that we have over taken italy in terms of deaths per head. The horrid symbolism of this is what should matter.

Perhaps outside of the activist bubbles it is what matters.

I’m not sure your attempt, although to be be applauded in my view, to try and get back to talking about the virus is going to land on fertile ground. Most prefer to use this thread now to promote their political views, as they don’t get much attention an the Brexit thread anymore.

But to be honest I must confess that there is some relevance in the Cummins and goings to the topic if it does effect the public’s confidence in and adherence to the Government advice. I suspect it won’t, those that wish to comply will and those like Bill ( and Cummins) who think they know better won’t.

i tend to think this is more of a media bubble than a genuine concern of the public, but we will see, he has made so many enemies in the media world that there is a risk the media will go too far in their criticism and in fact gain him public sympathy. 

For my part, I detest the man and would lose no sleep whatsoever if he had to leave with his tail between his legs. 

Edited by Van wink

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The thing I dont get in all of this, is why is Cummings apparently worth all this trouble to Johnson? They've firmly hitched their wagon to defending him now and from a political perspective it seems madness. As others have said this isn't left v right- my staunchly Tory voting in-laws have been appalled by this on the basis they've firmly observed the lockdown and this cretin hasn't.

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

The thing I dont get in all of this, is why is Cummings apparently worth all this trouble to Johnson? They've firmly hitched their wagon to defending him now and from a political perspective it seems madness. As others have said this isn't left v right- my staunchly Tory voting in-laws have been appalled by this on the basis they've firmly observed the lockdown and this cretin hasn't.

I think most people have been appalled KC, I wonder if this event would now result in your in-laws deciding to disregard government advice, I suspect not but we will see.

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53 minutes ago, Herman said:

Poor old Shapps is having to do both the Marr and Ridge shows this morning. As he is my local MP I really should tune in.😀

 

Harry And Paul, Dragons Den - Hip Hop Halphabet GIF | Gfycat

I expect he really really wants to be Michael Green at the moment. 😀

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37 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I expect he really really wants to be Michael Green at the moment. 😀

Poor old Shapps my a*se.

He’s a slimy toad who always denies anything that might make him look bad. My sympathies that he’s your MP.

Hope he gets skewered today. 😀

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10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The pull of this guy on the left is incredible.

Whether or not a guy had good reason to drive a car should not be as big a story of the fact that we have over taken italy in terms of deaths per head. The horrid symbolism of this is what should matter.

Perhaps outside of the activist bubbles it is what matters.

I wouldn't get drawn in to discussions about left or right Bb. It's an artifice to try and draw lines, to place people in categories, to separate posters into camps. You can be critical of an administration and praise actions. Of course people like to label (sometimes even themselves).

Those comparative deaths per million (per capita) have been closing between the UK and Italy for weeks, likewise soon we will get close to Spain. Yet, the data isn't accurate and as Surfer has pointed out it's the excess death data that will be more instructive.

Yet, this Cummings story cannot be ignored, nor seen as irrelevant to the virus discussion. My reaction to him on the face of it, is a dislike, but then I've never met him. He may have positive attributes I like, who knows. It's the responses from politicians in the cabinet that I'm more appalled about now, as well as Cummings's behaviour and actions during lockdown. It feels like utter contempt for the whole pandemic messaging of the government, a messaging we read Cummings is helping to shape.

If we are not truly affected and annoyed about this then what does it say about us? That we must either be tough-skinned or certainly insensitive. Insensitive is a strong word here but I use it because we all know of people who have died and couldn't see them, or we have very elderly in laws (like my wife has) whom, for 2 and a half months she cannot visit (lives less than 20 minutes away). Many posters surely have been making the same sacrifices. It doesn't matter if we are left or right, we are all mostly caring people and following government advice (sometimes whether we like it or not) but the architect of it all can do what he wants to do. Surely this is a public scandal? 

 

Edited by sonyc
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The whole point of being hard right is not to care about other people but to show a wilful disregard for other people. It f you don’t care whether people are dying and n the Mediterranean. In fact actively support these policies. If you don’t Care about other races and religions then don’t be surprised if these people don’t care about you and treat people wiz contempt and think the  rules they apply other people don’t apply to them. 

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30 minutes ago, sonyc said:

If we are not truly affected and annoyed about this then what does it say about us? That we must either be tough-skinned or certainly insensitive. Insensitive is a strong word here but I use it because we all know of people who have died and couldn't see them, or we have very elderly in laws (like my wife has) whom, for 2 and a half months she cannot visit (lives less than 20 minutes away). Many posters surely have been making the same sacrifices. It doesn't matter if we are left or right, we are all mostly caring people and following government advice (sometimes whether we like it or not) but the architect of it all can do what he wants to do. Surely this is a public scandal? 

This is basically it.

You've got people who can't see dying relatives, people who can't attend loved ones funerals, people who've not seen their grandchildren for  months all because they followed the rules set out by the Government. To have the chief architect of these rules break them, and then to have the cabinet line up behind him to say he did nothing wrong (not even 'he made an error of judgement but he shouldn't resign') is pissing people off all across the political spectrum. The wider issue is the arrogance on display, a suggestion that this indivdual is above accountability, above the rules and we all just have to accept it.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

How do I get rid of my local MP?

Where is Lee Harvey Oswald now that you need him?

  • Haha 1

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51 minutes ago, Herman said:

He is. Ridge isn't letting him talk about the A66 upgrade.😀

I’m going to enjoy this later then. Spending some time with my daughter this morn

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9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The Bookmakers don't know what to make of it.

Go   5-6

Stay  5-6

After "hard man of Brexit" Steve Baker's interjection there is no a slow stream of backbench tories turning.

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8 hours ago, Surfer said:

We passed Italy in deaths per capita at least a week ago. Remember the charts I posted? Nobody “on the right” seemed to be very concerned about that then - so why now? 

Just happened yesterday according to worldometer.

I care more about the death rate than the Cummings story but maybe it's just me. Yes, it is true that there is not much new to talk about with the death rate but I would move thought it worth a mention somewhere?

I'm not sure about the last sentence, presume it was aimed at me (no one else has mentioned the comparison) but I dont really understand the point you are trying to make. 

20200524_103709.thumb.jpg.d11ee736b7965dc1da0c67bd4851cfc3.jpg

 

 

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SOS - Wrecked Transport Minister following a multiple pile up all live on TV - one with blonde on Sky news and then again with a more elderly gentleman on the BBC.

Vehicle (policy, excuses, advisor and increasingly the government) a complete right-off (yes 'right' intended!).

Police alerted and recovery pick-up trucks sent.  Police and media now making further investigations. More details expected over the next few days. 

Never made it to the A66.

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