Corona Virus main thread

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Well someone has to say it.

If this had been Corbyn and Labour, there would have been an outcry of biblical proportions. This idiot is getting off lightly. He is a court jester, the one who joked in class but failed all his exams. And he is making the greatest mess of this country since the Vikings invaded.

Apparently he has taken to blaming Hancock. Yet hasn't the nerve to face the public.

And people voted in this fool to negotiate Brexit trade agreements.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

6 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I do think it's a release to fuller economic activity yes....hence manufacturing, construction and anyone else would be urged to return if they could or were able to. It was just a coded form of language imo. Agree too with YF about social relaxations of course. That part of the briefing was clear. I was alluding to the economic part (supported by Stay Alert and removal of Protect the NHS) which again was received reinforced by his comments about trying not to take public transport, to walk or get on your bike. All a bit coded. And there is the problem. No wonder people are confused this morning in TV and radio interviews.

I actually suspect that the initial lock down and certainly the furlough scheme was never intended to shut the economy down as much as it actually did. Apart from retail I'm sure the government thought that most businesses would still operate vaguely normally. Instead most business it seems furloughed non-essential staff, operated with skeleton crews and generally shut down far more than intended i.e. construction.

The 'back to work' is really just a push to these businesses to get back to where the government originally intended!

[BigFish 1,986]

17 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think anyone with decent knowledge of the science knew lockdown wasn't going to eliminate the disease. The reason for the initial lockdown was to help delay in order to prevent the healthcare system from being overloaded. Really the only two end points are vaccine or herd immunity.

There is a third, and possibly more likely, option that it becomes endemic and we just live with it like flu.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

I actually suspect that the initial lock down and certainly the furlough scheme was never intended to shut the economy down as much as it actually did. Apart from retail I'm sure the government thought that most businesses would still operate vaguely normally. Instead most business it seems furloughed non-essential staff, operated with skeleton crews and generally shut down far more than intended i.e. construction.

The 'back to work' is really just a push to these businesses to get back to where the government originally intended!

But given that we are still getting 4,000 plus cases a day even with that "more comprehensive lockdown than intended" then its really concerning what relaxing the guidelines will do. Germany is down to about 350 a day. I think France is not much more than that. We are talking about re-opening things when we still have very high levels of new infections. 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

But given that we are still getting 4,000 plus cases a day even with that "more comprehensive lockdown than intended" then its really concerning what relaxing the guidelines will do. Germany is down to about 350 a day. I think France is not much more than that. We are talking about re-opening things when we still have very high levels of new infections. 

I agree - it's just that I think it''s not the controlled opening of say Garden centres or carpet shops is the cause - its' the relaxed socialization outside work that worries me.

[Well b back 3,190]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well someone has to say it.

If this had been Corbyn and Labour, there would have been an outcry of biblical proportions. This idiot is getting off lightly. He is a court jester, the one who joked in class but failed all his exams. And he is making the greatest mess of this country since the Vikings invaded.

Apparently he has taken to blaming Hancock. Yet hasn't the nerve to face the public.

And people voted in this fool to negotiate Brexit trade agreements.

Must confess I voted for him, but the last few weeks are making me view him like a Trump like character. I had no time for Nicola Sturgeon however I must say she is coming out of this really well and does seem a proper leader. Wether she has it right or wrong at least their nation trusts and follows her. The comment by Johnson last night forcefully saying I am the prime minister for the Uk and that includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland has probably just gained the Scots their independence as more than ever now they will see Boris as not their leader, but as their enemy. If this goes wrong over the next few weeks he really needs to resign.

The mayors of London and Manchester today have both come out and said please stay indoors. The only one who seems to think it’s safe is Johnson himself !.

[BigFish 1,986]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

But given that we are still getting 4,000 plus cases a day even with that "more comprehensive lockdown than intended" then its really concerning what relaxing the guidelines will do. Germany is down to about 350 a day. I think France is not much more than that. We are talking about re-opening things when we still have very high levels of new infections. 

All true @Jim Smith, but what is really missing is the machinary necessary to manage the lock down at the various phases. That is various protocols to govern behaviours, the metrics to indicate where we are and of course the now nearly mythical track, trace and isolate system.

It is now really difficult to see what the government has been doing over the last seven weeks.

[Van wink 2,994]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

Breading ground wrong terminology, the more you breath into the mask, cough or sneeze if you’re infected the more likelihood that more of the virus will be spread, by adjusting the mask. What I said is to have the correct standard, using a scarf or cloth mask is potentially much more hazardous than not wearing one!

Breading ground even worse, you’ll be telling us we are growing yeast in the masks next, which may of course be true 😉

[Bill 1,788]

The advice that you can go anywhere is merely a means of getting folk off being housebound, and prepared to get back to work

The next step will be reduce the furlough money so that it becomes a necessity, irrespective of safety.

It should not be too much of a shock either, coming from a political mindset which regards our purpose is  merely to generate profits.... and fight naughty foreigners when those profits are threatened.

And perhaps one of the great ironies is that those fully behind this view, which will certainly increase the threat to those vulnerable..... are the very ones so many of the vulnerable voted for 😅

[king canary 7,580]

22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

The virus doesn't appear to just die away or fade out so vaccine is probably the only real solution. We don't know enough yet do we about herd immunity? 

No, not really.

The unfortunate truth is that a vaccine will very likely not be ready until 2021 and we can't lock everyone down until then. So trying to manage the flow of cases through social distancing and occasional lockdowns if we seem to be approaching a spike is probably the best solution. 

[Bill 1,788]

approaching a spike ?

is that anything like a rise or increase ?

[Well b back 3,190]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

No, not really.

The unfortunate truth is that a vaccine will very likely not be ready until 2021 and we can't lock everyone down until then. So trying to manage the flow of cases through social distancing and occasional lockdowns if we seem to be approaching a spike is probably the best solution. 

Agreed, but experts are saying before you can control outbreaks via apps, contact tracing etc the new cases need to be below 400 per day, ours as we are all aware is 4000 + per day. 
 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

All true @Jim Smith, but what is really missing is the machinary necessary to manage the lock down at the various phases. That is various protocols to govern behaviours, the metrics to indicate where we are and of course the now nearly mythical track, trace and isolate system.

It is now really difficult to see what the government has been doing over the last seven weeks.

I disagree agree with you there BF, I'd say it confirms that exactly what we've seen, i.e. a panicky and divided government flapping incompetently in an attempt to cover up/retrieve their initial mistakes is the total sum of what they've been doing over the last seven weeks.

Seven weeks in the making and we have (or will have) a 50 page document which I don't think even Johnson had the gall to call a 'plan' and Parliament has yet to see - absolutely pathetic.

[sgncfc 1,223]

10 minutes ago, king canary said:

No, not really.

The unfortunate truth is that a vaccine will very likely not be ready until 2021 and we can't lock everyone down until then. So trying to manage the flow of cases through social distancing and occasional lockdowns if we seem to be approaching a spike is probably the best solution. 

This is the third option - control. This is what has historically happened with most viruses, including SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Swine flu etc, and even the common cold and flu viruses. There are no vaccines - we have what we call a flu vaccine, which inoculates against a few of the known flu viruses, but not against the several hundred others which appear each year. We have no vaccines against SARS or the others despite almost 20 years of research and millions of pounds spent. The chance of anyone developing an effective vaccine against Covid-19 in a year or two is very small. There are treatments which prevent some people dying - we don't really have one of those yet for Covid-19, but there are already many in trials.

Viruses die down and spring up again naturally, often with the seasons, or with opportunity. Controlling those spikes is just a way of living with it, which is what we will have to do. This virus will die down once we have removed it's easy pathway - and it will come back again and again if we relax. Hopefully when it comes back it will be milder, as with SARS, but that isn't guaranteed - Spanish flu came back much worse than the first wave. But even that died out eventually.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

19 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

This is the third option - control. This is what has historically happened with most viruses, including SARS, MERS, Bird Flu, Swine flu etc, and even the common cold and flu viruses. There are no vaccines - we have what we call a flu vaccine, which inoculates against a few of the known flu viruses, but not against the several hundred others which appear each year. We have no vaccines against SARS or the others despite almost 20 years of research and millions of pounds spent. The chance of anyone developing an effective vaccine against Covid-19 in a year or two is very small. There are treatments which prevent some people dying - we don't really have one of those yet for Covid-19, but there are already many in trials.

Viruses die down and spring up again naturally, often with the seasons, or with opportunity. Controlling those spikes is just a way of living with it, which is what we will have to do. This virus will die down once we have removed it's easy pathway - and it will come back again and again if we relax. Hopefully when it comes back it will be milder, as with SARS, but that isn't guaranteed - Spanish flu came back much worse than the first wave. But even that died out eventually.

I believe SARS, MERs etc actually died out (effectively extinct) due to control over spreading. They were thankfully less transmissible than Covid19 (else things would of been apocalyptic).

Covid19 though will survive and just become another endemic coronavirus in humans - (one of 6 or7). Yes there are mutations (variants) of them i.e seasonal flu's and colds.  

[Barbe bleu 816]

11 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

 Spanish flu came back much worse than the first wave. But even that died out eventually.

Spanish flu H1N1 never died out, it just mutated into something less destructive and has lurked in the background ever since. H1N1 is the Swine flu that came back in 2009

Luckily  i understand that in 2009 a lot of people of an age at which their immune system had started to really struggle with new viruses had seen H1N1 before and knew how to defeat it. 

We are probably lucky swine flu wasnt a completely new disease as I am not sure I recall us doing very much at all to stop it

[Jim Smith 2,314]

51 minutes ago, BigFish said:

All true @Jim Smith, but what is really missing is the machinary necessary to manage the lock down at the various phases. That is various protocols to govern behaviours, the metrics to indicate where we are and of course the now nearly mythical track, trace and isolate system.

It is now really difficult to see what the government has been doing over the last seven weeks.

I agree. Hancock said the other day that the track and trace systems are not yet set up. I just don't see how they can start relaxing these measures in June unless they are fully up and running. They need to be able to track and isolate any outbreaks, especially if they are sending kids back to schools. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

54 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Must confess I voted for him, but the last few weeks are making me view him like a Trump like character. I had no time for Nicola Sturgeon however I must say she is coming out of this really well and does seem a proper leader. Wether she has it right or wrong at least their nation trusts and follows her. The comment by Johnson last night forcefully saying I am the prime minister for the Uk and that includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland has probably just gained the Scots their independence as more than ever now they will see Boris as not their leader, but as their enemy. If this goes wrong over the next few weeks he really needs to resign.

The mayors of London and Manchester today have both come out and said please stay indoors. The only one who seems to think it’s safe is Johnson himself !.

This whole situation has been a god send for the nationalist cause in these countries. they have been able to differentiate themselves subtly from Westminster throughout the process and present themselves as the "leaders" of their nations. Sturgeon has deliberately held her press conferences slightly earlier than Westminster and been able to steal a march/undermine the government slightly at every opportunity even if in substance she is not actually doing much different to the UK wide approach. I think that once we come out of this it will have really strengthened their position as a lot of people in Scotland and Wales will be thinking that the devolved administrations have been more competent than the government and the English ministers running the show are a bunch of chumps.

[Bill 1,788]

" a bunch of chumps. "

I would check your spelling there old fellow

 

[Herman 9,717]

Things are properly serious now that even Philip Schofield is kicking off. 

[Bill 1,788]

A surer sign is even the righties, in all their varied forms, are not on here trying to defend him

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

So Garden Centers can open from Wednesday - Must have added that overnight after all the furore! What else will have changed / added or been 'clarified' from Johnson's latest car-crash.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Yellow Fever
Ref 'Horticulture Week - "Official"

[Bill 1,788]

that new logo to be announced this afternoon

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

So Garden Centers can open from Wednesday - Must have added that overnight after all the furore! What else will have changed / added or been 'clarified' from Johnson's latest car-crash.

Garden centres

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

1 minute ago, Bill said:

Garden centres

yes - typo escpd. £$%

[sonyc 5,492]

I think the last big thing that made posters on here so annoyed or at least animated was the herd immunity announcement (I realise that the PPE situation,  testing performance, numbers of deaths and Sage make up also created a stir) so this latest announcement must be kept in perspective. Perhaps though some posters are absent on this issue because it is difficult to defend very easily. Hopefully, we will get greater clarity by tea time tonight.

[Borman 0]

Government now advising that home made face coverings be worn if entering enclosed spaces.

[king canary 7,580]

A sensible comms strategy would have had all of this ready to go and published at the same time as TV announcement. 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

A sensible comms strategy would have had all of this ready to go and published at the same time as TV announcement. 

I couldn't agree more.  It's just totally inept, amateurish - as if they've never had proper jobs before ....... oops.... I see. Hmm.

[Bill 1,788]

15 minutes ago, king canary said:

A sensible comms strategy would have had all of this ready to go and published at the same time as TV announcement. 

It was already to go

it's just that Johnson didn't grasp what a pile of confused sh yte he spewed out last night - and so after all manner of complaint he is trying to rectify that incompetence

this has been forced upon him