Corona Virus main thread

[Bill 1,788]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Ive  read it twice and still don't  know what you are talking about, but no change there.

those who will die will, those who won't....won't

those who are vulnerable should stop whining about those who are feeding them

[Surfer 1,547]

17 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Of course because this is in The Mail on Sunday it must be 'fascist, hard right fake news' or some similarly stupid description. If you can't force yourself to give any credit to Hodges then perhaps you might read the BBC article on Italy v UK death figures where some similar evidence was offered.

There is a way of reporting this kind of information. But no, the RWNJ's will insist that "you can't believe the numbers, the numbers are not true. look over there, those guys are doing worse!" We have the same issue here in US, constant deflection from incompetence. 

There is an argument to be had about the actual effect on the country, the people who have been infected v those who have not, how the country recovers, where the hot spots are and how spread can be restricted. And newspapers would be providing a service to the country by holding those investigations and reporting on them. But the "dear leader can do no wrong" slant, or "everything he does is screwed up" slant does nobody any favors. 

The country deserves, truth and clarity, and honest communication.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Surfer

[ricardo 7,382]

1 minute ago, Bill said:

those who will die will, those who won't....won't

those who are vulnerable should stop whining about those who are feeding them

But you've already told us that its only us who will die.

[Bill 1,788]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

But you've already told us that its only us who will die.

apart from sending you are colouring book I am not sure what else I can do

[ricardo 7,382]

Just now, Bill said:

apart from sending you are colouring book I am not sure what else I can do

Some crayons would be nice.😀

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think another 5 weeks, but I won't  need armed police to keep me in, especially today as its cold and rainy in NR2.

I also expect my personal lockdown to extend somewhat into a misty future unless a miracle cure arises. It is a nuisance but hardly the Gulag. Hopefully the less vulnerable will be released long before me.

Warm if cloudy down here today. But definitely more people out and about and many more cars about. Be interesting to see any graph about travel, if we see them today. Sometimes think the Saturday/Sunday might as well be lumped into one.

Took the dog for a walk and right behind the changing rooms by the football pitches, someone had fly tipped. And with our country lanes down here it is becoming a real nightmare. Tips expected to open next week but who gets first go?

[Mark .Y. 352]

11 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The only statistic that can be trusted is "excess deaths" as that bypasses all the administrative issues over how that death was categorized. And Mar/Apr data shows the UK has the largest number - both in absolute terms and when corrected for population. Scroll down this FT link to see the charts for excess deaths ..,

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

Sorry Surfer, but I disagree.

What you are saying is that all excess deaths will count as Covid-19 deaths and hence any increase on the normal average is what will be put down to the virus.

It has no way of removing from the figures all the extra deaths caused by the lockown, eg suicides, cancers, people who would have gone to A&E for some reason but don't because they are too scared etc etc etc.

So, in my mind, lots of people are saying that the excess death figures are the final evidence - it simply isn't true.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

But you've already told us that its only us who will die.

He was careful not to say when though. I am going to scrounge the pension for as long as I can.

[ricardo 7,382]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

But you've already told us that its only us who will die.

He was careful not to say when though. I am going to scrounge the pension for as long as I can.

As predictions go he's on a winner though.😀

eventually.

 

[ricardo 7,382]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think another 5 weeks, but I won't  need armed police to keep me in, especially today as its cold and rainy in NR2.

I also expect my personal lockdown to extend somewhat into a misty future unless a miracle cure arises. It is a nuisance but hardly the Gulag. Hopefully the less vulnerable will be released long before me.

Warm if cloudy down here today. But definitely more people out and about and many more cars about. Be interesting to see any graph about travel, if we see them today. Sometimes think the Saturday/Sunday might as well be lumped into one.

Took the dog for a walk and right behind the changing rooms by the football pitches, someone had fly tipped. And with our country lanes down here it is becoming a real nightmare. Tips expected to open next week but who gets first go?

The cold should be coming down your way later. Dreadful forecast here for the next few days. That should keep 'em off the beach.

[Bill 1,788]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Warm if cloudy down here today. But definitely more people out and about and many more cars about. Be interesting to see any graph about travel, if we see them today. Sometimes think the Saturday/Sunday might as well be lumped into one.

Took the dog for a walk and right behind the changing rooms by the football pitches, someone had fly tipped. And with our country lanes down here it is becoming a real nightmare. Tips expected to open next week but who gets first go?

That is the point. Folk are out and about in far greater numbers than ever before, They recognise the risk is minimal - the problem lies elsewhere.

As to fly tipping those caught should be fined a far heavy amount, as much is about laziness and contempt for others

As to how long you have to live check out Sainsbury, they sell you a back for life so just make sure it is study  and robust, as I have seen the staff hand out flimsy ones to pensioners.

Elsewhere recently opened tips have see huge queues. Best leave it for a while, A bit of rubbish stacked neatly and a relaxed time v a long queue, engine running. If you are retired there's far better things to do with your time than the latter. 😎

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Sorry Surfer, but I disagree.

What you are saying is that all excess deaths will count as Covid-19 deaths and hence any increase on the normal average is what will be put down to the virus.

It has no way of removing from the figures all the extra deaths caused by the lockown, eg suicides, cancers, people who would have gone to A&E for some reason but don't because they are too scared etc etc etc.

So, in my mind, lots of people are saying that the excess death figures are the final evidence - it simply isn't true.

 

Its a tricky one Mark, there will obviously be xs deaths from the virus but I suspect most will be as a consequence of the virus, reluctance to dial 999 for example due to fear of hospitalisation. The big unknown is the ongoing deaths that will result from late diagnosis of cancers, early detection from screening, failure to get appropriate treatment etc.

[Barbe bleu 822]

30 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The only statistic that can be trusted is "excess deaths" as that bypasses all the administrative issues over how that death was categorized. And Mar/Apr data shows the UK has the largest number - both in absolute terms and when corrected for population. Scroll down this FT link to see the charts for excess deaths ..,

https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

Its  not all bad.  Covid 19 appears to have resurrected 1000 people in South Africa!

 

[Van wink 2,994]

22 minutes ago, Bill said:

those who will die will, those who won't....won't

 

So by ignoring the lockdown you just want to speed it up a bit for them.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Its  not all bad.  Covid 19 appears to have resurrected 1000 people in South Africa!

 

They are all called Lazarus

[TIL 1010 4,737]

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The cold should be coming down your way later. Dreadful forecast here for the next few days. That should keep 'em off the beach.

That won't stop some doing exactly what they want to do when they want to do it ricardo. Go to the beach, go to do the shopping as many times of the week as you wish , visit relatives oh the list is endless. Just use the cloak of invincibility and this indiscriminate virus will pass you by.

[Borman 0]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

That won't stop some doing exactly what they want to do when they want to do it ricardo. Go to the beach, go to do the shopping as many times of the week as you wish , visit relatives oh the list is endless. Just use the cloak of invincibility and this indiscriminate virus will pass you by.

As with Bill on this thread there are some who believe they are immune and that this is simply a pensioners problem - a lesson that will be learnt only one way I fear. 

[Van wink 2,994]

16 minutes ago, Borman said:

As with Bill on this thread there are some who believe they are immune and that this is simply a pensioners problem - a lesson that will be learnt only one way I fear. 

The idiots!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Elsewhere recently opened tips have see huge queues. Best leave it for a while, A bit of rubbish stacked neatly and a relaxed time v a long queue, engine running. If you are retired there's far better things to do with your time than the latter. 

Luckily for us, we have a local farmer who gets rid of it.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The cold should be coming down your way later. Dreadful forecast here for the next few days. That should keep 'em off the beach.

At least when they are on the beach they aren't hanging around supermarkets. Wilkos is the worst. I remember hearing tales of queuing right up to Trowse for cup tickets but some queue halfway to Plymouth outside our local Wilko just to get a bleddy scratchcard.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

26 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

I'm not a particular fan of the Blonde Buffoon or the Tories in general most of whom have an insufferably arrogant trait but the main stick to beat the Government with now is this 'officially the highest death toll in Europe'.  The current figure is shocking, for sure, and way above what I envisaged it might be back in early March but are we SURE that it exceeds Italy (or even Spain)?? Unless these countries include ALL care home deaths in their figures then we are nowhere near a 'like for like' comparison.

Yes, we are - the UK figures don't include all the care home deaths either, and certainly not all the Covid deaths in the community that were never hospitalised, and we're still recording higher deaths (and new cases) than either Spain and Italy so that will continue for some time yet. I suspect the figures in most countries are incomplete to some extent and also there are discrepancies in the definition of a Covid death between various countries but they are nevertheless the 'offical' figures.

You could of course argue that at the moment we are still behind Spain and Italy on deaths per 1m of population (although probably not for much longer) but I think you can get too hung up on the absolute figures, surely they aren't the only measure of whether our response has been very good or very poor. I would suggest that in comparison to Italy primarily but also to Spain to a fair degree the UK had two major advantages which should have enabled a much better outcome; firstly time, we had several weeks of watching what was happening in Italy and then other continental countries which should have been used to prepare and secondly we have fully controlled borders between us and the continent (and the rest of the world!) which could have been used to limit the import of the virus into this country. So with those advantages (both of which were completely wasted) to have even a comparable death toll to the two worst countries in Europe is an outstandingly poor performance, which looks even worse if we benchmark ourselves against the countries that took effective action - never mind Germany, take a look at what Greece did. They were in a similar (but worse) situation that the UK in having a health service ill-prepared and resources which they knew could be overwhelmed by the virus so they locked down very early. They are now unlocking having recorded under 3,000 Covid cases and 150 deaths.

So returning to the numbers - as Surfer has already said the only true comparison is the 'excess deaths' - this avoids all the problems around classification of the cause of deaths and also gives a truer measure of the actual impact of the virus and a country's response to it because it will also tell us the scale of deaths caused hospitals not being able to treat non-Covid seriously ill patients, e.g. heart attack, cancer etc patients that could have been saved but weren't. This also has doubtless been happening in some other countries as well to a greater or lesser extent so it is only the excess death figure that will eventually allow direct numerical comparisons between countries.

[Bill 1,788]

36 minutes ago, Van wink said:

So by ignoring the lockdown you just want to speed it up a bit for them.

nope that is just you lying, again

[Bill 1,788]

29 minutes ago, Borman said:

As with Bill on this thread there are some who believe they are immune and that this is simply a pensioners problem - a lesson that will be learnt only one way I fear. 

nope, yet another lie as I never said that

[Bill 1,788]

34 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

That won't stop some doing exactly what they want to do when they want to do it ricardo. Go to the beach, go to do the shopping as many times of the week as you wish , visit relatives oh the list is endless. Just use the cloak of invincibility and this indiscriminate virus will pass you by.

So who is delivering your food, you hypocrite working in the delivery and supply, stacking the shelves, operating the tills etc ?

do you seriously, in all your ignorance, think those people believe they are immune ?

so why not stop whining about others who you have no idea why they are outside other than those feeding you

and accept that just as others do not know your police service record, you don't know their reasons for being outside

[TIL 1010 4,737]

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

So who is delivering your food, you hypocrite working in the delivery and supply, stacking the shelves, operating the tills etc ?

do you seriously, in all your ignorance, think those people believe they are immune ?

so why not stop whining about others who you have no idea why they are outside other than those feeding you

and accept that just as others do not know your police service record, you don't know their reasons for being outside

I am well aware of what key workers are subjecting themselves to on a daily basis and i am in total admiration of them but you are not a key worker are you so stop blustering around trying to justify your totally selfish actions on Friday. Unless i am mistaken outside of work those same key workers are subject to the same restrictions as the rest of us.

How the devil am i a hypocrite in what i am posting over this subject ? I go out once a week on a Tuesday to Sainsburys and that is the only day of the week the car comes out of the garage. I go for a long walk every other day and the only direct contact ' Er Indoors and myself have with anyone is if the neighbours make an appearance on their doorsteps and we exchange good wishes and ask if they are OK. Apart from that i hope i am doing my bit to help protect the NHS. Yeah a hypocrite so righto whatever you say.

Edited May 10, 2020 by TIL 1010

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I am well aware of what key workers are subjecting themselves to on a daily basis and i am in total admiration of them but you are not a key worker are you so stop blustering around trying to justify your totally selfish actions on Friday. Unless i am mistaken outside of work those same key workers are subject to the same restrictions as the rest of us.

god you are thick

the restrictions are subjective - not exact,  as has been consistently raised in EVERY major media source

and I do not see unblocking a smelly u-bend as selfish - he happens to be my brother who had a hip operation some while back

and speaking to two others were consequent to me being there, not any prior intent

now why not wind your neck in and stop making an ar se of yourself

[TIL 1010 4,737]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

god you are thick

the restrictions are subjective - not exact,  as has been consistently raised in EVERY major media source

and I do not see unblocking a smelly u-bend as selfish - he happens to be my brother who had a hip operation some while back

and speaking to two others were consequent to me being there, not any prior intent

now why not wind your neck in and stop making an ar se of yourself

You are getting a tad more unhinged with every post you are making which have taken a turn towards being abusive but leopards never change their spots as thread after thread on here shows when you get involved City1st and as far as making an ar se of myself your lack of self awareness is shining brightly yet again.

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

 

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Its a tricky one Mark, there will obviously be xs deaths from the virus but I suspect most will be as a consequence of the virus, reluctance to dial 999 for example due to fear of hospitalisation. The big unknown is the ongoing deaths that will result from late diagnosis of cancers, early detection from screening, failure to get appropriate treatment etc.

Yes, every measure is tricky but this one has a clarity to it - it summarizes ALL the immediate effects of the pandemic. There may be positive things like fewer traffic related deaths as well as direct and indirect negative things caused by the pandemic and our response to it. IMO I think it is fairer rather then trying to find out right now what the exact number of CV-19 deaths are.

[FenwayFrank 2,458]

21 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I am well aware of what key workers are subjecting themselves to on a daily basis and i am in total admiration of them

Aww, thanks ! 😁

[Bill 1,788]

Correcting your lies is err................... unhinged

And any comment on your lie about me 'laying a wreath ?

otherwise away from plods nonsense there is a damning article extensively covering the government's failures, maybe some of the self righteous might care to comment, though it does not make good reading for righty apologists

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/10/100-days-later-how-did-britain-fail-so-badly-in-dealing-with-covid-19

"Over the past week there have been moments when members of the government have given up pretending that all has gone well. As evidence of the mishandling of the pandemic response has piled up, some ministers have realised they would sound ridiculous if they could not admit that errors had been made."

"The NHS lacked enough intensive care beds, protective equipment for staff and, initially, ventilators. The social care sector, shamefully unreformed, was another victim of Tory austerity that has paid the price."

"Early on in the crisis Johnson missed a series of Cobra meetings about Covid-19 and was still proudly shaking hands with people in hospitals in early March. Now, as he tries to find ways to ease the lockdown, while at the same keeping the risk of a second wave to a minimum, the test for the government is to keep the public believing it has the answers. So far much of the evidence has suggested otherwise."