Corona Virus main thread

[The Bristol Nest 513]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I stopped enanapril, low dose and have been monitoring BP at home, it hasn’t changed since I stopped taking it 2 weeks ago.

That's a very good sign as it can go up quite quickly when stopped. Keep checking...

[The Bristol Nest 513]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Keep up the good work 👍

Thank you on behalf of all my colleagues.There is a lot of amazing work going on outside of the NHS.Everyone that socially distances, for example. I clap all the local Coop staff that risk infection everyday. Not modesty but a real appreciation for everyone still exposed to this and that includes everyone who is not being a **** at this time!

[T 190]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ouch. The inconvenient reality. Never going to get something like this completely right but I’m afraid the eye was taking off the ball given other priorities. No doubt some who are complicit will result to petty attacks as they don’t have any substantial defence. Political priorities have real effects which can’t just be dismissed because they are awkward for some. 

[Barbe bleu 823]

22 minutes ago, T said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-uk-ministers-were-warned-last-year-of-risks-of-coronavirus-pandemic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Ouch. The inconvenient reality. Never going to get something like this completely right but I’m afraid the eye was taking off the ball given other priorities. No doubt some who are complicit will result to petty attacks as they don’t have any substantial defence. Political priorities have real effects which can’t just be dismissed because they are awkward for some. 

They probably read your comments on the other thread where you were saying it is a mild disease with no long term effect in society and relaxed a bit.   It's a shame as the brexiteers were calling it correctly...

[ricardo 7,385]

Someone noticed then🤣

[Barbe bleu 823]

.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Barbe bleu
Duplicate

[Essjayess 307]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Would be interesting to get an idea of the number of key workers that are off work with potential symptoms, must be a massive number so this was inevitable. He's not the best at managing expectations, to say the least. He is pretty upbeat about the 100,000 target as well, time will inevitably tell.

Always dangerous for any politician to actually promise something. Even so, yesterdays total reported testings of 23,000 was the highest, and today it has gone up to 28,600...without a mention anywhere. If the testing was down by 5,000  everyone and his dog would be chomping at the bit.

[Herman 9,756]

The word "capacity" seems to be carrying a lot of weight today.

[sonyc 5,515]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

The word "capacity" seems to be carrying a lot of weight today.

I have capacity to play for NCFC and be PM....but then...

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

4 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Well, I would think the most directly involved are Deloitte themselves and per my earlier quotes, they say they are not running it -as does this one below :

In revelations that raise concerns about the rapid outsourcing of tests during the pandemic, directors-general of hospitals in south-west London are said to have had discussions about the removal of Deloitte and the management of the Chessington test center.

The inference there is that Deloitte isn't the management.

Well the Epsom Hospital director says they are (running it - I assume therefore that they are managing it or in this case mismanaging it)

If its a case of who do I believe then I think I'll go with the hospital director who is trying to get his staff and patients tested rather than the overpaid accountants who are facing having a lucrative contract taken away from them.

And it still leaves unanswered the bigger question of why Deloittes were ever involved in the first place.

.

[Van wink 2,994]

17 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Always dangerous for any politician to actually promise something. Even so, yesterdays total reported testings of 23,000 was the highest, and today it has gone up to 28,600...without a mention anywhere. If the testing was down by 5,000  everyone and his dog would be chomping at the bit.

If the take up from essential workers continues as today then the actual tests should be on a good upward curve. Community testing was discussed yesterday which is crucial so hopefully we will see that kicking off. 

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I have capacity to play for NCFC and be PM....but then...

Huge capacity

Edited April 24, 2020 by Van wink

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

4 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

So scientists, epidemiologists, clinicians and health professionals with no known prior politicial affliations in cabinet /cobr meetings  then.

Is that actually different to what we now have?

We don't know one way or the other do we?

From the little we have been told the Cobra meetings have been pretty insubstantial and the key forum has been the Sage committee - the membership of which remains a tightly guarded secret.

Although we do know that advisors from No 10 were present which is pretty odd given that they are political advisors and not, so far as I'm aware, experts in any of the scientific disciplines whose advice the government is supposedly following.

We also know that the Select Committee, who do know which 'experts' sat  on the committee, were shocked and 'disappointed' that there was so little input from medical or public health experts. A Select Committee that was chaired by a Tory former Secretary of State for Health and of course with a Tory majority.

So that is not carping from the opposition, that is the governing party seriously alarmed at their own government's actions/judgements.

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

This is very curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/dyson-will-not-supply-ventilators-to-nhs-to-treat-covid-19

Also mentions that Renault & Aston Martin are also not supplying ventilators.

 

[Mark .Y. 352]

14 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well the Epsom Hospital director says they are (running it - I assume therefore that they are managing it or in this case mismanaging it)

If its a case of who do I believe then I think I'll go with the hospital director who is trying to get his staff and patients tested rather than the overpaid accountants who are facing having a lucrative contract taken away from them.

And it still leaves unanswered the bigger question of why Deloittes were ever involved in the first place.

.

Given everything else he had going on, could he not possibly have misunderstood who was actually running it as opposed to who was helping to run it.

I have no political axe to grind here but surely the Guardian would have exposed Deloitte as liars rather than printing what they did.

And I have no idea why Deloittes were involved in the first place, perhaps ask your MP to find out for you ??

[Mark .Y. 352]

4 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

This is very curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/dyson-will-not-supply-ventilators-to-nhs-to-treat-covid-19

Also mentions that Renault & Aston Martin are also not supplying ventilators.

 

It sounds as the though the consortium building "copies" of existing ventilators can supply enought to meet expected demand.

Maybe the new designs had some certification issues and I'm guessing training would need to be provided whereas the consortium units would be the same as those in service already  

[ricardo 7,385]

9 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

This is very curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/dyson-will-not-supply-ventilators-to-nhs-to-treat-covid-19

Also mentions that Renault & Aston Martin are also not supplying ventilators.

 

The early panic of a shortage never materialised and the present supplier has the capacity if needed. See last two paragraphs.

[Van wink 2,994]

19 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

This is very curious.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/dyson-will-not-supply-ventilators-to-nhs-to-treat-covid-19

Also mentions that Renault & Aston Martin are also not supplying ventilators.

 

Is it? Why?

[Indy 3,298]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The early panic of a shortage never materialised and the present supplier has the capacity if needed. See last two paragraphs.

That’s the key there, panic, I think the lockdown is certainly helping the nhs to cope with the numbers, the fact we’re expanding the capacity to treat Covid 19 patients outside the normal NHS hospitals might be a clue to where we might be heading, lockdown for those at risk, those confirmed with the virus, to be isolated in dedicated treatment hospitals (Nightingale Type) allowing normal hospitals to treat standard range without overwhelming threat of Covid, social distancing the norm for the foreseeable future to keep the spread to a minimum possible and slow movement towards normality in steps.

Those in the NHS deserves our full support and will no doubt get it, those at risk deserve our respect so restrictions to be adhered to and normal businesses deserve our spending, people need to earn a living, kids need a good education, back to school as soon as possible with measures as needed.

No easy answers but we all need to be told what the future holds, the exits strategy if you like.

[Herman 9,756]

17 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The early panic of a shortage never materialised and the present supplier has the capacity if needed. See last two paragraphs.

Dyson and others were being too clever in redesigning the wheel.

The other consortium just built more wheels.

[Van wink 2,994]

6 minutes ago, Indy said:

That’s the key there, panic, I think the lockdown is certainly helping the nhs to cope with the numbers, the fact we’re expanding the capacity to treat Covid 19 patients outside the normal NHS hospitals might be a clue to where we might be heading, lockdown for those at risk, those confirmed with the virus, to be isolated in dedicated treatment hospitals (Nightingale Type) allowing normal hospitals to treat standard range without overwhelming threat of Covid, social distancing the norm for the foreseeable future to keep the spread to a minimum possible and slow movement towards normality in steps.

Those in the NHS deserves our full support and will no doubt get it, those at risk deserve our respect so restrictions to be adhered to and normal businesses deserve our spending, people need to earn a living, kids need a good education, back to school as soon as possible with measures as needed.

No easy answers but we all need to be told what the future holds, the exits strategy if you like.

I suspect using the Nightingales as specialist COVID 19 hospitals is where we may end up, this looked likely some time ago. 
They are of course also there as an insurance policy in case we were unable to control the peak of this outbreak, and now more importantly any peak which may result from a second spike which most epidemiologists seem to think is inevitable. If we are able to come out of lockdown and avoid a second peak we will have done amazingly well. 

[Indy 3,298]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I suspect using the Nightingales as specialist COVID 19 hospitals is where we may end up, this looked likely some time ago. 
They are of course also there as an insurance policy in case we were unable to control the peak of this outbreak, and now more importantly any peak which may result from a second spike which most epidemiologists seem to think is inevitable. If we are able to come out of lockdown and avoid a second peak we will have done amazingly well. 

Certainly will, but I don’t think we’ll see a second spike till November/ December when the climate is more conducive to another spike, by weather, people would have had a few months out of lockdown and Christmas!

we shall see.

[T 190]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

They probably read your comments on the other thread where you were saying it is a mild disease with no long term effect in society and relaxed a bit.   It's a shame as the brexiteers were calling it correctly...

I''m afraid that is lie straight out of the hard right playbook to try and deflect from an inconvienient. reality. I've always understood that any infecious disease is a serious threat to society. I have said as I recall that it is something that society will likely recover from as it has done from previous epedemics and that it primarily impacts the old and sick so its economic effects in the longer term will be restricted. Our discussions with the governemt is that we expect to start to see recovery in the last quarter and a significant recovery in 2021. I'm afraid you are just attacking me in an attempt to deflect and deny your own cuplability. 

Are you seriously trying to support and justify. some hard right people who post comments from hard right racists cranks, hard right websites and make xxenophobic and islamophobic comments? These are not traditional conservatives but people who support hard right wing dangerous extremists views. Are you seriously saying that the government was right to  use emergency planning resouces for Brexit rather than a pandemic?  Are you seriously saying it right for the UK to lose immigrant doctors and nurses? Are you seriously saying immigrrant essential workers are not important? Or is it maybe that there are more important priorities in society thatn nationalism like healthcare?   

[Herman 9,756]

SAGE members list been leaked. The majority seem a very sensible choice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-whos-who-on-secret-scientific-group-advising-uk-government-sage

 

[ricardo 7,385]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

SAGE members list been leaked. The majority seem a very sensible choice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-whos-who-on-secret-scientific-group-advising-uk-government-sage

 

I thought you said they were a bunch of wrong un's Herman.

[Herman 9,756]

When did I say that?

[Van wink 2,994]

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

SAGE members list been leaked. The majority seem a very sensible choice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-whos-who-on-secret-scientific-group-advising-uk-government-sage

 

As most sensible people would expect.

[ricardo 7,385]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

When did I say that?

I beg your pardon then, maybe it was CM or BF, can't bother to trawl back.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

54 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I suspect using the Nightingales as specialist COVID 19 hospitals is where we may end up, this looked likely some time ago. 
They are of course also there as an insurance policy in case we were unable to control the peak of this outbreak, and now more importantly any peak which may result from a second spike which most epidemiologists seem to think is inevitable. If we are able to come out of lockdown and avoid a second peak we will have done amazingly well. 

The problem with the Nightingales is that we don't have the nursing staff to man them. The existing NHS managed to create thousands of extra beds and man them redeploying staff from other activities and meet the existing Covid demand. Most Nightingales are effectively empty.

Without a huge number of extra nursing resources we can't return the normal NHS hospitals to normality and man the Nightingales properly.

[ricardo 7,385]

Announced deaths for England up from 514 to 587 today, but a good example of why deaths-by-day so important: 133 of those announced today occurred over a week ago compared to just 34 of those announced yesterday. Trend still looks steadily down from peak on 8th April.