Corona Virus main thread

[Essjayess 307]

As to why deaths per million are different, its hard to give an exact reason, but Portugal for example had zero deaths at one stage while Spain already had a couple of thousand...another factor is that France is a week behind Italy and we are a week behind France...why i dont know but thats how it is.

[ron obvious 1,501]

1 minute ago, Essjayess said:

Most nations in Europe, Spain, Germany, Portugal and others, announce their death rates  by regions each day, and a site like Worldometer adds that region to their total...best time to see each 24 hour total for most European nations is late in the evening GMT, around 10 or 11pm before Worldometer clicks their daily 24 hour clock at midnight GMT back to zero deaths daily for all nations.

The UK, unlike most, give out a once a day total combining all regions of UK.

Does that account for the multiple factor in death rates? 11 times higher in Spain than Portugal?

So far as I can see the relation (as a multiple) of death rates between different countries has been similar over the past 2 or 3 weeks.

[Essjayess 307]

12 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Does that account for the multiple factor in death rates? 11 times higher in Spain than Portugal?

So far as I can see the relation (as a multiple) of death rates between different countries has been similar over the past 2 or 3 weeks.

There are likely a number of factors of course in deaths per million..such a nations health care system...population density...how many returned home from Italy after vacation and holidays at the start of the outbreak etc.

Certainly i attribute the higher deaths per million in Netherlands and Belgium compared to say, Norway and Sweden is  population density. The Scandinavian nations have small populations but much bigger land areas.

Taken from my Collins Atlas from 2 or 3 yrs back  but holds true for right now..pop. density...persons per square mile....Netherlands 1275, Belgium 844, Sweden 59, Norway 41.

We all know the virus spreads  by close contact mostly, prolly a good reason why cities and high populated nations  in Europe are more prone to deaths, among other factors obviously

Edited March 31, 2020 by Essjayess
added words

[Van wink 2,994]

Daily press events are getting very frustrating, they should allow time for follow up questions, why are journalists wasting time with stupid questions like "are there going to be tax rises"

Every day there are questions about testing, or the lack of, and the answer is a lecture on why testing is very important. Gove hinted that we cant get the necessary reagents, if thats the case then tell it as it is and stop raising the prospect of 25,000 tests per day.

[Essjayess 307]

Norfolk cases up 15 to 148, Suffolk up 16 to 116. 18 deaths in Norfolk now.

If the Norfolk cases confirmed are x20 its gives around 3k infected, still low in a population of 903,000 i suppose.

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Daily press events are getting very frustrating, they should allow time for follow up questions, why are journalists wasting time with stupid questions like "are there going to be tax rises"

Every day there are questions about testing, or the lack of, and the answer is a lecture on why testing is very important. Gove hinted that we cant get the necessary reagents, if thats the case then tell it as it is and stop raising the prospect of 25,000 tests per day.

Yep. Simple honesty is all that people need. Not promises.

[Essjayess 307]

Just now, Van wink said:

Daily press events are getting very frustrating, they should allow time for follow up questions, why are journalists wasting time with stupid questions like "are there going to be tax rises"

Every day there are questions about testing, or the lack of, and the answer is a lecture on why testing is very important. Gove hinted that we cant get the necessary reagents, if thats the case then tell it as it is and stop raising the prospect of 25,000 tests per day.

Before Boris got infected, around a week ago in one of his briefings he said that 25,000 testings could be reached  within 4 weeks, so on that basis its still around 3 weeks before they can test that amount...the entire world needs these reagents im sure, but they are increasing  everything as fast as they humanly can, be it testings, ventilators, PPE.

[Aggy 752]

One thing I’d missed over the weekend, quite a few articles and tv news segments (Possibly also on this thread which I tend to read for a few days then drift out of - sorry if already mentioned) about Italy and increasing social unrest, in particular in the south. Reports of armed raids on shops as people can’t afford to buy food for their children. It does sound as though the Italian ‘bail out’ package is not as comprehensive as ours and it also sounds like much of it hasn’t made its way yet to citizens, but they’ve only been in lockdown a couple of weeks and things already look like they’ll boil over soon.

[Surfer 1,547]

34 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Every day there are questions about testing, or the lack of, and the answer is a lecture on why testing is very important. Gove hinted that we cant get the necessary reagents, if thats the case then tell it as it is and stop raising the prospect of 25,000 tests per day.

Peston is digging into it.... he suggested the chemical industry says there is no problem with reagent availability. 

[T 190]

Fairly damming report from emergency planning professor on BBC tonight. Germany are performing better because they planned for a pandemic whereas UK has used all their emergency planning resources on the last few years to plan for Brexit. UK needs to get its priorities right. 

[Essjayess 307]

1 hour ago, T said:

Fairly damming report from emergency planning professor on BBC tonight. Germany are performing better because they planned for a pandemic whereas UK has used all their emergency planning resources on the last few years to plan for Brexit. UK needs to get its priorities right. 

Well, once this pandemic is  reasonably under control, i would imagine most nations on earth, not just us, have gotten a loud and clear message that healthcare systams need huge improvement. Sad that it takes such a devastating  virus to make it so, but thats human nature., of which many lax governments are part of.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,783]

2 hours ago, Aggy said:

One thing I’d missed over the weekend, quite a few articles and tv news segments (Possibly also on this thread which I tend to read for a few days then drift out of - sorry if already mentioned) about Italy and increasing social unrest, in particular in the south. Reports of armed raids on shops as people can’t afford to buy food for their children. It does sound as though the Italian ‘bail out’ package is not as comprehensive as ours and it also sounds like much of it hasn’t made its way yet to citizens, but they’ve only been in lockdown a couple of weeks and things already look like they’ll boil over soon.

I live in the south of Italy, and I wouldn't believe everything you hear. There doesn't seem to be much of a bailout package but I don't people are panicking too much yet.

[sonyc 5,492]

2 hours ago, Surfer said:

Peston is digging into it.... he suggested the chemical industry says there is no problem with reagent availability. 

Not a surprise about Gove (it's China), nor Zahawi (15000 ventilators on their way...this week, stated last week and by Dyson, despite production and testing not yet agreed) nor Hancock (saying 12000 ventilators already in the NHS). They cannot be straight with people for fear of losing face. Raab too has been called too with his repatriation remarks. It's a shambles of communications  frankly. Scary in a crisis. People and especially NHS workers need certainty, clear communication so they can plan, so they can manage. Just saying things that sound positive is just not good enough if there is no detail. We need technocrats, logisticians not charlatans. This is a national emergency. We know folk will get stuff wrong. Just state exactly where we are in an adult way and move on. Half truths is what this shower are so used to. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by sonyc

[Indy 3,286]

Without actual figures, without actual deaths caused by the virus not with the virus and without knowing who has had it all the figures are immaterial, it’s just a fight against the unknown using the worst case scenario because we have nothing else to work with.

After having just had a very **** day, talking with my Norwegian and US colleagues they are now 30% redundancy in company I contracted to in Norway and more around 40% laid off in US company I did work for, it looks like a lot of guys are up ****e with little prospect of returning to work any time soon.

As much as those who are scared of this virus, I’ve not been directly effected as I don’t know of anyone confirmed with this virus, but I’ve spoken to a few very worried people. So I’m certainly looking at it from my skewed view point, but the sooner we get back on track the sooner millions of people will be less threatened of their livelihoods.

Of course we need to protect the vulnerable, but get others back to normality stress related illnesses could be massive killer in the future.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Indy

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Without actual figures, without actual deaths caused by the virus not with the virus and without knowing who has had it all the figures are immaterial, it’s just a fight against the unknown using the worst case scenario because we have nothing else to work with.

After having just had a very **** day, talking with my Norwegian and US colleagues they are now 30% redundancy in Norway and more around 40% layer off in US, it looks like a lot of guys are up ****e with little prospect of returning to work any time soon.

As much as those who are scared of this virus, I’ve not been directly effected as I don’t know of anyone confirmed with this virus, but I’ve spoken to a few very worried people. So I’m certainly looking at it from my skewed view point, but the sooner we get back on track the sooner millions of people will be less threatened of their livelihoods.

Of course we need to protect the vulnerable, but get others back to normality stress related illnesses could be massive killer in the future.

I know of 3 and all have got over it or are close to (Leeds area). That said, this is nasty Indy, a 13 year has died in London with no underlying health issues. There is no telling and it seems a bit of a lottery. There are decent articles on virus load (the amount you get infected by) so perhaps that might help to explain things? 

[Indy 3,286]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I know of 3 and all have got over it or are close to (Leeds area). That said, this is nasty Indy, a 13 year has died in London with no underlying health issues. There is no telling and it seems a bit of a lottery. There are decent articles on virus load (the amount you get infected by) so perhaps that might help to explain things? 

Don’t say it’s not Sonyc, it’s nasty as other life threatening illness.

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, T said:

Fairly damming report from emergency planning professor on BBC tonight. Germany are performing better because they planned for a pandemic whereas UK has used all their emergency planning resources on the last few years to plan for Brexit. UK needs to get its priorities right. 

Hush, my chap

you'll set the bigots off again

a' swawkin' and a' shriekin.' claiming it's all down to tribalism - rather than those who are actually working in that field stating how it is

reading the guff they are posting recalls the former Soviet Union, where tractor production was up, the wheat harvest had increased....etc

Boris our glorioius leader has created more nurses, built more hospitals month after month

ein joke, ein (far) right, ein father (many times)

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Don’t say it’s not Sonyc, it’s nasty as other life threatening illness.

I realise you do. I was responding to your point about not knowing any folk infected but also making the point that many illnesses have a cause and a treatment plan. Whereas this seems to be far more of an unknown. And yes, we will need to get the country back working. In the absence of a vaccine being ready very soon, the best we can do are those tests, to help people truly get back to work. Like Germany are planning for (in their usual way no doubt).

[JF 694]

The 13 year old kid dying alone without his family has done me tonight. Can’t imagine being in the position of not being able to be with them

[T 190]

31 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Well, once this pandemic is  reasonably under control, i would imagine most nations on earth, not just us, have gotten a loud and clear message that healthcare systams need huge improvement. Sad that it takes such a devastating  virus to make it so, but thats human nature., of which many lax governments are part of.

Well actually no according to the emergency planning professor a pandemic is one of the top riskS to plan for and all major organisations know you should have a disaster plan ready to implement. The US shut down their relevant planning department. and the UK were planning for Brexit. Now no one can fully plan for this but the US and UK are scrambling because of a lack of planning. 
 

the s Koreans because of past experience and the Germans because they are German had a plan and implemented it. The UK is doing its best to scramble I’m sure but it does look as if they are making it up as they go along rather than working to a Prepared plan which is standard practice for a risk that was always considered likely to happen at some time given previous disease outbreaks. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by T

[sonyc 5,492]

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

Hush, my chap

you'll set the bigots off again

a' swawkin' and a' shriekin.' claiming it's all down to tribalism - rather than those who are actually working in that field stating how it is

reading the guff they are posting recalls the former Soviet Union, where tractor production was up, the wheat harvest had increased....etc

Boris our glorioius leader has created more nurses, built more hospitals month after month

ein joke, ein (far) right, ein father (many times)

Well the first of his 6 hospitals (ExCell) is built eh Bill! Not the kind he had in mind though.

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, JF said:

The 13 year old kid dying alone without his family has done me tonight. Can’t imagine being in the position of not being able to be with them

Yeah, that is terrible (as a dad with two sons).

[Indy 3,286]

3 minutes ago, JF said:

The 13 year old kid dying alone without his family has done me tonight. Can’t imagine being in the position of not being able to be with them

As sad as this is, don’t lose sight of the 450 people today in the uk some of them kids who died from cancer JF......a death is a death, just this virus is so high profile other illnesses are being totally forgotten about.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Indy

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, T said:

Well actually no according to the emergency planning professor a pandemic is one of the top risk to plan for and all major organisations know you should have a disaster plan ready to implement. The US shut down their relevant planning department. and the UK were planning for Brexit. Now no one can fully plan for this but the US and UK are scrambling because of a lack of planning. 

There was a very good article yesterday about how disaster planning had fallen by the wayside (former head). Guardian or Independent ran it.

[Indy 3,286]

To be honest I’m done with this thread now, it’s what it is we’re all under a global enforcement of suppression until the authorities across the globe get their goals, can’t do anything other than help those vulnerable and live for years with the consequences. So that’s me signing off for a few weeks, it’s all driven by the media, pressuring governments to take drastic action, each country trying to do what they believe to be right, so be it, stay safe and good luck to you all.

[JF 694]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

As sad as this is, don’t lose sight of the 450 people today in the uk some of them kids who died from cancer JF......a death is a death, just this virus is so high profile other illnesses are being totally forgotten about.

Appreciate that. It’s when people and particularly in this case a child die from this, they die alone that’s done me with that one, poor kid 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Stuff it being political. If some of the replies coming from the non Government agencies involved then some blame has to be apportioned right now. The way this is going, the way it appears the Gove-rnment is misleading us, Boris picked a good time to go sick. If he can use a link to talk to the Cabinet, then he can certainly do it each evening at 5pm. If he truly only has mild symptoms, then he is now avoiding any responsibility.

I am a bit tired of hearing "we are increasing" when they are obviously not increasing at a proper rate. That not all front line NHS staff have yet to be tested is criminal.

[sonyc 5,492]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

To be honest I’m done with this thread now, it’s what it is we’re all under a global enforcement of suppression until the authorities across the globe get their goals, can’t do anything other than help those vulnerable and live for years with the consequences. So that’s me signing off for a few weeks, it’s all driven by the media, pressuring governments to take drastic action, each country trying to do what they believe to be right, so be it, stay safe and good luck to you all.

Sometimes it's good to take a break for your own wellbeing. I've done the same many times. Drop in though if you need to express ideas or thoughts. Everybody has lots of views. Take care of yourself too.

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Well the first of his 6 hospitals (ExCell) is built eh Bill! Not the kind he had in mind though.

The disturbing thing is not that he is such a incompetent liar, as is Trump, but there are still those who feel so threatened by collective action that they prepared to come on here and make such ar ses of themselves trying to defend him. Mostly with idiotic 'whayaboutery'.

Johnson ? No he never said anything about handwashing, did not lie about joining EU equipment purchase. Has not 'about turned' more times than a drill instructor on speed.

Disturbing when the evidence is there. Just as it is today as NHS staff are being threatened with dismissal if they speak out about a lack of equipment.

And here, in a quite accurate article, is what those not so blinded by the constant tugging of their forelocks which provides a damning apprasail of probably the most useless and incompetent fool to occupy number 10 - an excellent piece

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/opinion/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson.html

Edited March 31, 2020 by Bill

[Surfer 1,547]

Just observing today's WH press conference, it's very clear that President Trump has lost control. 

Fortunately he has lost control to the medical experts. Everyone in the press corps is ignoring all the "clarifications"  he's trying to interject, the two people clearly in charge here are Dr Fauci and Dr Brix.

Probably because they are telling US citizens we should expect over 100,000 deaths before Summer.