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Since 1980

Incompetent idiots running Pinkun website

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Posted (edited)

The Irish has spoken. Someone has now corrected the error.

Edited by Since 1980

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Posted (edited)

Riled much, 1980?!

Not the worst typo I've seen on the internet. Take the point it was a headline. Fortunately (or unfortunately for you) the Pink 'Un's tautness is immortalised in the web page address description.

 

While we're on pedantry, my personal editorial bugbear with this site is its widespread policy of unnecessarily and incorrectly apostrophising plural adjectival nouns, a la:

 

"Canaries' boss Daniel Farke" instead of "Canaries boss Daniel Farke"

"Canaries' legend Wes Hoolahan" instead of "Canaries legend Wes Hoolahan"

"Farke faces a major Canaries' headache ..." instead of "Farke faces a major Canaries headache ..."

etc. etc.

 

Think about it, Mr 'Un... you wouldn't write "Norwich's boss Daniel Farke" or "Norwich's legend Wes Hoolahan"... it's "Norwich boss DF" and "Canaries Legend WH". Same for plurals,  please!

 

(I've even seen "Canaries' consider Moritz Leitner transfer" which is still on the site but to be fair, any PU editor would acknowledge that error if they saw it)

 

RANT OVER

Edited by GenerationA47
description, not address
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I like the idea of "Mr 'Un". Makes me think a a James Bond-style villain in a big chair with a cat on his lap, planning his next rewrite of something trivial that started on this forum while slipping in an amusing grammatical inconsistency.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I like the idea of "Mr 'Un". Makes me think a a James Bond-style villain in a big chair with a cat on his lap, planning his next rewrite of something trivial that started on this forum while slipping in an amusing grammatical inconsistency.

Hey... I got a similar mental image! If this site ever needed a (printable) mascot... he's right there

Edited by GenerationA47
mental!
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, GenerationA47 said:

"Canaries' boss Daniel Farke" instead of "Canaries boss Daniel Farke"

"Canaries' legend Wes Hoolahan" instead of "Canaries legend Wes Hoolahan"

Sorry, not being argumentative as much as curious, but I thought at Farke and Hoolahan "belonged to" the Canaries, the apostrophe was correct?

Edited by Badger
Inserted ""
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If you get this animated re Canaries website.  Try considering Sky Sports News and the numskull inserting the comments at the bottom of the tv screen who regularly spells athletes of all sports incorrectly.  And whilst badmouthing SSN don't get me started on the bimbo's pronunciation of Irish and UK racecourses.  

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry, not being argumentative as much as curious, but I thought at Farke and Hoolahan "belonged to" the Canaries, the apostrophe was correct?

It's a complicated one for sure and I do not want to get into another "dimemna,"  v "dilemma" style debate.

Nobody wins.

'The general rule is that the possessive of a singular noun is formed by adding an apostrophe and s, whether the singular noun ends in s or not. The possessive of a plural noun is formed by adding only an apostrophe when the noun ends in s, and by adding both an apostrophe and s when it ends in a letter other than s.'

Make of that what you will.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

It's a complicated one for sure and I do not want to get into another "dimemna,"   "dilemma" style debate.

Nobody wins.

'The general rule is that the possessive of a singular noun is formed by adding an apostrophe and s, whether the singular noun ends in s or not. The possessive of a plural noun is formed by adding only an apostrophe when the noun ends in s, and by adding both an apostrophe and s when it ends in a letter other than s.'

Make of that what you will.

So wouldn't that make Canaries' correct in the Hoolahan and Farke context?  

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2 minutes ago, Badger said:

So wouldn't that make Canaries' correct in the Hoolahan and Farke context?  

Strictly... Yes!

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Well I appeared on Countdown  and Celebrity Gogglebox but all this is above my head

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11 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

As GenerationA47 pointed out, you wouldn't see "Norwich's boss Daniel Farke", so why would you write "Canaries' boss Daniel Farke"?

Thank you, WWIAFTM

Badger & Broadstairs are right these two particular examples could work with an apostrophe, creating a slightly different meaning.* However, the context indicates the other meaning is probably intended, so the apostrophe’s not right. 

(*Sounds like this read herring may actually be the origin of Grandmaster ‘Un’s entire confucian)

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

As GenerationA47 pointed out, you wouldn't see "Norwich's boss Daniel Farke", so why would you write "Canaries' boss Daniel Farke"?

You could use either. Both are accurate.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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14 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

You could use either. Both are accurate.

Both are accurate from a grammatical sense, but one is never used in this context.

How often do you read a match report starting with:

"Barcelona's forward Lionel Messi scored another hat trick.... blah blah blah"

You don't. 'Barcelona' wouldn't have the possessive 's'. It would read: "Barcelona forward Lionel Messi scored another hat trick..."

It's like asking someone what pets they have, and they reply: "I've got two cats and a hound". Whilst 'hound' is technically correct, how often is it used in this context to describe a domestic animal?

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4 hours ago, GenerationA47 said:

Riled much, 1980?!

Not the worst typo I've seen on the internet. Take the point it was a headline. Fortunately (or unfortunately for you) the Pink 'Un's tautness is immortalised in the web page address description.

 

While we're on pedantry, my personal editorial bugbear with this site is its widespread policy of unnecessarily and incorrectly apostrophising plural adjectival nouns, a la:

 

"Canaries' boss Daniel Farke" instead of "Canaries boss Daniel Farke"

"Canaries' legend Wes Hoolahan" instead of "Canaries legend Wes Hoolahan"

"Farke faces a major Canaries' headache ..." instead of "Farke faces a major Canaries headache ..."

etc. etc.

 

Think about it, Mr 'Un... you wouldn't write "Norwich's boss Daniel Farke" or "Norwich's legend Wes Hoolahan"... it's "Norwich boss DF" and "Canaries Legend WH". Same for plurals,  please!

 

(I've even seen "Canaries' consider Moritz Leitner transfer" which is still on the site but to be fair, any PU editor would acknowledge that error if they saw it)

 

RANT OVER

I hesitate - grammar and all that - but...I think this is slightly wrong. Sorry!  Norwich is not an adjectival noun as far as I know.  'The poor' or 'the deprived', where an adjective has become a noun to describe a type or a class,  count as adjectival nouns. 'Norwich' is just a place-name noun.

You are right that there shouldn't be an apostrophe in 'Canaries boss Daniel Farke' but that is because it is has come into ordinary speech, especially in sports writing as a kind of shorthand. It is telegram journalese. You wouldn't in ordinary life in a conversation string five nouns together without a break and talk about 'Norwich City manager Daniel Farke'.

If it was written out 'properly' it would be 'the Norwich City manager, Daniel Farke, said etc etc' and if that was properly shortened it would become '...Norwich City's manager, Daniel Farke, said etc', with an apostrophe.

You are right about the headache and Leitner examples. I will stop before I get on to my hobby horse, of invariably misused words and phrases, such as...🤓

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Posted (edited)

 

"You don't. 'Barcelona' wouldn't have the possessive 's'. It would read: "Barcelona forward Lionel Messi scored another hat trick..."

Yes but using "Barcelona front man Messi" actually suggests that he might come from Barcelona more than that he plays for them. Strictly speaking.

Your preferred usage is of course more frequent nowadays.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

Yes but using "Barcelona front man Messi" actually suggests that he might come from Barcelona more than that he plays for them.

 

No it doesn't...

'Team - position - name' is the commonly used structure.

Norwich defender Ben Godfrey...

Arsenal winger Nicolas Pepe...

Inter wing-back Ashley Young...

You would never read a news reports that had 'apostrophe s' after the team name.

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27 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I hesitate - grammar and all that - but...I think this is slightly wrong. Sorry!  Norwich is not an adjectival noun as far as I know.  'The poor' or 'the deprived', where an adjective has become a noun to describe a type or a class,  count as adjectival nouns. 'Norwich' is just a place-name noun.

You are right that there shouldn't be an apostrophe in 'Canaries boss Daniel Farke' but that is because it is has come into ordinary speech, especially in sports writing as a kind of shorthand. It is telegram journalese. You wouldn't in ordinary life in a conversation string five nouns together without a break and talk about 'Norwich City manager Daniel Farke'.

If it was written out 'properly' it would be 'the Norwich City manager, Daniel Farke, said etc etc' and if that was properly shortened it would become '...Norwich City's manager, Daniel Farke, said etc', with an apostrophe.

You are right about the headache and Leitner examples. I will stop before I get on to my hobby horse, of invariably misused words and phrases, such as...🤓

Purple, happily pleading guilty to an imaginative  (wrong ) use of ‘adjectival noun’ ! I thought it would cover this hacktalk, too.

Standing by the rest - I really don’t think they mean what you call the ‘proper’ (possessive) phrasing. They mean the ‘stringing nouns together in accepted journalistic style’ phrasing. See GA47 & WWIATM (2020), ibid

 

Either way, I should emphasise that I don’t think they are incompetent idiots - despite the premise of this thread!

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps it should. It could do unless modern usage over rides all, especially as it is used in the press (news reports.)

The English language has constantly evolved, as has everything.

In reality we are nit-picking and none of us is an expert, as nobody is.

My personal hate is the use of "would of"and "could of" in written posts, but I notice that I speak that way.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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59 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Perhaps it should. It could do unless modern usage over rides all, especially as it is used in the press (news reports.)

The English language has constantly evolved, as has everything.

In reality we are nit-picking and none of us is an expert, as nobody is.

My personal hate is the use of "would of"and "could of" in written posts, but I notice that I speak that way.

But in speech it’s quite hard to distinguish between of and have, so don’t be too hard on yourself.

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

No it doesn't...

'Team - position - name' is the commonly used structure.

Norwich defender Ben Godfrey...

Arsenal winger Nicolas Pepe...

Inter wing-back Ashley Young...

You would never read a news reports that had 'apostrophe s' after the team name.

But in this context, isn’t ‘team’ in effect an adjective? Which obviously would never be possessive.

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15 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

But in speech it’s quite hard to distinguish between of and have, so don’t be too hard on yourself.

Some people clearly say 'of' instead of ''ve', though. That bugs me no end.

13 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

But in this context, isn’t ‘team’ in effect an adjective? Which obviously would never be possessive.

I guess it is, which means "Canaries' boss Daniel Farke" isn't a comfortable use.

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2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Some people clearly say 'of' instead of ''ve', though. That bugs me no end.

I guess it is, which means "Canaries' boss Daniel Farke" isn't a comfortable use.

I do agree about of/have. 😡

 

 

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On 09/03/2020 at 18:32, PurpleCanary said:

I hesitate - grammar and all that - but...I think this is slightly wrong. Sorry!  Norwich is not an adjectival noun as far as I know.  'The poor' or 'the deprived', where an adjective has become a noun to describe a type or a class,  count as adjectival nouns. 'Norwich' is just a place-name noun.

You are right that there shouldn't be an apostrophe in 'Canaries boss Daniel Farke' but that is because it is has come into ordinary speech, especially in sports writing as a kind of shorthand. It is telegram journalese. You wouldn't in ordinary life in a conversation string five nouns together without a break and talk about 'Norwich City manager Daniel Farke'.

If it was written out 'properly' it would be 'the Norwich City manager, Daniel Farke, said etc etc' and if that was properly shortened it would become '...Norwich City's manager, Daniel Farke, said etc', with an apostrophe.

You are right about the headache and Leitner examples. I will stop before I get on to my hobby horse, of invariably misused words and phrases, such as...🤓

I beg to differ on the point of Norwich not being an adjectival noun. In the case of 'Norwich manager, Daniel Farke', the word 'Norwich' qualifies the noun 'manager'. It tells us something extra about 'manager', if you like. Therefore we can use it as an adjectival noun without an apostrophe rather than a possessive noun where an apostrophe would be required.

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