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46 minutes ago, BillySharpsCircus said:

So if Norwich played liked the Blades and had 43 points this season and were fighting for a Champions League place you wouldn't go and watch them?

I'm calling you a liar!

I couldn't support a team that doesn't leave it all on the pitch to win a game of football. Playing nice football and losing still makes you a loser. 

 

Ask Stoke fans.

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Sheff United and Wilder are getting constant praise from every media outlet across the country - i'm unsure why they're so bothered a couple of Norwich fans don't think they're so great!

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, BillySharpsCircus said:

So if Norwich played liked the Blades and had 43 points this season and were fighting for a Champions League place you wouldn't go and watch them?

I'm calling you a liar!

I couldn't support a team that doesn't leave it all on the pitch to win a game of football. Playing nice football and losing still makes you a loser. 

 

You can leave it all on the pitch without having the mentality to break legs.

And I'm not a liar. But I'm not a typical fan. Throughout the 15 years I've been following NCFC I've never seen the cynical brutality your team exhibits. I grew up in North London & supported Arsenal, but got totally fed up with the awful football they played in the 60s.

So my support is conditional. However I've never had the suspicion of a feeling that the club was other than a thoroughly decent one - strangely one manager I most disliked was Mr. Lambert, even though the football was good & exciting & successful without being in the least brutal.

I've never been so happy to support NCFC as I am at present. Some of the football we are capable of is breathtaking & that's what matters to me; we need to establish ourselves in the PL to pit ourselves against the best, but - personally - I can wait.

 

Edited by ron obvious
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21 hours ago, Badger said:

To be fair, several posters have said this. If you look at the forum in any depth, you will see plenty of posts praising Chris Wilder. 

Very true. Outside the Leeds thrashing very early on last season Sheff Utd were the one team that came to Carrow Rd that you went “proper team there, can see why they are at the top end of the league”. Hard, aggressive, committed - yes all those things - but also played some very good football.

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24 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

Watching them on Saturday they did, as a regular feature, take our players down from behind.  This happened quite a lot in open play, but especially when we'd won the ball in our half and were looking to break, they would tactically foul to stop the move developing.  Utterly cynical and it was so widespread that it can't be a coincidence.  It's the sort of play that can easily lead to injuries, I wish refs would pick it up and give yellow cards but that seems to have stopped happening for these sort of challenges so they simply got away with it.  Yes, we got fouls (most of the time) but they're careful to do it in positions where the free kicks are not that dangerous (again a sign that it's not happening by accident).

I'm not sure if I'd go as far as Ron and stop watching City if we adopted those sort of tactics, it would depend how often and for how long, I'm a life long City fan so it would probably be like when Hughton managed us, I'd just live with it and hope it would change (and feel uncomfortable about it).

So I can fully understand some of their fans feeling very defensive about their style of play, as this thread proves !!

So basically, they just commit tactical fouls, and they don't try to injure people? There's a huge difference. Grant Holt wasn't a technical player but he was awkward, wound up the opposition by any means necessary and we loved him for it. Fans love this attitude when their teams do it but they hate to be on the receiving end. 

 

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Sheff United and Wilder are getting constant praise from every media outlet across the country - i'm unsure why they're so bothered a couple of Norwich fans don't think they're so great!

That raises the question of why Norwich fans are so critical of them when everyone else is praising them. Personally, I think it's the green-eyed monster. Sheffield United have adapted brilliantly to the Premier League and we haven't, and they seems to have made a lot of our fans bitter.

 

Just now, ron obvious said:

You can leave it all on the pitch without having the mentality to break legs.

And I'm not a liar. But I'm not a typical fan. Throughout the 15 years I've been following NCFC I've never seen the cynical brutality your team exhibits. I grew up in North London & supported Arsenal, but got totally fed up with the awful football they played in the 60s.

I'm sorry, but that's way over the top.

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Sheff Utd are where they are because they have a clever set of tactics and exactly the right personnel to execute said tactics to the best possible outcome. They aren't just a team of thugs and out of the two sides that came up with us, I have a lot more time for them than Villa who are just a chequebook team trying to exploit financial fair play to get ahead.

Much like when Stoke came through with their (at the time) unstoppable tactical approach, teams like this will make hay whilst the sun shines; there comes a time where the mentality that got you there needs to adapt (this is unavoidable) and that is usually when they fall down.

It does seem strange to me that having beaten us, Sheffield United fans have sought out this messageboard, signed up and given us whatfor (despite never ever having done so, apparently) and comes across a little insecure.

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6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So basically, they just commit tactical fouls, and they don't try to injure people? There's a huge difference. Grant Holt wasn't a technical player but he was awkward, wound up the opposition by any means necessary and we loved him for it. Fans love this attitude when their teams do it but they hate to be on the receiving end. 

 

That raises the question of why Norwich fans are so critical of them when everyone else is praising them. Personally, I think it's the green-eyed monster. Sheffield United have adapted brilliantly to the Premier League and we haven't, and they seems to have made a lot of our fans bitter.

 

I'm sorry, but that's way over the top.

Rather like Fleck's challenge then.

Ask Max. Or Grant when Sharp ran his studs down the back of his leg.

They're not just tactical foulers. They have the collective mentality of Roy Keane. Who should have gone to prison.

 

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9 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So basically, they just commit tactical fouls, and they don't try to injure people? There's a huge difference. Grant Holt wasn't a technical player but he was awkward, wound up the opposition by any means necessary and we loved him for it. Fans love this attitude when their teams do it but they hate to be on the receiving end. 

 

That's not what I said.  They systematically commit cynical fouls which are the sort of fouls that often cause injury.  That's nothing like a player who winds up the opposition fans, you're talking about something completely different there.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Sheff Utd are where they are because they have a clever set of tactics and exactly the right personnel to execute said tactics to the best possible outcome. They aren't just a team of thugs and out of the two sides that came up with us, I have a lot more time for them than Villa who are just a chequebook team trying to exploit financial fair play to get ahead.

Much like when Stoke came through with their (at the time) unstoppable tactical approach, teams like this will make hay whilst the sun shines; there comes a time where the mentality that got you there needs to adapt (this is unavoidable) and that is usually when they fall down.

It does seem strange to me that having beaten us, Sheffield United fans have sought out this messageboard, signed up and given us whatfor (despite never ever having done so, apparently) and comes across a little insecure.

I said earlier, they're not simply a team of thugs, they wouldn't be where they are otherwise, but they're quite capable of enacting career ending tackles if need be. I believe they put one in early on Max to see what they could get away with.

The referee was Mr. Hooper, so it turned out quite a lot ...

 

Edited by ron obvious

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Also there's a paradox here. They've incorporated fouling into their game, so it's a sort of perverted art form. They're generally aware of how far they can push it (remember Basham's red card? almost went too far there didn't he). We don't, so when we lose it it's likely to lead to a card - witness Emi or Ben - because we don't have the sophistry to do it otherwise.

Alex was brilliant at tactical fouling. Always a yellow, & I've never seen him put in a deliberately bad challenge yet. Annoying for the opposition but not going to finish anyone's career.

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26 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I said earlier, they're not simply a team of thugs, they wouldn't be where they are otherwise, but they're quite capable of enacting career ending tackles if need be. I believe they put one in early on Max to see what they could get away with.

The referee was Mr. Hooper, so it turned out quite a lot ...

 

Quite the claim,

Can you evidence that?

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9 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Quite the claim,

Can you evidence that?

Fleck's tackle could quite easily have been. It would only have taken a small error to have done so. Incidentally I've seen it happen to other teams they've played - it curtailed my admiration for them severely.

The psychological impact is one such teams rely on. It took Max a long time to get his courage back, & it sends out a message to the rest of the team. It's a statement of intent, of what they're prepared to do.

And listen to the crowd's reaction. They love it.

There'are huge differences between a strong tackle, an unintentional foul,  & a dirty one designed to stop you playing, as I'm sure anyone here who's played football will know. 

 

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1 minute ago, ron obvious said:

Fleck's tackle could quite easily have been. It would only have taken a small error to have done so. Incidentally I've seen it happen to other teams they've played - it curtailed my admiration for them severely.

The psychological impact is one such teams rely on. It took Max a long time to get his courage back, & it sends out a message to the rest of the team. It's a statement of intent, of what they're prepared to do.

And listen to the crowd's reaction. They love it.

There'are huge differences between a strong tackle, an unintentional foul,  & a dirty one designed to stop you playing, as I'm sure anyone here who's played football will know. 

 

So no evidence then?

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3 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Fleck's tackle could quite easily have been. It would only have taken a small error to have done so. Incidentally I've seen it happen to other teams they've played - it curtailed my admiration for them severely.

The psychological impact is one such teams rely on. It took Max a long time to get his courage back, & it sends out a message to the rest of the team. It's a statement of intent, of what they're prepared to do.

And listen to the crowd's reaction. They love it.

There'are huge differences between a strong tackle, an unintentional foul,  & a dirty one designed to stop you playing, as I'm sure anyone here who's played football will know. 

 

So no then?

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Posted (edited)

I think they get a pretty hard time for not much of a reason to be honest.

As many have already mentioned... probably their greatest contribution to their success is fantastic organisation and defensive work-rate. If you concede less than a goal a game - you have a great chance of a very successful season.

However, while we often consider ourselves a very attack minded team (often to the disregard of our defensive woes) - it is quite easy to overlook the fact that they have scored more goals than us too. I have heard many friends and fellow supporters criticise their signing of McBurnie and Mousset for decent sums of money - but they have scored important goals between them and both offer very different options to Sharp.

We dream of being able to bring a player like McBurnie off the bench, not because he is a brilliant footballer - but because he offers something different. Someone to battle for every ball, hold up play and be a threat in the air. It also helps to have a young 20+ goal a season striker if you're going back to the championship.

If Pukki is not causing a threat in a game, then we are more often than not, doomed.

Edited by HertsCanary93

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BillySharpsCircus said:

So no evidence then?

You watched the game, didn't you?

I'm not a Sheff Utd basher by any stretch of the imagination. I took pleasure in laughing at Wilder's babyish histrionics when our bus showed up late that time and we won one-nil at your place. But I also respect him as a coach and he's quite a progressive one at that.

But what Ron has said about some of the tackles put in is, partly, right. I couldn't believe Fleck didn't even get a card for that one on Max. He went over the ball and absolutely clattered the lad. It's a good job he's a tough kid.

Also, I NEVER, EVER go on other team's forums to gloat, comment, suggest ideas etc. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's always going to cause some sort of debate when opposing fans do that.

Still, we're all grown ups (sort of) right?

Edited by BobLoz3
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Fleck's tackle could quite easily have been. It would only have taken a small error to have done so. Incidentally I've seen it happen to other teams they've played - it curtailed my admiration for them severely.

The psychological impact is one such teams rely on. It took Max a long time to get his courage back, & it sends out a message to the rest of the team. It's a statement of intent, of what they're prepared to do.

And listen to the crowd's reaction. They love it.

There'are huge differences between a strong tackle, an unintentional foul,  & a dirty one designed to stop you playing, as I'm sure anyone here who's played football will know. 

 

Theres a huge difference between making outlandish statements, and making outlandish statements with supporting evidence.

You sound very bitter mate to be honest.

Edited by Blademark

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I genuinely believe that if the shoe was on the other foot, Blades fans would be moaning like hell. So, I think you'd likely also sound bitter! Of course, we don't know for sure as there isn't any supporting evidence, seeing as though you guys are doing so well 😉

28 minutes ago, Blademark said:

Theres a huge difference between making outlandish statements, and making outlandish statements with supporting evidence.

You sound very bitter mate to be honest.

As it is, for me, I wish Sheff Utd well and have been impressed each and every time we've played them in the past few seasons. We've not ever really come out on top, aside from in that first meeting I mentioned a while back. And even then it was because Wilder was rattled by a bus!

I think that our styles clash, which has been alluded to here in some respect. The solid defensive base that Sheff are built on is most definitely the reason for you flourishing in this league.

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2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Rather like Fleck's challenge then.

Ask Max. Or Grant when Sharp ran his studs down the back of his leg.

They're not just tactical foulers. They have the collective mentality of Roy Keane. Who should have gone to prison.

What about Godfrey's tackle against Bournemouth? What about McLean's wild hack against Leicester that would've been a red had he made contact? Every team makes bad tackles from time to time, whether they mean to or not.

 

2 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

That's not what I said.  They systematically commit cynical fouls which are the sort of fouls that often cause injury.  That's nothing like a player who winds up the opposition fans, you're talking about something completely different there.

But cynical fouls are generally just pulls and trips to stop an attack before it reaches a dangerous area of the pitch. They're not leg-breakers.

 

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

I said earlier, they're not simply a team of thugs, they wouldn't be where they are otherwise, but they're quite capable of enacting career ending tackles if need be.

Can you name one?

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7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

What about Godfrey's tackle against Bournemouth? What about McLean's wild hack against Leicester that would've been a red had he made contact? Every team makes bad tackles from time to time, whether they mean to or not.

 

But cynical fouls are generally just pulls and trips to stop an attack before it reaches a dangerous area of the pitch. They're not leg-breakers.

 

Can you name one?

Exactly this.

To claim a team is going out happy to break legs is quite an accusation and not something I've associated with this Sheffield United team.

The worst tactical foulers in the league are Man City, followed by Liverpool (I believe I saw a stat for this at some point). Hardly teams of thugs. 

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6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

What about Godfrey's tackle against Bournemouth? What about McLean's wild hack against Leicester that would've been a red had he made contact? Every team makes bad tackles from time to time, whether they mean to or not.

 

But cynical fouls are generally just pulls and trips to stop an attack before it reaches a dangerous area of the pitch. They're not leg-breakers.

 

Can you name one?

I mentioned the paradox involving the way we foul compared to theirs in an earlier post. It's the difference between premeditation & an explosion of anger or bad judgement.

 

I said if need be. They don't have to deploy it. It's knowing they're capable & the tackle on Max was calculated to let our team know.

I suppose the team they remind me of most is Leeds in the 60s (& Arsenal weren't far behind).

 

 

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35 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I said if need be. They don't have to deploy it. It's knowing they're capable & the tackle on Max was calculated to let our team know.

Every team is capable of it. I can't think of any team in the Premier League that actively 'deploys it'.

I have a car. I'm capable of a hit-and-run. I don't do it.

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7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Every team is capable of it. I can't think of any team in the Premier League that actively 'deploys it'.

I have a car. I'm capable of a hit-and-run. I don't do it.

I don't think they are, any more than every man's capable of unprovoked violence.

I'm not, but I know people who are, & I avoid them

And I'd be surprised if you're psychologically capable of hit-&-run.

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On 07/03/2020 at 17:01, Yellow and Green said:

They are such a frustrating team to play against.

Are they a good footballing side? No.

They are essentially a bunch of trolls. Hugely physical, win their 50/50s, nick a goal and defend in numbers. I admire them in a strange way, yet I cannot believe they are 8th in the league. 

Surely they'll be back where they belong soon (lower Championship).

Both Sharp's goals against us (the 1 this season and 1 last in the 2-2 at CR) saw him unmarked for a free header right  near the goal. He isn't the tallest of players (5' 9" / 1.75 m), so he could have easily been marked out of the game.

Much that overall I like the way Norwich play, they've conceded the most goals (Villa now blessed with the most after their 4-0 loss) and scored the joint least.
Doesn't make for attractive stats but we're a long way from being Ipswich, so it isn't that bad.

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