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33 minutes ago, Chumino said:

While being completely anonymous last night. 

He wasn't anonymous. As someone else said, he does fade in every game but he always takes responsibility and drives through the lines as a deep midfielder.

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Posted (edited)
On 28/02/2020 at 16:18, simmo_2 said:

 

Edited by Rivvo
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I think Kenny is a limited footballer at this level. However I’d say he make the most of his attributes and you can’t say he shirks or is found not trying. A workhorse without much god given talent. Tidy enough at passing without ever giving you a killer ball and ok in the tackle. Its difficult. A team of Emi’s would not be any good nor a team of Kenny’s. he has a place in our set up I think without getting over excited about him or ripping the guy to shreds 

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We've missed a lot of creativity in the middle without players like Vrancic or even Leitner, McLean doesn't really offer anything special in that role IMHO, can't knock his attitude or effort, but as others have said, often looks limited and alongside Tettey that centre of mid is lacking any real spark.

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McLean gives us the option to go long as he’ll compete for headers with a good degree of success, unlike Vrancic or Stiepermann or actually most anyone in the attacking line for us. Add this to his overall contribution in tackling/closing down opposition and he can play some great attacking passes, and it’s easy to see why DF keeps picking him.

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Fact is we've played this season carrying players in those two CDM positions.   None have been good enough and it's the one area that if we were effective, it would allow all our creative players more confidence to express themselves and our full-backs to get further forward more often. 

Very disappointing that we haven't even tried Godfrey in there to see what difference it might make.... given our results there's really nothing to lose.

Perhaps Daniel has been too stubborn and you have to wonder whether as a club we are too sentimental.... can't see the mileage in keeping Tettey around for another season if he's not good enough for the Premier League (he isn't), then why not look to develop a player that will be.      Godfrey has all the ability to be that player.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Fact is we've played this season carrying players in those two CDM positions.   None have been good enough and it's the one area that if we were effective, it would allow all our creative players more confidence to express themselves and our full-backs to get further forward more often. 

Very disappointing that we haven't even tried Godfrey in there to see what difference it might make.... given our results there's really nothing to lose.

Perhaps Daniel has been too stubborn and you have to wonder whether as a club we are too sentimental.... can't see the mileage in keeping Tettey around for another season if he's not good enough for the Premier League (he isn't), then why not look to develop a player that will be.      Godfrey has all the ability to be that player.

I read the other day that this season there have only been 3 games where we had more than 2 fit/available centre backs (Godfrey included in this number), now I haven't done the research but that does sound like it could be about right.

That's only 3 games where we have had a centre back on the bench as a backup. Every other game we have had to essentially play whoever is available there (Godfrey a lot of the time)

So, pray tell, at what point could we have afforded trying Godfrey in CDM?

Hint: The answer is 'we couldn't' 

Also, saying Tettey hasn't been good enough at all this season inclines me to think you probably haven't actually seen him play.

Edited by Flying Dutchman
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Fact is we've played this season carrying players in those two CDM positions.

Completely agree. It isn't the players fault but they are finding it difficult to compete with some good attacking midfield players and then find it difficult to reset and get back into position.

For me, this and zonal marking at set pieces have been our real problem areas all season.

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Posted (edited)

I don't post often these days, but have to on this one. Can't believe people are knocking Kenny Mclean, on Friday night he gave some close attention to Maddison. who got angry and even got booked for complaining to the ref, had he been allowed to play his usual game Leicester would have given us more problems than they did, unsung hero. None as blind as those that cant see.

Edited by Lessingham Canary
typo error
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1 minute ago, Lessingham Canary said:

I donit post often these days, but have to on this one. Can't believe people are knocking Kenny Mclean, on Friday night he gave some close attention to Maddison. who got angry and even got booked for complaining to the ref, had he been allowed to play his usual game Leicester would have given us more problems than they did, unsung hero. None as blind as those that cant see.

Totally agree - Kenny and Tettey were excellent in stopping Maddison from playing. We were also very good at not conceding free kicks in and around the penalty area, though the number of corners conceded was less impressive.  However (I'll say this quietly), we do seem to be better at defending set pieces recently - Hanley's presence is a major factor in that. 

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28 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

I read the other day that this season there have only been 3 games where we had more than 2 fit/available centre backs (Godfrey included in this number), now I haven't done the research but that does sound like it could be about right.

That's only 3 games where we have had a centre back on the bench as a backup. Every other game we have had to essentially play whoever is available there (Godfrey a lot of the time)

So, pray tell, at what point could we have afforded trying Godfrey in CDM?

Hint: The answer is 'we couldn't' 

Also, saying Tettey hasn't been good enough at all this season inclines me to think you probably haven't actually seen him play.

Tettey may have played well in terms of his capability but he doesn't make any difference, it's not like anyone is raving at how influencial he has been to us winning and we have been susceptible when opponents turn the ball over.    He doesn't control games, he does his best but it has never been good enough to have an impact in the Premier League.    

As for Godfrey, you make a fair point but this position has been our problem area this season.   Can anyone deny this position has been our weakness this season?    Bournemouth was an opportunity, Liverpool was an ideal opportunity, especially because it was a free hit - when results are not falling for us, there is no harm in trying other options.   Playing Byram at CB was another tweak worth trying that could have pushed Godfrey forward...  

There is a certain predictability about line-ups, substitutions, and the pattern of play.    I am not a critic, love the way we play, support the clubs approach long-term but would like to see us tinker / take some risks to see if something will work to turn the tide in our favour.    We could still survive but are less likely continuing with the current CDM partnerships - they lack the required ability and consistency.            

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Everyone STILL going on about BG being a CDM??!! Come on guys, give it up! He isn't going to play there for us and I bet, if we sell him, it will be to a club who wish to use him as a CENTRE BACK.

As for McLean, he's a solid player and all the reasons why have been listed here already. I watched one of the "Ask (insert Norwich player name here)" things that the club do and he said his idol was Barry Ferguson. A player who went about his business quietly and effectively.

I think that says it all.

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Perhaps if people watched the game instead of the ball they would realise the good job McLean does.

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3 hours ago, Lessingham Canary said:

I don't post often these days, but have to on this one. Can't believe people are knocking Kenny Mclean, on Friday night he gave some close attention to Maddison. who got angry and even got booked for complaining to the ref, had he been allowed to play his usual game Leicester would have given us more problems than they did, unsung hero. None as blind as those that cant see.

Totally agree Lessingham. I think much goes unnoticed however the stats tell a different tale. 

Also..

This place is poorer for you not posting often.

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3 hours ago, Woodman said:

Totally agree - Kenny and Tettey were excellent in stopping Maddison from playing. We were also very good at not conceding free kicks in and around the penalty area, though the number of corners conceded was less impressive.  However (I'll say this quietly), we do seem to be better at defending set pieces recently - Hanley's presence is a major factor in that. 

I have to put my hands up on that one, I have criticised GH in the past , but he has proved me wrong over the last few games. McLean did his job imo and so did big Grant

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3 hours ago, Lessingham Canary said:

I don't post often these days, but have to on this one. Can't believe people are knocking Kenny Mclean, on Friday night he gave some close attention to Maddison. who got angry and even got booked for complaining to the ref, had he been allowed to play his usual game Leicester would have given us more problems than they did, unsung hero. None as blind as those that cant see.

I’m not his greatest fan, but totally agree, and as above her posting more Lessingham.

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On 01/03/2020 at 06:34, Bradwell canary said:

Mario for me every time.

outshine McLean and he can score goals, which we are in desperate need for.

 

After last nights performance I've changed my opinion on Mario. He was our worst player by a mile. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, NFN FC said:

After last nights performance I've changed my opinion on Mario. He was our worst player by a mile. 

Honestly, this sort of comment boils my ****. 

Sure Mario has defensive deficiencies, but for a spell from 30 mins to 65 mins, his attacking and link up play was first class and much better than any of the other midfielders. 

How on earth anyone can say he was the worst player by a mile is beyond me. I seriously question the ability of a few on here to interpret and analyse players performances. 

Edited by Il Pirata

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At the moment the Tettey/McLean partnership is working the best but I have to say as much as I like Tettey I would love to see someone who is more combative and creative in that holding role.Someone like Kovacic of Chelsea would make a huge difference 

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17 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

At the moment the Tettey/McLean partnership is working the best but I have to say as much as I like Tettey I would love to see someone who is more combative and creative in that holding role.Someone like Kovacic of Chelsea would make a huge difference 

I suspect thats why Sitti has been brought on board next season. Long term planning for Tetteys replacement

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3 hours ago, NFN FC said:

After last nights performance I've changed my opinion on Mario. He was our worst player by a mile. 

One game doesnt make him a bad player. He was pretty ineffective last night, but played a couple of good balls.

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54 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

One game doesnt make him a bad player. He was pretty ineffective last night, but played a couple of good balls.

Didn't say he was a bad player just my opinion has changed. I've gone from 'should start every game' to 'maybe start'. Where we play him is a factor as I don't think he can defend at all. 

 

2 hours ago, Il Pirata said:

Honestly, this sort of comment boils my ****. 

Sure Mario has defensive deficiencies, but for a spell from 30 mins to 65 mins, his attacking and link up play was first class and much better than any of the other midfielders. 

How on earth anyone can say he was the worst player by a mile is beyond me. I seriously question the ability of a few on here to interpret and analyse players performances. 

Who would you say was the worst player? 

For me he lost the ball too many times, was jumping into tackles, nearly gave the ball away in the box and wasn't great going forward. 

Maybe it's lack of game time.

Maybe he's not cut out for playing in that position. 

 

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4 hours ago, NFN FC said:

Didn't say he was a bad player just my opinion has changed. I've gone from 'should start every game' to 'maybe start'. Where we play him is a factor as I don't think he can defend at all. 

 

Who would you say was the worst player? 

For me he lost the ball too many times, was jumping into tackles, nearly gave the ball away in the box and wasn't great going forward. 

Maybe it's lack of game time.

Maybe he's not cut out for playing in that position. 

 

 

4 hours ago, NFN FC said:

Didn't say he was a bad player just my opinion has changed. I've gone from 'should start every game' to 'maybe start'. Where we play him is a factor as I don't think he can defend at all. 

 

Who would you say was the worst player? 

For me he lost the ball too many times, was jumping into tackles, nearly gave the ball away in the box and wasn't great going forward. 

Maybe it's lack of game time.

Maybe he's not cut out for playing in that position. 

 

I agree that Vrancic struggled a bit last night. Looks short of match sharpness (not a surprise) and had some very heavy touches losing the ball in key positions. When McClean came on he changed the game in Norwich’s favour by moving the ball quicker and most importantly being prepared to shoot. 
 

A Vrancic/Trybull midfield will always struggle for mobility and luckily Tottenham were happy to sit off them for a large chunk of the game. 
 

Vrancic just hasn’t been able to get up to speed this season and is well below the level he was performing at last season. Which isn’t a surprise as he hasn’t been able to get a run of games.
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he does get to have a say between now and the end of the season, but absolutely no need to drop Kenny McClean who has generally been pretty good. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

 

I agree that Vrancic struggled a bit last night. Looks short of match sharpness (not a surprise) and had some very heavy touches losing the ball in key positions. When McClean came on he changed the game in Norwich’s favour by moving the ball quicker and most importantly being prepared to shoot. 
 

A Vrancic/Trybull midfield will always struggle for mobility and luckily Tottenham were happy to sit off them for a large chunk of the game. 
 

Vrancic just hasn’t been able to get up to speed this season and is well below the level he was performing at last season. Which isn’t a surprise as he hasn’t been able to get a run of games.
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if he does get to have a say between now and the end of the season, but absolutely no need to drop Kenny McClean who has generally been pretty good. 

I genuinely thought at times he looked quality. The last 15 minutes of the first half I witnessed so beautiful interplay between Vrancic, Trybull, Buendia and Rupp. 

Vrancic created three or four near goal scoring opportunities with clever passes - and whipped a FK just over. Whilst on the pitch we conceded just one goal, which came from a set piece. 

Mclean came on and did well, but I didn't see an obvious improvement. Once Tettey was on to partner him we lacked any real incision or penetration. Mclean did drive forward, but along with Tettey it was all a bit one dimensional and predictable, although it did still cause positive moments. Those little 5-10 yard passes Vrancic and Trybull can play between the lines often goes unnoticed, but they are very effective moving possession higher up the pitch in central positions. Mclean and Tettey more often play safer options out wide or backwards. That's due to a limitation in their ability under pressure and in tight areas. 

I guess I just like watching beautiful football....

Edited by Il Pirata

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1 hour ago, Il Pirata said:

I genuinely thought at times he looked quality. The last 15 minutes of the first half I witnessed so beautiful interplay between Vrancic, Trybull, Buendia and Rupp. 

Vrancic created three or four near goal scoring opportunities with clever passes - and whipped a FK just over. Whilst on the pitch we conceded just one goal, which came from a set piece. 

Mclean came on and did well, but I didn't see an obvious improvement. Once Tettey was on to partner him we lacked any real incision or penetration. Mclean did drive forward, but along with Tettey it was all a bit one dimensional and predictable, although it did still cause positive moments. Those little 5-10 yard passes Vrancic and Trybull can play between the lines often goes unnoticed, but they are very effective moving possession higher up the pitch in central positions. Mclean and Tettey more often play safer options out wide or backwards. That's due to a limitation in their ability under pressure and in tight areas. 

I guess I just like watching beautiful football....

Unfortunately that goal from a set piece came because Mario didn't block Vertonghen's run and then stayed rooted to the floor while Vertonghen jumped. I love Mario's passing and creativity and he was brilliant for us in the run in last season, but his defensive weakness is an issue in the Premier League. 

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Posted (edited)

Mind blowing that people moan about McLean. 

What game do you watch? 

Mobile, tackles, gets forward, shoots, bit of pace, versatile. 

Compare that to vrancic who has a wonderful pass on him... And that's it. He is not equipped for the Premier league physically. 

I trust Farke, and the fact he's playing mclean, and with the evidence of having eyes and a brain shows why mclean plays. 

Some people get little favourites or players they don't like, totally irrationally, like they haven't matured since they were 10.

Edited by Nono
Idiots

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I must be one of the few to think Mclean has been one of our top performers this season to date, but then admittedly i havent seen as many games as I'd have liked. I was also crying out to give Mario a chance as he offers something different. Unfortunately Mario looked completely off the pace (understandably) against spurs. At this stage of the season you have to by form, and when McLean came on he played some fantastic balls and ultimately gave us more impetus in key areas. 

Spurs game aside, I love Kenny's positivity driving with the ball from deep, the complete opposite to someone like Leitner's 'stats-based' approach of sideways and backwards passes

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