Minimum Expectation

[Hardhouse44 289]

I assume that Farke has achieved what was the boards Expectation of him this season because he is still with us and under no pressure. 

I aslo assume that given all the guff about being a top 26 club the boards minimum expectation next season is to finish at worst 6th. Regardsless of whether we go on to get promoted through the play offs or not!

I'm interested to know from fellow supporters:

a) Is that a level of expectation enough from the board, do you agree with 6th place minimum (with or without promotion)

Or

b) Is your minimum expectation higher or maybe even lower.

I would be really interested in hearing everyone's thought.

 

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

A. Yes

B. No

[Alex Moss 2,167]

21 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

I assume that Farke has achieved what was the boards Expectation of him this season because he is still with us and under no pressure. 

I aslo assume that given all the guff about being a top 26 club the boards minimum expectation next season is to finish at worst 6th. Regardsless of whether we go on to get promoted through the play offs or not!

I'm interested to know from fellow supporters:

a) Is that a level of expectation enough from the board, do you agree with 6th place minimum (with or without promotion)

Or

b) Is your minimum expectation higher or maybe even lower.

I would be really interested in hearing everyone's thought.

 

I’ve got to say, I think some of you have read into the ‘Top 26’ comment waaaaaaay too literally.

Clearly they are saying, should we be relegated from the Premier League in any given season, then it is to be EXPECTED that the bare minimum requirement going forward is to finish in the Playoffs. This is the worst case scenario for our club going forward, and anything less is not acceptable.

Clearly those with a glass more than a tad half empty have taken this that we will be very happy and satisfied with finishing 6th in the Championship every single season for the rest of eternity. I can’t believe I’m even explaining this 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Alex Moss
Typo

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

It is the same as it has ever been. I expect us to win every time we play. Realistically I know that will not happen. But if I didn't look forward to or expect then why would I bother?

I am not privvy to the workings or expectations of the Board. What they say and what they realistically think we can achieve may be two different things. But as supporters as well as owners I would imagine they expect to win every game as well.

The top 26 business is based on nothing other than history and a few technical areas such as ground capacity, catchment etc. We are currently a top 20 club. And we will have to wait and see whether that average is pushed up or lowered in the future.

For me, us just playing is enough to start with. Sense of pride etc of having a league club. Any success, which has been regular in the last 50 years, is a real bonus.

[Well b back 3,603]

In my view he has developed a group of players into multi million pound assets, and came within a whisker of improving them enough to stay up. The injuries at the start of the season did not help.

I assume our model involves rebuilding projects until we get to where we want to be, which I assume will involve selling some of our assets that are not quite at the top yet, but will be, Maddison being a good example as this squad was built from his sale.

Personally I can think of no better than Webber and Farke to carry on. I suspect if Farke left, so would all our assets and we would be back to where we were 3 seasons ago.

[Hardhouse44 289]

10 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

I’ve got to say, I think some of you have read into the ‘Top 26’ comment waaaaaaay too literally.

Clearly they are saying, should we be relegated from the Premier League in any given season, then it is to be EXPECTED that the bare minimum requirement going forward is to finish in the Playoffs. This is the worst case scenario for our club going forward, and anything less is not acceptable.

Clearly those with a glass more than a tad half empty have taken this that we will be very happy and satisfied with finishing 6th in the Championship every single season for the rest of eternity. I can’t believe I’m even explaining this 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

 

So what is your opinion then please I don't see where you give that.

[Hardhouse44 289]

12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It is the same as it has ever been. I expect us to win every time we play. Realistically I know that will not happen. But if I didn't look forward to or expect then why would I bother?

I am not privvy to the workings or expectations of the Board. What they say and what they realistically think we can achieve may be two different things. But as supporters as well as owners I would imagine they expect to win every game as well.

The top 26 business is based on nothing other than history and a few technical areas such as ground capacity, catchment etc. We are currently a top 20 club. And we will have to wait and see whether that average is pushed up or lowered in the future.

For me, us just playing is enough to start with. Sense of pride etc of having a league club. Any success, which has been regular in the last 50 years, is a real bonus.

Ok thats all very well but as our transfer dealings and constant references to money from within the club shows were are a business and run very much as a business because we dont have backers to plow in money regardless of income. And every business must set out Expectation for itself and for its employees. So the question stands what is the right Expectation next season position wise. (Which after all is really the only way to gage progress and performance)

[Hardhouse44 289]

16 minutes ago, Well b back said:

In my view he has developed a group of players into multi million pound assets, and came within a whisker of improving them enough to stay up. The injuries at the start of the season did not help.

I assume our model involves rebuilding projects until we get to where we want to be, which I assume will involve selling some of our assets that are not quite at the top yet, but will be, Maddison being a good example as this squad was built from his sale.

Personally I can think of no better than Webber and Farke to carry on. I suspect if Farke left, so would all our assets and we would be back to where we were 3 seasons ago.

Ok but how does that answer the question set in this thread?

[Alex Moss 2,167]

15 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

So what is your opinion then please I don't see where you give that.

My opinion is that if we could guarantee that 6th place in the Championship is the furthest we’ll ever fall for the rest of Norwich City Football Club's history, then I’d take that in a heartbeat. We’d never see a dull season ever again. But then I would think that’s obvious. 
 

Do you think there’s something wrong with that expectation then? I’m realistic, the bare minimum of a top 6 finish in the Premier League is completely unrealistic for literally every club in England. I don’t need us to be in the Champions league every single season to make me feel any more passionate about my club. I know some do, fair enough, but I fear you’ll have nothing throughout your lifetime but disappointment following us sadly.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Alex Moss
Yet another typo

[Alex Moss 2,167]

2 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Ok but how does that answer the question set in this thread?

To be fair, I don’t think you’re in a position to call out ‘We’ll b back’ for this. You blatantly ignored being asked twice the other day to back up your claims about you not being happy with our lack of defensive signings last summer. Yet I don’t remember you mouthing off at the time come the end of the window after we’d signed Byram and Amadou.

[Hardhouse44 289]

1 minute ago, Alex Moss said:

My opinion is that if we could guarantee that 6th place in the Championship is the furthest we’ll ever fall for the rest of Norwich City Football Club's history, then I’d take that in a heartbeat. We’d never see a dull season ever again. But then I would think that’s obvious. 
 

Do you think there’s something wrong with model then? I’m realistic, the bare minimum of a top 6 finish in the Premier League is completely unrealistic for literally every club in England. I don’t need us to be in the Champions league every single season to make me feel any more passionate about my club. I know some do, fair enough, but I fear you’ll have nothing throughout your lifetime but disappointment following us sadly.

My fear is momentum can be easily lost. I dont buy the model thing at all. Its marketing jargon used to sound like we have ambitions and plans for the future beyond what we have achieved the season which I believe can only be looked on as a faliure. How could it not be, rock bottom, no goals scored really loads against and less point than any other top flight campaign. 

As i said my fear is momentum can be lost very quiclky. Failure to achive promotion back coupled with the loss of star player, next thing you know Farke his style of football along with Webber all gone and money growing tighter again buy the month. 

I'm worried our over caution approach will be a major detractor in enticing both new players to replace our stars and a new manger to repalce Farke at some point. Then you play with luck. Something we already had our fair share of last season with transfers and results.

 

[Alex Moss 2,167]

Just now, Hardhouse44 said:

My fear is momentum can be easily lost. I dont buy the model thing at all. Its marketing jargon used to sound like we have ambitions and plans for the future beyond what we have achieved the season which I believe can only be looked on as a faliure. How could it not be, rock bottom, no goals scored really loads against and less point than any other top flight campaign. 

As i said my fear is momentum can be lost very quiclky. Failure to achive promotion back coupled with the loss of star player, next thing you know Farke his style of football along with Webber all gone and money growing tighter again buy the month. 

I'm worried our over caution approach will be a major detractor in enticing both new players to replace our stars and a new manger to repalce Farke at some point. Then you play with luck. Something we already had our fair share of last season with transfers and results.

 

Then I think that’s fair enough, and although I would disagree it’s ‘marketing jargon’ as to me I can totally see that there’s a smart plan in place beyond this season, I do also totally respect your views and fears there, Hardhouse 👍🏼

[Hardhouse44 289]

6 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

To be fair, I don’t think you’re in a position to call out ‘We’ll b back’ for this. You blatantly ignored being asked twice the other day to back up your claims about you not being happy with our lack of defensive signings last summer. Yet I don’t remember you mouthing off at the time come the end of the window after we’d signed Byram and Amadou.

? I'm not calling out anybody. Im asking a direct question and was expecting an answer. If he didn't want to fine but why post in the first place on a thread asking the question.

Jesus why did i need to be mouthing off at the time to justify my own thoughts?

Im look for an opinion from people thats all not a war!

[Hardhouse44 289]

2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Then I think that’s fair enough, and although I would disagree it’s ‘marketing jargon’ as to me I can totally see that there’s a smart plan in place beyond this season, I do also totally respect your views and fears there, Hardhouse 👍🏼

👍

[Alex Moss 2,167]

1 minute ago, Hardhouse44 said:

? I'm not calling out anybody. Im asking a direct question and was expecting an answer. If he didn't want to fine but why post in the first place on a thread asking the question.

Jesus why did i need to be mouthing off at the time to justify my own thoughts?

Im look for an opinion from people thats all not a war!

You were calling him out to answer your question as you weren’t happy with his answer, and I merely pointed out what I did. Sorry if that sounded confrontational. No war here mate, we’re all City fans here whatever our opinion* ☮️ 
 

*Except on a Sunday afternoon after Wolves away 😂

[nutty nigel 7,902]

So I dream of winning the league or finishing second. We've never done it but everyone can dream.

My hope is to finish too ten. We've only ever done that five times but having positive hope is good for the soul.

My expectation is that we'll carry on in the same way we always have. I expect other clubs to do the same. So there will be turns at the top table for the Forests, Derbys, Sheff Weds and 20 or so other clubs who realistically expect to spend time there. And the odd turn for little clubs like Notts Co. Wimbledon ipswich and Carlisle who get time in the big league every so often.

You didn't tell us yours Housey.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So I dream of winning the league or finishing second. We've never done it but everyone can dream.

My hope is to finish too ten. We've only ever done that five times but having positive hope is good for the soul.

My expectation is that we'll carry on in the same way we always have. I expect other clubs to do the same. So there will be turns at the top table for the Forests, Derbys, Sheff Weds and 20 or so other clubs who realistically expect to spend time there. And the odd turn for little clubs like Notts Co. Wimbledon ipswich and Carlisle who get time in the big league every so often.

You didn't tell us yours Housey.

Hahaha, the ‘little clubs like Notts Co, Wimbledon, IPSWICH and Carlisle’ did not go unnoticed Eddie, sneakily slipped in 👏😂

[Well b back 3,603]

36 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Ok but how does that answer the question set in this thread?

I guess that’s not the answer you wanted ? I am saying I am happy with Farke and I would think the board are more than happy. I am looking forward to a great season next year, if we are PL we will improve, if we are Championship I expect that players will go and I trust Webber and Farke to rebuild.

Of course there will be many that disagree with this opinion. 2 seasons ago what we have now achieved would have been regarded as amazing success, because of where we are now some will view this as failure. Now for me I would say if Villa find themselves relegated, that’s real failure. 

[CDMullins 498]

Impossible  to have any expectation in the lottery of the Championship.

Which is why its so important to try and stay in the Premier League once we get there.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I think I agree with WBB. H44 has asked what the minimum expectation is but that is like saying will you be happy if we stay in the Championship for 10 years because that is the minimum.

When DF came, I among many others thought we had made a blue. Now, nearly two seasons on, I am happy that we can play a decent style with players who were little better than Championship ability. Whatever the reason, we didn't buy any better than that in the last two windows. So I would love to see how we could play with some apparent better players.

I am not sure whether we will as we look to be looking for, and purchasing, prospects.  

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

1 minute ago, CDMullins said:

Impossible  to have any expectation in the lottery of the Championship.

Which is why its so important to try and stay in the Premier League once we get there.

Practice makes perfect, or does it.

[Badger 2,745]

Assuming that we are relegated, I think that a top six finish, next year, is a reasonable expectation. I do not think that we should expect to always sit within the top six, however - particularly at the start of the season, when there may be a "relegation hangover." I can envisage circumstances when we could finish outside the top six in the Championship, but would regard such outcomes as disappointing.

In the medium term, I think that we should have a higher expectation than this and would expect to see us in the Premier League for most seasons, although the reality is that for most clubs outside the top 6 to 10, there will be occasional relegations. My firm belief is that our best chance of achieving this outcome is through firm financial controls, meaning that we can strengthen as a club even a steadier fashion, rather than a famine/feast cycle based upon promotion/ relegation. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

Promotion next season should be the expectation. Otherwise the model has taken us further down than where we are this season, no business model I’ve ever seen includes a “we’ll have a really poor year there to move forwards”.

If we sell players for good money so be it, I expect that money to be well-invested in young and ambitious replacements that bring something to the first team. I certainly won’t be happy if that money isn’t reinvested into the squad as it will show a clear lack of ambition to get back up ASAP.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

48 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Promotion next season should be the expectation. Otherwise the model has taken us further down than where we are this season, no business model I’ve ever seen includes a “we’ll have a really poor year there to move forwards”.

If we sell players for good money so be it, I expect that money to be well-invested in young and ambitious replacements that bring something to the first team. I certainly won’t be happy if that money isn’t reinvested into the squad as it will show a clear lack of ambition to get back up ASAP.

Regarding the business model, it’s not ‘having a really poor year there to move forwards’ at all.

We’ve boosted the value of our assets i.e young players, bagged promotion money, Sky and BT TV rights, we will have parachute payments...

What have our outlays been?

Now, say we spent a lot of money on all these lovely players that were going to keep us in the Premier League like Villa. All well and good if they stay up, they might just be in profit, but if they don’t...

Trust me, they won’t be having as good a year from a business point of view as us. Next year could put them in some real trouble should they be relegated this season. We, on the other hand, will be fine. That’s a smart business model.

As another aside, we stand to make some good money this summer with some of the youngsters moving on whether we like it or not. And I won’t be surprised if collectively we see over £100mil+ come back to us in transfer fees. We just simply won’t be spending all of that back out in transfer fees on ‘young and ambitious replacements’, not even remotely close. It would kind of completely defeat the object of our business model. 

[Mello Yello 2,572]

2 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Regarding the business model, it’s not ‘having a really poor year there to move forwards’ at all.

We’ve boosted the value of our assets i.e young players, bagged promotion money, Sky and BT TV rights, we will have parachute payments...

What have our outlays been?

Now, say we spent a lot of money on all these lovely players that were going to keep us in the Premier League like Villa. All well and good if they stay up, they might just be in profit, but if they don’t...

Trust me, they won’t be having as good a year from a business point of view as us. Next year could put them in some real trouble should they be relegated this season. We, on the other hand, will be fine. That’s a smart business model.

As another aside, we stand to make some good money this summer with some of the youngsters moving on whether we like it or not. And I won’t be surprised if collectively we see over £100mil+ come back to us in transfer fees. We just simply won’t be spending all of that back out in transfer fees on ‘young and ambitious replacements’, not even remotely close. It would kind of completely defeat the object of our business model. 

Yeah absolutely.....we're flying.....Just a shame we're Icarus.....

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

2 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Regarding the business model, it’s not ‘having a really poor year there to move forwards’ at all.

We’ve boosted the value of our assets i.e young players, bagged promotion money, Sky and BT TV rights, we will have parachute payments...

What have our outlays been?

Now, say we spent a lot of money on all these lovely players that were going to keep us in the Premier League like Villa. All well and good if they stay up, they might just be in profit, but if they don’t...

Trust me, they won’t be having as good a year from a business point of view as us. Next year could put them in some real trouble should they be relegated this season. We, on the other hand, will be fine. That’s a smart business model.

As another aside, we stand to make some good money this summer with some of the youngsters moving on whether we like it or not. And I won’t be surprised if collectively we see over £100mil+ come back to us in transfer fees. We just simply won’t be spending all of that back out in transfer fees on ‘young and ambitious replacements’, not even remotely close. It would kind of completely defeat the object of our business model. 

If that doesn’t excite fans for the future nothing will. 

[king canary 8,750]

13 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Regarding the business model, it’s not ‘having a really poor year there to move forwards’ at all.

We’ve boosted the value of our assets i.e young players, bagged promotion money, Sky and BT TV rights, we will have parachute payments...

What have our outlays been?

Now, say we spent a lot of money on all these lovely players that were going to keep us in the Premier League like Villa. All well and good if they stay up, they might just be in profit, but if they don’t...

Trust me, they won’t be having as good a year from a business point of view as us. Next year could put them in some real trouble should they be relegated this season. We, on the other hand, will be fine. That’s a smart business model.

As another aside, we stand to make some good money this summer with some of the youngsters moving on whether we like it or not. And I won’t be surprised if collectively we see over £100mil+ come back to us in transfer fees. We just simply won’t be spending all of that back out in transfer fees on ‘young and ambitious replacements’, not even remotely close. It would kind of completely defeat the object of our business model. 

Another one for the 'the AGM is my real cup final!' group.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

Another one for the 'the AGM is my real cup final!' group.

Haha, I’m not saying that it’s necessarily the right or wrong way to do things, Kingo, and I must make it very clear that I’m not supporting the model because we’re being tight or anything haha. Some people seem very interested by the financial side of the football club, but as long as we’re healthy in that respect then I’m happy. Regardless, I’m just trying to explain how I think they’re looking to operate, but of course, it’s just an opinion and I could be completely wrong.

But that said, I think ultimately I’m open to this new fresh approach. I appreciate it’s not for everyone, but after X amount of years of watching our future plans laid out in the bog standard off the shelf traditional formula, I’m happy to give this a go and see where it takes us. All things considered, we could be in a pretty good place next summer should we get promoted again, and I have absolutely no doubt that at this point we’d be opening the purse strings further, I think Stuart will be progressive there. And if the miraculous happens this season, then I think we’d find that there would be more money available to Daniel in the upcoming window. I have a good feeling about Stuart and Daniel, and I trust them. It’s not for everyone but like I say, I find it a refreshing approach and I am keeping an open mind.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Alex Moss

[Hardhouse44 289]

18 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Impossible  to have any expectation in the lottery of the Championship.

Which is why its so important to try and stay in the Premier League once we get there.

I think this view is what plays in the back of my mind all the time.

What if we don't have a successful return to the premiership. We start to lose the finances we are so happy to have stock piled in the bank and momentum is once again lost. 

I think thats where in really coming from with this are the boards really attempting to keep this momentum and if so surely next season should be an all out effort to return to the premiership or we risk yet agsin losing our way and before you know it its all change, Farke gone and no more 30 goal a season pukki ect!

[Alex Moss 2,167]

26 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

I think this view is what plays in the back of my mind all the time.

What if we don't have a successful return to the premiership. We start to lose the finances we are so happy to have stock piled in the bank and momentum is once again lost. 

I think thats where in really coming from with this are the boards really attempting to keep this momentum and if so surely next season should be an all out effort to return to the premiership or we risk yet agsin losing our way and before you know it its all change, Farke gone and no more 30 goal a season pukki ect!

I hear you, Hardhouse, but rest assured, although it looks very blatant that we’re preparing for the worst, which is very wise I think, I would say I can’t ever remember a season where relegation looks likely yet we ARE preparing for an all out effort to return to the Premier League. In the past there’s always been uncertainty when in this predicament, but I feel it’s looking healthier to me than ever in the respect of preparing for the worst. That’s why I’m at peace with things, if we stay up, fantastic!, and if not, then we’d have to be one of the very favourites for promotion again next season. Our current league position doesn’t look too healthy, but the solid foundations and future growth of our club certainly does - and trust me, I certainly wouldn’t feel like that if I was an Aston Villa supporter right now.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Alex Moss