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Jim Smith

What i'm really stuggling with is the lack of real desire to stay up

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lake district canary: "The policy is designed so that if we go down then up again we do better next time."

With respect, that's what the club TELLS us the policy is designed to do, which isn't the same thing.  I agree to differ on who is or is not distorting the truth.

This season's PL is bang average, Liverpool excepted.  We'll never get a better chance to stay up, and yet we're on course for a record low points tally.  Do you think that's acceptable?  It looks to me as though we simply aren't trying, and that the team and the manager have been hung out to dry.  I wouldn't blame Daniel Farke one bit if he walks at the end of the season.

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9 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

And by this I don't mean that the players are not trying or that they've downed tools. But you look at teams traditionally in relegation battles (or perhaps more specifically who get out of relegation battles) and the one thing you expect to see in their performances is a bit of rabid desperation to win vital points and to preserve their premier league status.

We on the other hand just seem to be meekly sliding out of the division with a bit of a whimper. Even in the individual games when we go behind there is not real upping of the tempo or getting in the opposition's face. There is no real pushing them back with sheer desire to win. I just don't think that we have the players/style of play to get in teams faces, rough them up a bit and give them a real fight. I also think it flows from the top. Ultimately, when the whole club has basically accepted relegation as the most likely outcome from the start of the season and when the sporting director and coaching staff are under zero pressure to stay up perhaps that is what you get. It enables us to continue playing good football in long spells and the players are perhaps a little more relaxed than you might expect from a team in our situation but I just think that there is an "edge" missing from our game that is often the successful factor in a relegation struggle. 

I think you do have something here Jim. I didn't like the Delia interview when Carragher and Neville interviewed her and MWJ on a live Sky match. I felt deflated a bit. And they ARE part of the leadership at the club of course. So, these things get communicated, like a culture through the club. And that is a hard edge that is missing. I love my club but still feel it's not beyond criticism. In a way, there has certainly been a sense that 'we'll have a go' but no worries if we don't get there. We are not far away in my view but the table doesn't lie does it?

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Jimbo, is your opening post saying the same as Farke?

And do these aiding and abetting fans include you or is it apart from you?

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13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Jimbo, is your opening post saying the same as Farke?

And do these aiding and abetting fans include you or is it apart from you?

Well yesterday it did Nutty as frankly I was too demoralised but the whole thing to get worked up and just trudged off. I do think we as a fan base are sometimes not demanding enough. Ironically in the championship we are more demanding but up at this level we just blindly accept failure on a regular basis. 

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Just now, Jim Smith said:

Well yesterday it did Nutty as frankly I was too demoralised but the whole thing to get worked up and just trudged off. I do think we as a fan base are sometimes not demanding enough. Ironically in the championship we are more demanding but up at this level we just blindly accept failure on a regular basis. 

This idea that we blindly accept stuff is beyond me. Apart from saying something is unacceptable what can we do but accept it. 

But  Jimbo, it's also beyond me how you find this so unacceptable when 18 months ago you wanted to accept we couldn't even compete with the binners.

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What I was surprised at yesterday was the number of times that a Wolves player won possession when our player was in control-the one that really stood out was when Max cut out a pass meant for Jota, but then Jota got a touch and Max had to foul him and got booked. Too many times they looked like they thought that they had done enough to get to the ball first but Wolves players had more determination and energy.

You might have been forgiven for thinking that Wolves had had a weeks rest and we had played less than 72 hours previously.

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20 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I can stomach this year and relegation, given the events of last year. I don’t agree with the “top 26” aim as I think it breeds complacency within the club and doesn’t send the right message to players or fans about our target of staying up, but I can live with it given the realities of the finances etc.

Where I will draw the line is next season if we are not pushing for an immediate return, because at that point the “plan” starts to look very unconvincing and questions will rightfully be asked as to whether simply not trying this season (in terms of buying experienced players to help keep us up) was the right move. Let there be no questions, if we want to succeed long term as a club (whoever the owners are or whatever model we choose to pursue) we have to be a Premier League team. That’s the reality of football now.

I guess it depends how you define "success" though. Is it to be entertained; is it to win things; be a mid-table PL side; be in the media a lot; make a profit; be a community club; have great facilities etc etc.

Because we're not in Manchester or London we can't have it all - so which do you choose and how are you going to provide that success? Our current management team have formulated their plan and communicated it. They also happen to be currently delivering it.

But I agree that mid-table in the Championship at Christmas next year will lead to some questions being asked.

 

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Well there can only be 20 premier league teams. So the future's bleak for most of the teams who think they should be in it. We don't even have a glorious history to fall back on....

I don't get why it's so difficult to support the club we are. Especially one as successful as ours.

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40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

 

I don't get why it's so difficult to support the club we are. Especially one as successful as ours.

We do support the club Nutty.

When I and plenty of others shell out £500+ on our home season tickets and a hell of a lot more than that on away games I don’t think it’s unreasonable to sometimes question what the great and the good are getting up to in Carrow Rd towers.

Not meekly accepting sometimes works, for instance this season’s membership debacle which must have been bad as even Mick Dennis was complaining. I think it’s fair that the club shouldn’t get away with the notion that we’re all just a collection of lobotomised customer numbers.

 

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22 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I can stomach this year and relegation, given the events of last year. I don’t agree with the “top 26” aim as I think it breeds complacency within the club and doesn’t send the right message to players or fans about our target of staying up, but I can live with it given the realities of the finances etc.

Where I will draw the line is next season if we are not pushing for an immediate return, because at that point the “plan” starts to look very unconvincing and questions will rightfully be asked as to whether simply not trying this season (in terms of buying experienced players to help keep us up) was the right move. Let there be no questions, if we want to succeed long term as a club (whoever the owners are or whatever model we choose to pursue) we have to be a Premier League team. That’s the reality of football now.

I agree with this. 

We need to identify what hasn't worked this season and address it - not 'Oh Stiepermann was great in the Championship last time, he'll do for now'.

I won't be particularly satisfied with that because a) we need to do everything possible to get promoted and b) be in a stronger position than we were in Aug if we do go up. 

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1 hour ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

We do support the club Nutty.

When I and plenty of others shell out £500+ on our home season tickets and a hell of a lot more than that on away games I don’t think it’s unreasonable to sometimes question what the great and the good are getting up to in Carrow Rd towers.

Not meekly accepting sometimes works, for instance this season’s membership debacle which must have been bad as even Mick Dennis was complaining. I think it’s fair that the club shouldn’t get away with the notion that we’re all just a collection of lobotomised customer numbers.

 

Brilliant.

Instead of blaming fans for aiding and abetting so called failure why don't you do something about it.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I agree with this. 

We need to identify what hasn't worked this season and address it - not 'Oh Stiepermann was great in the Championship last time, he'll do for now'.

I won't be particularly satisfied with that because a) we need to do everything possible to get promoted and b) be in a stronger position than we were in Aug if we do go up. 

Same.

I'm a bit too young to remember 'on loan to the Endsleigh (sp?)' but I do remember a generally complacent attitude after we got relegated under Worthington. Every seemed to assume our Championship winning players would pick up where they left off and that Ashton would add another 25 goals.

Fresh blood needs to be injected in order to banish some of the memories of this season. Sitti and McCallum are an excellent start to this.

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Same.

I'm a bit too young to remember 'on loan to the Endsleigh (sp?)' but I do remember a generally complacent attitude after we got relegated under Worthington. Every seemed to assume our Championship winning players would pick up where they left off and that Ashton would add another 25 goals.

Fresh blood needs to be injected in order to banish some of the memories of this season. Sitti and McCallum are an excellent start to this.

Yes don’t forget Idah, Famewo, could be two for next year too.

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Brilliant.

Instead of blaming fans for aiding and abetting so called failure why don't you do something about it.

Pointless.

The happy-clappy-Board-can-do-no-wrong fans totally outnumber any dissenters as well you know.

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20 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Pointless.

The happy-clappy-Board-can-do-no-wrong fans totally outnumber any dissenters as well you know.

Brilliant.

There's nothing more ridiculous than someone stamping their feet saying it's unacceptable while accepting it. Then blaming someone else.

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9 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

He’s getting angry again 😉

I doubt Smiffy's getting angry. I know I'm not. Try reading it again.

If you trolls don't make us angry I doubt friends will fall out....

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1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’m not so sure.

Maybe ask Smiffy then...

Seriously though, what do you get out of trolling fans on here?

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Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

Ah, the holier than thou card. Think I’ll just ignore you from now on.

Just a question..

 

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Fresh blood needs to be injected in order to banish some of the memories of this season. Sitti and McCallum are an excellent start to this.

Are the memories that bad? We have been beaten many times by teams simply better than us. Every team in this division, or any other for that matter, will rue missed chances, injuries, bad decisions and even bad buys.

I agree about new blood but personally I don't have bad memories of this season. I haven't enjoyed most of our results but despite the euphoria after the Newcastle game, was never convinced it would be any easier than it has been. I don't like poor performance, like Sundays but cannot complain about us overall.

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7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Fresh blood needs to be injected in order to banish some of the memories of this season. Sitti and McCallum are an excellent start to this.

Are the memories that bad? We have been beaten many times by teams simply better than us. Every team in this division, or any other for that matter, will rue missed chances, injuries, bad decisions and even bad buys.

I agree about new blood but personally I don't have bad memories of this season. I haven't enjoyed most of our results but despite the euphoria after the Newcastle game, was never convinced it would be any easier than it has been. I don't like poor performance, like Sundays but cannot complain about us overall.

I think they are pretty bad. I'm not talking about your memories or mine but the players. Footballers are ego led beasts at the best of times- I reckon quite a few of them would have backed themselves to fit right in at the top table and that confidence will have taken a knock having coming up short.

Take Steipermann for instance- a key part of our promotion-winning side who struggled to make the step up. I think it would be very hard for him to not have taken a hit to his confidence in a season where he's been dropped after struggling. Players are only human.

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I think they are pretty bad. I'm not talking about your memories or mine but the players. Footballers are ego led beasts at the best of times- I reckon quite a few of them would have backed themselves to fit right in at the top table and that confidence will have taken a knock having coming up short.

Take Steipermann for instance- a key part of our promotion-winning side who struggled to make the step up. I think it would be very hard for him to not have taken a hit to his confidence in a season where he's been dropped after struggling. Players are only human.

That is true but as with actors and musicians, sports people can fall like a stone. And I assume the advent of the Sports Psychologist should mean that the fall may be cushioned somewhat and the recovery more possible. I never expected Marco to make it at this level or certainly not with our team. I think many of our players have found out that skill is good but anyone can look good at the right pace and tempo. The game at the moment is to the advantage to the players who can play skillfully at a high tempo.

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Forgive my ignorance here but could anyone explain that if we do get relegation ."we be in a better place than before to come back up"- surely if we sell many of our young stars which could be the case it will weaken us and that obviously we  going to have to start again and this could mean a good few seasons in the champs and money in the club will dwindle leaving very little to buy experience quality, and if by some miracle we did come up again hows it going to be different from this time 

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It's not a black or white situation. It's fairly obvious we might sell one or two, but not all of them.  And even if we do it is not "starting again" - it is simply using the older players we have now to be the mainstay of the group while we bring more young players through. 

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Forgive my ignorance here but could anyone explain that if we do get relegation ."we be in a better place than before to come back up"- surely if we sell many of our young stars which could be the case it will weaken us and that obviously we  going to have to start again and this could mean a good few seasons in the champs and money in the club will dwindle leaving very little to buy experience quality, and if by some miracle we did come up again hows it going to be different from this time 

Financially speaking, your scenario means we would financially be in a better place. I think the some of the recruits we have taken have been bought as prospects. And that seems to be the direction. I assume that there may come a time where we can go out and buy bigger again but I can't see it just yet.

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