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Massively over-rated

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Is this the most over rated team in NCFC history? 

All the time we hear about a need to hold this wonderful team together - how we will get huge sums for many players if we do sell...and yet the league table doesn’t lie. This supposedly amazing team can’t win for toffee. Not a single goal in open play since January 1st! 
 

if they are so good why are they about to slide out of this division with barely a whimper? Stattos- what is our worst top division total? Will they take that crown? 
 

Are we are confusing popularity with ability? The players and manager are liked and play pretty football therefore get a pass - where previous managers and players (Chris Houton era) were arguably more competitive but  less popular due to style of play etc

My neutral friends think the club deserves to be bottom for refusing to spend and naively trying to play this style of football in this division. You are always going to struggle and lose that way. But many Norwich fans seem to think we are just unlucky or else losing is part of some clever plan. Who is right here? What am I failing to see?

On what actual statistical achievements- for example - is Godfrey worth tens of millions? Or Aaron’s come to that or Lewis?  Etc etc etc 

 

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How many times do people need to be told that its not all about current ability of our young players, it's their potential.

It's also the fact that at a big club they'd be around better players.

Why do you think all these big clubs are interested? Is every scout in world football over rating them?

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At a bigger club they would be around better players - so the big club spends big on an average player they can prop up? 

i agree being English and having potential bumps up value but I also note not a single actual bid has come in. Most is media and fan speculation 
 

on merit- at present- there isn’t much to celebrate. But let’s say you are right - ok fine - turn your claim around - is it good enough for a club our size to fail by playing young players with potential- in a hope to maximise future profit- when they don’t actually perform for us in the present to a high enough standard? 

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It’s a decent team that got promoted as champions on merit last season. Unfortunately somethings not worked and not least of all the total lack of investment in the summer didn’t help. 

I guess we wait to see the scale of the dismantlement and what funds will be given to Farke (assuming he stays and I hope he does) in due course. 
 

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I can't argue with OP tbh...yet in their defense , they have not had all the breaks either have they? We've had some darn bad luck over the course of the first few months too. An injury crisis will upset a squad that hasn't been added to. Our defense was frail in the Championship , so losing players like Klose and Zimmermann was a turning point too. As they were the best we had. 

I am still bitter about that , but we didn't add to the squad and what we needed to add was quality defensive cover imo.

I don't blame Farke too much , he's made mistakes too but he has not been backed and I don't think it would be fair to turn on him.

Yesterday I saw a post on here claiming that fans were revelling in our defeat, which is something I cannot believe. Many Norwich City fans are very disappointed but they will not revel in defeat. We have a loyal fan base , I am sure there would be more booing and turning on the board at other clubs by now!!!! 

I am looking at next season now , in the Championship , which will be a very tough proposition which we all know. Losing is a bad habit and it will be a lot tougher because of how this season went! We might have the quality , but mentally we will have had a real bash which will be difficult to overcome imo

OTBC

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I too want Farke to stay. Am just not sure we are going about progressing very well. Back to stage one next year. The better players will leave to play at the right level for someone else and, presumably, we start birthing the next batch of players for the top clubs taking a massive risk ourselves in doing so. 1 win in 14 and no goals in open play since January 1st is a pretty rubbish record dont you think? What evidence do we have to convince doubters that this 'plan' is as clever as people say and that we didn't just get lucky last season riding the crest of a wave. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I too want Farke to stay. Am just not sure we are going about progressing very well. Back to stage one next year. The better players will leave to play at the right level for someone else and, presumably, we start birthing the next batch of players for the top clubs taking a massive risk ourselves in doing so. 1 win in 14 and no goals in open play since January 1st is a pretty rubbish record dont you think? What evidence do we have to convince doubters that this 'plan' is as clever as people say and that we didn't just get lucky last season riding the crest of a wave. 

We don't have evidence to prove or disprove that, because it is about what will happen in the future. Some of us are positive that the 'plan' will work, some of us not so much. The 'plan', incidentally, is to keep playing this style of football, replace any players sold with up-and-coming players who will appreciate in quality and value, and then be in a better financial position to compete next time we go up.

We're almost universally agreed on here that Farke and Webber should stay, so it's just a case of waiting it out to see what happens next season. Until then it's all conjecture, but admittedly it isn't much fun watching us floundering at the foot of the table, no matter how good the style of football we're trying to play.

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We played some of the best football I have ever seen a City side play last season. We won the Championship by 5 points . In that context it has to be a decent side . 
 

In the context of being bottom of the prem, by a distance and with horrific goal difference you have to say this is one of the worst Prem sides we have ever had . Again in relation to the other teams. The plaudits are there and at times we play reasonable possession based football. You can’t however give the ball away , fail to defend and miss the few chances you create  as we have this season. At times yesterday we were so bad it was unbearable. 
 

Make if that what you will. 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

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The issue might be that this style of football is totally wrong for premier survival. To succeed you need £40 million pound players. Which is why most mid to lower prem sides go for tight defence and big physical players. 

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9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

We don't have evidence to prove or disprove that, because it is about what will happen in the future. Some of us are positive that the 'plan' will work, some of us not so much. The 'plan', incidentally, is to keep playing this style of football, replace any players sold with up-and-coming players who will appreciate in quality and value, and then be in a better financial position to compete next time we go up.

We're almost universally agreed on here that Farke and Webber should stay, so it's just a case of waiting it out to see what happens next season. Until then it's all conjecture, but admittedly it isn't much fun watching us floundering at the foot of the table, no matter how good the style of football we're trying to play.

Exactly this.

We're going down. We can be pretty certain of that.

How we react next season is what is important.

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6 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

The issue might be that this style of football is totally wrong for premier survival. To succeed you need £40 million pound players. Which is why most mid to lower prem sides go for tight defence and big physical players. 

But nobody liked it when Hughton went for this style. We wanted good open football and thats what we have enjoyed so far this season.

Unfortunately when you can only afford to do it on a shoe string you inevitably come up against higher quality. We will always have this problem when we are in a league where we have to continually punch above our weight.

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2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Is this the most over rated team in NCFC history? 

All the time we hear about a need to hold this wonderful team together - how we will get huge sums for many players if we do sell...and yet the league table doesn’t lie. This supposedly amazing team can’t win for toffee. Not a single goal in open play since January 1st! 
 

if they are so good why are they about to slide out of this division with barely a whimper? Stattos- what is our worst top division total? Will they take that crown? 
 

Are we are confusing popularity with ability? The players and manager are liked and play pretty football therefore get a pass - where previous managers and players (Chris Houton era) were arguably more competitive but  less popular due to style of play etc

My neutral friends think the club deserves to be bottom for refusing to spend and naively trying to play this style of football in this division. You are always going to struggle and lose that way. But many Norwich fans seem to think we are just unlucky or else losing is part of some clever plan. Who is right here? What am I failing to see?

On what actual statistical achievements- for example - is Godfrey worth tens of millions? Or Aaron’s come to that or Lewis?  Etc etc etc 

 

Cheapest squad we’ve ever had, can’t say it’s overrated, good championship side, which seems to be our level

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1 minute ago, ricardo said:

But nobody liked it when Hughton went for this style. We wanted good open football and thats what we have enjoyed so far this season.

Unfortunately when you can only afford to do it on a shoe string you inevitably come up against higher quality. We will always have this problem when we are in a league where we have to continually punch above our weight.

I just don't buy this idea we can only play this way or the Hughton way.

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I have to say that whilst I think they have massive potential, I have come to the conclusion that Godfrey and Lewis are actually not great defenders. Yet.

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35 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

We don't have evidence to prove or disprove that, because it is about what will happen in the future. Some of us are positive that the 'plan' will work, some of us not so much. The 'plan', incidentally, is to keep playing this style of football, replace any players sold with up-and-coming players who will appreciate in quality and value, and then be in a better financial position to compete next time we go up.

We're almost universally agreed on here that Farke and Webber should stay, so it's just a case of waiting it out to see what happens next season. Until then it's all conjecture, but admittedly it isn't much fun watching us floundering at the foot of the table, no matter how good the style of football we're trying to play.

The plan will never succeed at this level unless Farke can work out/learn how to organise a defence. He needs a specialist defence coach on his staff in my opinion. We started well again yesterday and were the better team and then they scored a pathetically easy two goals without having to really work hard or do anything special for either of them. We then capitulated. Goals change games, especially in the premier league where you can't keep making dramatic come backs. Until our incredibly poor defending improves it will continue to undermine all the good work.

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I tend to agree with the the thrust of the OP comment.

If it is our intention to stay in the EPL we need to learn how to win dirty and how to be defensively obdurate. It might not always be pretty but it may be effective.  Hughton for instance was tasked with pragmatically trying to keep what was an inferior squad in the EPL - yes we went down eventually but we were never 'cut adrift' as we are now!

However - if we are happy to play 'pretty' but ineffective football at this level but and keep on losing then we should do it with our eyes wide open.

  

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I wouldn’t necessarily say massively overrated. People just got a bit carried away last season. We were conceding goals for fun last year - skysports’ tables go back as far as 08/09 and only Wolves in 08/09 conceded over 50 goals (but only 52, so still less than us on 57). No other champion side conceded 50 or more and lots of sides only conceded in the thirties. 

Potential is all well and good, but is Godfrey as good as Joe Gomez? Nowhere near - same age, Gomez is a back up player at Liverpool. Godfrey isn’t that standard. Godfrey likely to be a rotation/squad player at a lower half prem side. Is Lewis as good as Chilwell (who’s only a year older)? Nowhere near. Those two are 22 now - they might get a bit better but they aren’t teenagers. Will they ever be top half prem players? Not sure. 

Aarons is a couple of years younger. At a big club, he’d probably get a bit more cover so his defensive weaknesses might not get as exposed as they do here. His attacking ability might see him go on to play at a decent level.

Buendia is the only one really though who has looked like a premier league player. Maybe Krul as well (but he’s a bit older!). 

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24 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I wouldn’t necessarily say massively overrated. People just got a bit carried away last season. We were conceding goals for fun last year - skysports’ tables go back as far as 08/09 and only Wolves in 08/09 conceded over 50 goals (but only 52, so still less than us on 57). No other champion side conceded 50 or more and lots of sides only conceded in the thirties. 

 Potential is all well and good, but is Godfrey as good as Joe Gomez? Nowhere near - same age, Gomez is a back up player at Liverpool. Godfrey isn’t that standard. Godfrey likely to be a rotation/squad player at a lower half prem side. Is Lewis as good as Chilwell (who’s only a year older)? Nowhere near. Those two are 22 now - they might get a bit better but they aren’t teenagers. Will they ever be top half prem players? Not sure. 

Aarons is a couple of years younger. At a big club, he’d probably get a bit more cover so his defensive weaknesses might not get as exposed as they do here. His attacking ability might see him go on to play at a decent level.

Buendia is the only one really though who has looked like a premier league player. Maybe Krul as well (but he’s a bit older!). 

Some people on here definitely overrated our team. There was a sense we were basically a Premier League team playing in the Championship and the step up would be easy for most of our players.

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The values in the potential as Hogesar has pointed out. All the young players are FAR from the finished product, their potential is massive. Ben Godfrey just turned 22 a few weeks back, Chilwell will be turning 24 this year and has been playing in the Premier League since 2016 when he was 20 years old - Max has managed it at 18 so I see no reason why he won’t be even better than Chilwell is in 6 years time if he continues playing in the top division. Joe Gomez has only really properly kicked on this season and will be turning 23 in a few weeks so it goes to show what another season or two can do. Last year he wasn’t yet a top class defender, but in the space of just another year is starting to look world class. Again, no reason our young obvious talents can’t follow suit, the potential is there for most to see.

As Farke repeatedly says the younger players in particular will make mistakes as part of their growth and development. The rise for them all has been rapid. We should be incredibly proud of how many of the youngsters are coming through the academy, they may not all be quite Premier League ready yet, certainly in terms of consistency, but only my opinion, all will have successful Premier League careers bar any serious injury problems. 

Not sure how many of the kids we’ll be able to keep hold of should we likely go down, but if we were to get promoted again in 15 months time, and somehow had retained the services of most of them, then we’d likely have some serious talent by then with more experience who I have no doubt will be far more ready for this league. Joe Gomez is an excellent example of how, when the potential is there, just one more season can make all the difference.

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1 hour ago, Aggy said:

I wouldn’t necessarily say massively overrated. People just got a bit carried away last season. We were conceding goals for fun last year - skysports’ tables go back as far as 08/09 and only Wolves in 08/09 conceded over 50 goals (but only 52, so still less than us on 57). No other champion side conceded 50 or more and lots of sides only conceded in the thirties. 

Potential is all well and good, but is Godfrey as good as Joe Gomez? Nowhere near - same age, Gomez is a back up player at Liverpool. Godfrey isn’t that standard. Godfrey likely to be a rotation/squad player at a lower half prem side. Is Lewis as good as Chilwell (who’s only a year older)? Nowhere near. Those two are 22 now - they might get a bit better but they aren’t teenagers. Will they ever be top half prem players? Not sure. 

Aarons is a couple of years younger. At a big club, he’d probably get a bit more cover so his defensive weaknesses might not get as exposed as they do here. His attacking ability might see him go on to play at a decent level.

Buendia is the only one really though who has looked like a premier league player. Maybe Krul as well (but he’s a bit older!). 

Yet you miss Cantwell who is one of the most sort after young players in the UK at the moment ?

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If you can't bull about your own team then there is something amiss. We always see things that maybe those with a less of an allegiance fail to.

But the classification of our team in terms of those in previous years depends on those making it. In the sixty years I have actively supported this club, we have seen gifted individuals and very good squads. When I first went to matches we had quite a few local lads involved whereas now with the Academy setup, a lad from Scotland who comes through the ranks is seen as one of ours.

The current squad probably plays the closest style of football to the top teams from the same era as any from a previous era. We can play like ManCity but our players aren''t as good. But in a way, are fairly characterless.

The Saunders team, which no-one would compare in style to todays, had other attributes and certainly some real characters.

So while the OP may be right, I don't think they are overrated but maybe just another episode in is achieving some success and expecting it to go on to bigger things.

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42 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Yet you miss Cantwell who is one of the most sort after young players in the UK at the moment ?

Is he? I must have missed all the 40 million pound offers that have been coming in for him.

Everyone I speak to who support top teams think he looks like a luxury player who vanishes (or worse, is just bad) for huge chunks of games but then pops up and can create something out of nothing.

I wouldn’t put Cantwell anywhere near Buendia in terms of potential to be playing for a top 6 side in the future. 

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7 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Is he? I must have missed all the 40 million pound offers that have been coming in for him.

Everyone I speak to who support top teams think he looks like a luxury player who vanishes (or worse, is just bad) for huge chunks of games but then pops up and can create something out of nothing.

I wouldn’t put Cantwell anywhere near Buendia in terms of potential to be playing for a top 6 side in the future. 

Lol.

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16 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Lol.

 You think Cantwell is better than Buendia? Lol indeed.

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41 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Is he? I must have missed all the 40 million pound offers that have been coming in for him.

Everyone I speak to who support top teams think he looks like a luxury player who vanishes (or worse, is just bad) for huge chunks of games but then pops up and can create something out of nothing.

I wouldn’t put Cantwell anywhere near Buendia in terms of potential to be playing for a top 6 side in the future. 

Who is 'everyone' you speak to who supports top teams, and moreso, how much of our games do they watch to draw that conclusion? I can only go by media both in terms of MOTD etc as well as social media where generally premier league fans are also big fans of Cantwell.

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29 minutes ago, non-scoring strikers said:

To be fair this thread is all about Nodge fans overrating this squad so the guy suggesting Cantwell is better than Buendia is just falling in line.

It depends what constitutes ‘better’.

They both have their merits, neither is better in all aspects. Cantwell has scored several times against the best of the best, Emi hasn’t even a goal to his name in the Premier League. But we all know Emi is capable of the absolute sublime and absurd skill on his day.

Both excellent players, and I agree with Hogesar, a little read of other clubs message boards, Twitter, plus conversations I have with supporters of other clubs in the pub, outnumber interest and praise in Todd Cantwell than any other player by far, infact,  Max would be the second in line, although it was all about Pukki for the first few months. Just my experience of course, but I can’t imagine that’s hugely different for other City supporters, surely?

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6 hours ago, hogesar said:

How many times do people need to be told that its not all about current ability of our young players, it's their potential.

It's also the fact that at a big club they'd be around better players.

Why do you think all these big clubs are interested? Is every scout in world football over rating them?

Where's the proof that all these big clubs are interested. The club themselves said we received no offers or approches for any of them in January. Take the holy Trinity of Lewis, Godfrey and Aaron's. Couldn't see any of them getting in to any other premiership first team other than ours at present. They make up 3 quarters of the worst top flight defence I have ever witnessed from us.

I think we are kidding ourselves that clubs will take risks on them coming good at the sort of prices we are bandying around. And thats the thing its the club, then helped by cheap, unreserched, page filling journalism thats is really the only people talking  £30m plus for each one. 

I personally think we would struggle to get bids above £30m for all three.

Cue the list of things I don't understand and am not takimg in to consideration 

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9 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Where's the proof that all these big clubs are interested. The club themselves said we received no offers or approches for any of them in January. Take the holy Trinity of Lewis, Godfrey and Aaron's. Couldn't see any of them getting in to any other premiership first team other than ours at present. They make up 3 quarters of the worst top flight defence I have ever witnessed from us.

I think we are kidding ourselves that clubs will take risks on them coming good at the sort of prices we are bandying around. And thats the thing its the club, then helped by cheap, unreserched, page filling journalism thats is really the only people talking  £30m plus for each one. 

I personally think we would struggle to get bids above £30m for all three.

Cue the list of things I don't understand and am not takimg in to consideration 

I think you are naive, sorry. Fortunately Webber’s in charge of the bargaining for our club rather than yourself, and he will ensure these 3 future stars won’t be going for a paltry £30mil collectively. Max will get that alone, almost certainly. Incidentally, have you seen how much good English players go for in the Championship these days? 

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We are who we are. Overrated, yes. A joy to watch when it clicks, yes that too. 

The claims of 50 million + Pounds just waiting to be exploited by selling off our young players - fantasy. 

However, it might be interesting to compare our style in the Championship and results in the Premier League with Sheff Utd. 

 

I'll leave that to those who are interested. 

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