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TeemuVanBasten

All of our signings this season have been crap

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Just now, Badger said:

Thanks KC.

In essence this demonstrates the wisdom of not over-exposing ourselves financially. We spent so much money on sh1t during our last visit to the premiership the wages and transfer legacy of this was still in the accounts 3 years later, despite the player sales. 

It just goes to show why it is so essential not to repeat the same mistakes.

Except it wasnt. The debts were cleared, the wages of those mistakes were off the books, yet we would still have made a loss of north of £10m.

We ran a wage bill @ 73% of turnover, last season, which is actually quite low by most championship teams standards.

What last season told us was that without parachute payments, we either need to sell players every summer or we need to run a wage bill of under £20m (which is about what Ipswich did).

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4 minutes ago, Badger said:

Which of the players that our fellow "promotees" bought would you have liked at City? 

Our defence would undoubtedly have been better with Mings. I've generally been impressed by what I saw from Douglas Luiz as well.

 

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4 minutes ago, Indy said:

This hypothetical player being Alexis Maurice, turned us down flat, touted at 17 million, big wages and scored just once and made one  in 19 appearances this season I believe.....pretty rubbish really for a 17 million winger!

Just saying sometimes 17 million doesn’t guarantee any better than loaning!

But this would still be better value than the £40 million Newcastle are reported to have spent on Joelinton! Think, if we had been "more ambitious" we could have had him on a six year contract!

Fag packet maths suggest a figure of about £10 million per annum (fee + wages) - then we really would have to sell everything in sight!

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5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Our defence would undoubtedly have been better with Mings. I've generally been impressed by what I saw from Douglas Luiz as well.

 

Yes, definitely Mings, but I don't think that we stood a chance of getting him - he had already been on loan at Villa.

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

But this would still be better value than the £40 million Newcastle are reported to have spent on Joelinton! Think, if we had been "more ambitious" we could have had him on a six year contract!

Fag packet maths suggest a figure of about £10 million per annum (fee + wages) - then we really would have to sell everything in sight!

That’s the key for me, we’re two or three players light of being more competitive, CB of course but more important for me is the spine in midfield, we don’t have a dynamic ball winner Tettey is the closest to what we needed, unfortunately Amadou wasn’t the player we thought and McClean isn’t up to this level. The one player who might have been a brilliant signing for us would have been Shelvey! If we had the money.

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12 minutes ago, Badger said:

But this would still be better value than the £40 million Newcastle are reported to have spent on Joelinton! Think, if we had been "more ambitious" we could have had him on a six year contract!

Fag packet maths suggest a figure of about £10 million per annum (fee + wages) - then we really would have to sell everything in sight!

Its utterly pointless cherry picking signings that do or don't prove your point. We equally could have spent it on Maupay or Ings or Mooy.

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45 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Rupp has been far from crap.

Well he was far from everything this afternoon, so much so that I don't think he even got a mention on my stream. But then neither did Duda.

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5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, definitely Mings, but I don't think that we stood a chance of getting him - he had already been on loan at Villa.

I don't think Mings is all that defensively. With his baggage I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

Would our defence really be better recruiting from the only defence that has conceded more?

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Its utterly pointless cherry picking signings that do or don't prove your point. We equally could have spent it on Maupay or Ings or Mooy.

Sorry Kingo my point is on a player we were after an turned us down yet very poor this season........

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Sorry Kingo my point is on a player we were after an turned us down yet very poor this season........

We don't know if he'd have been poor with us. Maybe he'd have flourished under Farke and in our system. It's all hypothetical at this point. 

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12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I don't think Mings is all that defensively. With his baggage I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.

Would our defence really be better recruiting from the only defence that has conceded more?

The suggestion of Mings sums it up to me. £20 Million+ and i'm not convinced how much of a different position we'd be had we had him on board.

Added to that is the fact that we're using the benefit of hindsight a) he's been decent for Villa this season and b) we were decimated in CB earlier during the campaign.

Had Pukki have been injured (while Drimic was) would it be a £20m striker instead?

What about a long term injury to Krul while Fährmann was out? Was another GK required as well?

Not long before you start reaching Fulham / Villa levels of spending. 

 

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Im not sure Ming's has been any more decent for Villa than our defenders have been for us.

Would Villa really have conceded more without Ming's?

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2 hours ago, Upo said:

As for Duda, it's too early to make judgment about him. I've seen quality in the way he plays that makes you believe that's a £25M player. And now he put in a below-par performance... Unfortunately, we don't really have enough time to wait for that judgment. We need results now. We can only hope for Duda lives up to his abilities. There is no choice really.

Duda is a six month loan signing, so if he needs 6 months to settle in to English football like Vrancic did.... then it counts as a poor bit of business. Most of our overseas signings have needed time to bed in, so its strange that we felt Duda could make an instant impact. 

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2 hours ago, Upo said:

Rupp has been good. Much better than expected. 

Has he? Looks bang average to me.

He'll ultimately be judged on what he does next season, but I'm not expecting him to set the world alight. 

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Seriously,  when did our fans start ****ting their pants at the idea of buying players?

Nothin guarantees you stay up. But we failed to even remotely improve our starting xi and now we sit rock bottom. Is it so hard to believe that Webver, with a decent budget, could have found us a couple of players who'd have improved our chances?

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2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What a generalisation. 

I think we've been down this road before where we listed the signings and come to the conclusion that there's more good than bad.

Go on then, volunteer to do an updated list and we'll see if we agree?

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Go on then, volunteer to do an updated list and we'll see if we agree?

Oh god no. Always a pointless exercise.

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21 minutes ago, king canary said:

We don't know if he'd have been poor with us. Maybe he'd have flourished under Farke and in our system. It's all hypothetical at this point. 

Reality is KC we needed someone like Shelvey, someone with presence in midfield who can command it, knows the premiership and score a few too. But how much would he cost and would he have come to us? That’s the calibration to improve us!

we don’t have the financial muscle so we bought youngsters who will come into the team next year.

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It would all look so different if the goals hadn't dried up for Teemu, footy is a fickle business.

Edited by Van wink
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25 minutes ago, king canary said:

Seriously,  when did our fans start ****ting their pants at the idea of buying players?

Nothin guarantees you stay up. But we failed to even remotely improve our starting xi and now we sit rock bottom. Is it so hard to believe that Webver, with a decent budget, could have found us a couple of players who'd have improved our chances?

Not how I see it at all. 

Any signings would surely, if anything have improved our chances year this year thats not really in question. Our transfer business has proven to have been bad, we can all see it and Webber himself has admitted it. 

But if we are being honest most accepted it back in the summer and many thought our squad as it was would make a good fist of it. To now go back and criticise after the fact is cheap.

Under our current owners we don't have much money. Thats the reality, you just an hour ago commented how even without the premier league bonuses being paid out we would have lost around £10-15m last season. While I don't know how much profit we will make this season I could definitely imagine how after we put it against last years loses it only takes one failed signing and we've pretty much wiped our profit out.

I agree it may not have signed a dud at all, and I can't pretend our summer business has proven to be a success but when you weigh up the chance of improvement Vs the worst case scenario there's alot to lose.

Edited by Hillhead

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It's an aside, but since Tilson brought it up.

Posted this from the 2017 AGM before, highlights Webber transitioning the squad from an average of £28k a week to a target of £10k a week. Hence shopping at Aldi we were bound to get a few duds (Husband, Franke, Watkins). Assuming we go down again, we should be making a surplus from the parachute payments.

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24 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

It's an aside, but since Tilson brought it up.

Posted this from the 2017 AGM before, highlights Webber transitioning the squad from an average of £28k a week to a target of £10k a week. Hence shopping at Aldi we were bound to get a few duds (Husband, Franke, Watkins). Assuming we go down again, we should be making a surplus from the parachute payments.

image.png.41166bd628013c3446b0a966a1ace22e.png

 

OK so we make a big profit this season, then we make a surplus from parachute payments.

Then what? 

We just use that surplus to bankroll the club for 5 years in the Championship when the parachute payments run out?

Or do we at any stage invest that surplus in building a squad which may be capable of staying in the Premier League?

What people want to know is how we're going to come back up with a better equipped squad, and I'm assuming that Webber will attempt that by doing better business this summer.

My worry is that we struggle again to recruit with what we allocate for transfers and fail to improve, in which case is a surplus really a positive thing? 

The country could operate a budget surplus every year if we scrapped the NHS tomorrow, doesn't mean its a good thing as we'd then be a country with a third world health system. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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22 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Watkins May have been a dud but we got him for nothing and sold him for £1m, not a bad bit of business 

But we paid £1.5m for Ben Marshall and released him on a free transfer, and £1m for James Husband and will be releasing him at the end of the season, so we can't dine out on being able to flip Watkins for a million. 

Also no such thing as 'nothing', free agents command better contracts and bigger signing on fees, as do their agents. 

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4 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Does that make the update post title 'Apart from Byram and the the ones who haven't been given a chance our signings this season have been crap'?

 

Would have done, if it was me created the discussion! 

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

Its utterly pointless cherry picking signings that do or don't prove your point. We equally could have spent it on Maupay or Ings or Mooy.

No I disagree. It is the whole point. Spending larger sums of money does not guarantee success; nor does spending larger sums still. Buying football players is inherently risky - some work, some don't.

Having accepted that premise, it makes sense to minimise the risk. This requires not spending tens of millions on individual players (fee + contract) who may be successful but equally, may not. By gambling everything on the success of one or two players with inflated fees and wages, you don't only blow the funds that you have at present, but also for several years to come. We know this - we have lived it. 

BTW - none of the three players you cited went to a newly promoted club. All three went to clubs that had been in the PL for at least 2 seasons and therefore a better option for most players. 

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Rupp looks just competent and comfortable at PL level, which doesn't sound great. But Stiepermann, who is a matchwinning midfielder in the Championship, looks totally lacking at this level. In our situation that doesn't sound like a bad buy.

Not all eleven players need to be all-action match winners. If anything, that attitude has been part of our downfall this year.

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Rupp looks a tidy, 7 out of 10 championship player to me. Quite why the f**k he didn't shoot when we opened them up after 2 minutes yesterday is beyond me. A goal then and its a different game. I have nothing against him but I feel he has been given excessive game time at this level at the expense of more talented players.

Duda is beginning to get on my nerves. I don't want him given any more game time at the expense of our own players, he;s not giving us anything that we did not already have.

I want at least 2 from Emi, Vrancic and Onel to start on Friday with the two new additions on the bench. I also don't think McClean is good enough in central midfield at this level. 

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