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CANARYKING

Rupp and Duda

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Just now, All the Germans said:

I agree but for different reasons! I woudn't play Tettey either but I think he is physically but not technically able. He can run around, shield the defence, tackle etc but if the other team lets him have the ball, he won't do anything with it.  Our system relies on all players being technically very good with the ball and able to make progressive passes; Tettey may %wise be OK at passing but they are always nothing passes that I could make. I want to see a central midfield comprised of Rupp  or Trybull alongside Vrancic or McClean (or dare I say Leitner!). The three behind Pukki should be Cantwell, Duda and Buendia but Hernandez given >15 minutes at the end, against tiring legs.

When I say physically, I include speed and power in that. In close quarters Tettey is more than physically able, but getting into this position against superior EPL opposition is the problem. At this level, we need the CDM to be able to chase and harry - Tettey is only effective when the ball is sucked into a small area just in front of the back four. His lack of mobility gives the opposition too much time on the ball. 

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1 minute ago, Il Pirata said:

When I say physically, I include speed and power in that. In close quarters Tettey is more than physically able, but getting into this position against superior EPL opposition is the problem. At this level, we need the CDM to be able to chase and harry - Tettey is only effective when the ball is sucked into a small area just in front of the back four. His lack of mobility gives the opposition too much time on the ball. 

So do I. Unfortunately,  he is massively more mobile than Trybull - who in virtually every aspect other than the physical is a better CDM - Rupp however is at least as mobile but better with the ball and is why I would pick him in that position.

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I would suggest that all our problems of late (since the defensive injury crisis) are in midfield. Ultimately we're suffering because our midfielders seem incapable of kicking the ball into the goal; be it a surging run to finish off a counter attack, beating their man and tucking the ball home, or finding the top corner from 25 yards: our midfield aren't doing it. Duda and Rupp seem pretty much on a par with the rest in that regard. Playing nice football between the two boxes is all well and good, but our inevitable relegation is the result of a failure of our midfield to score goals.

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1 hour ago, Il Pirata said:

Well, we don't win enough games and we're bottom of the league. Tettey holds one of the most important positions in the team. That's not to blame our predicament on him, far from it, but Tettey is a fire fighter not a EPL matchwinner. 

There's a huge amount of sentiment included in peoples judgement of Tettey. We should have replaced him three years ago. 

To be fair we have tried to replace him, he's just ended up being better than our replacements. Combination of recruitment choices and for me, Tettey being coached and improving on his weaker areas and thus improving.

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Rupp is technically good and generally steady but a bit one paced.  He played yesterday cause he offered better protection for the full backs. That said he should have been subbed for Hernandez who offers real pace and Rupp should have done better in with one of the best chances of the game.

 

Duda was quiet yesterday although this was mainly due to Norwich being defensive and just generally trying to hold their lines rather than attack.

Tettys legs have gone but he still one of our best midfielders, hence his regular appearances. Like another poster says we have tried to replace him but no one has regularly stepped up to the plate. Tettys positional sense and the ability to keep pocession and passing simple are very under rated by many. His shot that hit the post shows what can happen if you have attempts at goal, cause Norwich are more often than not guilty of getting into good positions, over complicating things, thinking to much, not pulling the trigger and then the chance goes.

 

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Duda had a good debut against Bournemouth, but I do not think it is completely unfair to say both he and Rupp had poor games yesterday. 

Buendia took a fair bit of flack, but as others have said - in the 10 mins he was on the pitch he played in Pukki for an excellent opportunity. He is a player who tries to make things happen and with only 10 mins to force something, obviously a lot of what you try is not going to come off. 

He has to start the next game in my opinion. 

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7 minutes ago, HertsCanary93 said:

Duda had a good debut against Bournemouth, but I do not think it is completely unfair to say both he and Rupp had poor games yesterday. 

Buendia took a fair bit of flack, but as others have said - in the 10 mins he was on the pitch he played in Pukki for an excellent opportunity. He is a player who tries to make things happen and with only 10 mins to force something, obviously a lot of what you try is not going to come off. 

He has to start the next game in my opinion. 

I wouldn't be against Buendia starting the next game, but people have to look at all the evidence. Emi came on in the 67th minute at Newcastle - plenty of time to affect the outcome - and he didn't. 

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3 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I wouldn't be against Buendia starting the next game, but people have to look at all the evidence. Emi came on in the 67th minute at Newcastle - plenty of time to affect the outcome - and he didn't. 

Well by that logic - Rupp, Duda and Cantwell were on the pitch for three times as long and also didn't effect the outcome. Buendia was not fit enough to start that game and hence seems like an odd 20 mins to judge him on. 

When it comes down to it, Emi has twice as many assists this season as any other Norwich player. Without him, we don't look anywhere near as dangerous as with him. Emi and Cantwell are the two first names on the team sheet in my opinion. 

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21 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I wouldn't be against Buendia starting the next game, but people have to look at all the evidence. Emi came on in the 67th minute at Newcastle - plenty of time to affect the outcome - and he didn't. 

Surely the evidence is that on the majority of player stats this season in our team he is in 1st position and also only behind De Bruyne in the PL on chances created. I’ll take that evidence over 20 minutes against Newcastle 

Edited by JF

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6 minutes ago, HertsCanary93 said:

Well by that logic - Rupp, Duda and Cantwell were on the pitch for three times as long and also didn't effect the outcome. Buendia was not fit enough to start that game and hence seems like an odd 20 mins to judge him on. 

When it comes down to it, Emi has twice as many assists this season as any other Norwich player. Without him, we don't look anywhere near as dangerous as with him. Emi and Cantwell are the two first names on the team sheet in my opinion. 

In games we need to win Emi is an absolute must start. 

We've scored 24 goals all season, hes assisted about 30% of them. 

Equally Cantwell is the only player other than Pukki to have scored more than once this season. 

They have to be starting if we're serious about winning games.

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It's always a treat when so many people see things so differently. I see Rupp and Duda having tightened us up - it's meant the opposition are not destroying us in midfield as they were, and exposing our centre backs. The trouble is that has compromised us going forward, as we are creating fewer chances and missing the ones we do create. 

I expect that in away games we will start with them both, to stay in the game and try to win it later. That approach so nearly worked at Newcastle, and almost got us a point yesterday - we need it to work at Wolves. 

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8 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

It's always a treat when so many people see things so differently. I see Rupp and Duda having tightened us up - it's meant the opposition are not destroying us in midfield as they were, and exposing our centre backs. The trouble is that has compromised us going forward, as we are creating fewer chances and missing the ones we do create. 

I expect that in away games we will start with them both, to stay in the game and try to win it later. That approach so nearly worked at Newcastle, and almost got us a point yesterday - we need it to work at Wolves. 

I would totally agree with that assessment but if you are going to win a match you cannot afford to have both  players in those positions devoid of any attacking intent. All the creative work was left to Cantwell who was far more impressive. OK it was Liverpool and our tactics nearly gained a point, but where are the goals coming from. The players in question should have been replaced by Emi and Onel after 60 mins.

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49 minutes ago, king canary said:

In games we need to win Emi is an absolute must start. 

We've scored 24 goals all season, hes assisted about 30% of them. 

Equally Cantwell is the only player other than Pukki to have scored more than once this season. 

They have to be starting if we're serious about winning games.

Although I agree RE: needing to play Buendia because of the chances he creates, particularly for Pukki.

The fact that Buendia hasn't scored more than 1 goal is itself a failing. 

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27 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Although I agree RE: needing to play Buendia because of the chances he creates, particularly for Pukki.

The fact that Buendia hasn't scored more than 1 goal is itself a failing. 

That is true- one of the main issues has been getting goals from players who aren't Pukki.

I hadn't realised last season that Vrancic had 10 goals- pretty incredible considering he didn't start all that often. We've missed players like him, Marco and Onel chipping in with 3 or 4 goals each.

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Farke's comment yesterday was interesting. He said we won't be setting up in the remaining matches like against Liverpool. To me that meant Buendia for one will be playing.

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The only reason Duda stayed on the pitch yesterday is that we lost a substitute when Byram went off. Duda had a game of hide and seek with 27,000 people and won. 

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58 minutes ago, king canary said:

That is true- one of the main issues has been getting goals from players who aren't Pukki.

I hadn't realised last season that Vrancic had 10 goals- pretty incredible considering he didn't start all that often. We've missed players like him, Marco and Onel chipping in with 3 or 4 goals each.

I suspect if Vrancic had been picked more often this season he would’ve added to his tally. I can’t understand him being left out.

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3 hours ago, kingsway said:

Rupp is technically good and generally steady but a bit one paced.  He played yesterday cause he offered better protection for the full backs. That said he should have been subbed for Hernandez who offers real pace and Rupp should have done better in with one of the best chances of the game.

 

Duda was quiet yesterday although this was mainly due to Norwich being defensive and just generally trying to hold their lines rather than attack.

Tettys legs have gone but he still one of our best midfielders, hence his regular appearances. Like another poster says we have tried to replace him but no one has regularly stepped up to the plate. Tettys positional sense and the ability to keep pocession and passing simple are very under rated by many. His shot that hit the post shows what can happen if you have attempts at goal, cause Norwich are more often than not guilty of getting into good positions, over complicating things, thinking to much, not pulling the trigger and then the chance goes.

 

I'm sorry but can't agree regarding Tettey. We're comfortably bottom of the league - and he is playing a large amount of games in a crucial position. Last season Trybull and Vrancic did the job ahead of Tettey, and rightly so, they we're brilliant. 

Who have we actually signed as 'like for like' but potentially better Tettey? Amadou is the only player I can think of.

Tettey is too limited for this level. He sits deep and that's it. He only wins the battles that are played in a small quarter in front of his own penalty area. He can't do the same 10 yards further up which invites pressure. He hasn't got the speed or legs for it. We wouldn't accept this of any other player without criticism. Tettey benefits from  loyalty sentiment.   

Edited by Il Pirata
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2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

It's always a treat when so many people see things so differently. I see Rupp and Duda having tightened us up - it's meant the opposition are not destroying us in midfield as they were, and exposing our centre backs. The trouble is that has compromised us going forward, as we are creating fewer chances and missing the ones we do create. 

I expect that in away games we will start with them both, to stay in the game and try to win it later. That approach so nearly worked at Newcastle, and almost got us a point yesterday - we need it to work at Wolves. 

I tend to agree with this sgncfc. We have been tighter and with a bit of luck...Equally, I agree we have to be tight to stand any chance away from home and perhaps hit teams when they become over exposed. 

The trouble is that Emi is such an amazing talent that it seems wasteful not to use him...

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Tettey was one of our highest rated players yesterday. Actually he was second highest behind Hanley.

Someone else said Todd doesn't do enough defensive work yet he had more successful tackles than any other player on the pitch yesterday. 

As always, people will see what they want to see to a degree.

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28 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

I'm sorry but can't agree regarding Tettey. We're comfortably bottom of the league - and he is playing a large amount of games in a crucial position. Last season Trybull and Vrancic did the job ahead of Tettey, and rightly so, they we're brilliant. 

Who have we actually signed as 'like for like' but potentially better Tettey? Amadou is the only player I can think of.

Tettey is too limited for this level. He sits deep and that's it. He only wins the battles that are played in a small quarter in front of his own penalty area. He can't do the same 10 yards further up which invites pressure. He hasn't got the speed or legs for it. We wouldn't accept this of any other player without criticism. Tettey benefits from  loyalty sentiment.   

I'm sorry I must have been watching a different game,

Either that or I am inventing memories of him pressing their centre backs ahead of McLean - who was also excellent - & not far behind Pukki whenever possible, falling back into midfield & breaking up attacks, harrying their midfield, finally dropping back when we were under the cosh (which was most of the 2nd half). He also had our best shot of the game.

We were under the cosh & defending deep for so much of the game because we were playing Liverpool, possibly the best team in the world, not because of Alex's failings. We kept them out until the 72nd minute. Tettey was an essential part of the performance, & I strongly believe that with Trybull & Vrancic in midfield we'd have been overrun after about 15 minutes.

To read some people here you'd get the impression that Alex is some League 1 clogging oaf who cannot pass for love nor money, has zero footballing ability, cannot run at more than a snail's pace & never creates anything. The only reason he keeps getting picked is some sort of myopia on behalf of successive managers. 

Not what I see.

 

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Rupp no better or worse than the likes of McClean or Vrancic.

Duda will looks better when Buendia and Cantwell are with him, think those three are so good it pushes other teams back a bit.

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Just imagine though, for a minute, what this team could do next year in the Championship. Just imagine that all the "wanted" players agree to give us another year and even Duda enjoys himself so much that he wants to stay......sorry, I'll wake up now.

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1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Just imagine though, for a minute, what this team could do next year in the Championship. Just imagine that all the "wanted" players agree to give us another year and even Duda enjoys himself so much that he wants to stay......sorry, I'll wake up now.

....even 'if' the majority of players dud want to stay its as much about whether they have the mentality to do it all over again in the championship.

I remember the season after we were relegated under Worthington...looking at the spine of the team...Green,Davenport,Safri..Ashton and McKenzie...Huckerby still on the wing...thinking we would waltz the league. They simply werent motivated to do it again.

 

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4 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I'm sorry I must have been watching a different game,

Either that or I am inventing memories of him pressing their centre backs ahead of McLean - who was also excellent - & not far behind Pukki whenever possible, falling back into midfield & breaking up attacks, harrying their midfield, finally dropping back when we were under the cosh (which was most of the 2nd half). He also had our best shot of the game.

We were under the cosh & defending deep for so much of the game because we were playing Liverpool, possibly the best team in the world, not because of Alex's failings. We kept them out until the 72nd minute. Tettey was an essential part of the performance, & I strongly believe that with Trybull & Vrancic in midfield we'd have been overrun after about 15 minutes.

To read some people here you'd get the impression that Alex is some League 1 clogging oaf who cannot pass for love nor money, has zero footballing ability, cannot run at more than a snail's pace & never creates anything. The only reason he keeps getting picked is some sort of myopia on behalf of successive managers. 

Not what I see.

 

I agree tetteys not everyones cup of tea but he has been good this season and deserves to play ,but at cdm and not defence .😄

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1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Just imagine though, for a minute, what this team could do next year in the Championship. Just imagine that all the "wanted" players agree to give us another year and even Duda enjoys himself so much that he wants to stay......sorry, I'll wake up now.

I'll tell you what will happen, we will let in another two goals per game because Herr Farke won't address our poor defensive situation. 

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5 hours ago, Il Pirata said:

I'm sorry but can't agree regarding Tettey. We're comfortably bottom of the league - and he is playing a large amount of games in a crucial position. Last season Trybull and Vrancic did the job ahead of Tettey, and rightly so, they we're brilliant. 

Who have we actually signed as 'like for like' but potentially better Tettey? Amadou is the only player I can think of.

Tettey is too limited for this level. He sits deep and that's it. He only wins the battles that are played in a small quarter in front of his own penalty area. He can't do the same 10 yards further up which invites pressure. He hasn't got the speed or legs for it. We wouldn't accept this of any other player without criticism. Tettey benefits from  loyalty sentiment.   

Trybull has not been as good as Tetty this season which is why Trybulls not in the team, - Not an opinion but fact!

 

I agree that Vrancic should have featured more cause he can open up defences and can score! 

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On 16/02/2020 at 09:00, Making Plans said:

So Buendia was rubbish for the whole 7 or 8 minutes he was on the pitch, according to some.

However, we only made two defence splitting passes all game that resulted in goal scoring opportunities and he made one of them.

Yes he comes with risks and he makes errors but he is always capable of pulling something out of the bag that creates a chance.

Capable players they may be but I haven't yet seen that quality yet from either Duda or Rupp.

Agree, Emi just see things that other do not. That through pass was brilliant, no one else can offer such vision.

 

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